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Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year

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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:27 AM

Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


I made this point earlier and no one wanted to believe me.......most libs here probably still will not believe it...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2541876

Note: I know BH, OR, Bilt and Vebuilt will all poopoo breibart as resource but they are only 

PS: Whit I am hungry for a big steak from J Kellys.....yum
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Posted: 6/10/2014 12:03 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


For anyone who cares.this link actually works
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2541876
Some people wonder why we help animals in need.  We don't understand why they wonder..

Last edited 6/10/2014 12:12 PM by DoreBurt

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Posted: 6/10/2014 12:22 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


Thanks Burt for making it easier those challenged by the copy and paste commandwink
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:24 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


No problem.  Just doing my job.  However, I would suggest that if you really want folks who normally disagree with you, count me among them,  to read the linked material, you might want to post links that actually work. Just sayin'
cjdore wrote: Thanks Burt for making it easier those challenged by the copy and paste commandwink
Some people wonder why we help animals in need.  We don't understand why they wonder..

Last edited 6/10/2014 1:25 PM by DoreBurt

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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:50 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 



DoreBurt wrote: No problem.  Just doing my job.  However, I would suggest that if you really want folks who normally disagree with you, count me among them,  to read the linked material, you might want to post links that actually work. Just sayin'
cjdore wrote: Thanks Burt for making it easier those challenged by the copy and paste commandwink
No problem Burt as I disagree with most of what they and you say also. If we can stay civil and discus issues this coffee shop will be a friendly one.

And remember guns do not kill people,,,,,,mentally ill people with guns kill people
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Posted: 6/10/2014 2:34 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 



cjdore wrote: I made this point earlier and no one wanted to believe me.......most libs here probably still will not believe it...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2541876

Note: I know BH, OR, Bilt and Vebuilt will all poopoo breibart as resource but they are only 

PS: Whit I am hungry for a big steak from J Kellys.....yum

Well, you'll have to take yourself.  In reference to the bet, I was speaking specifically of the Gallup data and from your comment, "I was referring to the chart that I posted that ended in yr 2011. When this gallup chart is updated I say 2012 will have more ownership than 47%,"  I thought it was clear that you were, too.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 2:35 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


Guys, I know we're not supposed paste full articles, but I want to paste the whole text of this article to see if someone can spot the flaw in cjdore's logic. And no.... it has nothing to do with Dead Breitbart!

It's pretty awesome. Enjoy.

Article: 

The slow drop-off of households owning guns has ended, rebounding in a new poll to 39 percent, up five points from the latest survey.

A new Economist/YouGov poll said that nearly 4 in 10 American households have guns, with 56 percent claiming not to have one.

That is a sizable uptick from the four-decade drop in household ownership charted by the authoritative General Social Survey. It pegged household gun ownership at 50 percent in the 1970s, 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s, and down to 35 percent in the 2000s. The latest 2012 statistics put the share of households with guns at 34 percent.

The next General Social Survey is set for release this year. It is funded by the government through the National Science Foundation. Considered more reliable than phone surveys, gun advocates say that surveys like those conducted by Economist/YouGov are more timely and are capturing the shift in the nation's view of personal weapons.

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The rebound comes as many are rushing to buy guns before states put more limits on ownership. It also reveals a gun-buying trend that started last year when President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, Senate Democrats and Michael Bloomberg, the former New York City mayor, pushed for widespread gun control, new background checks and the elimination of sales of semi-automatic rifles, the most popular style of rifle sold.

The Economist/YouGov survey revealed a partisan split among gun owners. Some 30 percent of households with guns are Democrat and 49 percent are Republican.

Last edited 6/10/2014 2:54 PM by BILTMORE

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Posted: 6/10/2014 2:46 PM

cjdore = BS hack! 


cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

Last edited 6/10/2014 3:13 PM by BILTMORE

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Posted: 6/10/2014 3:45 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 



cjdore wrote: And remember guns do not kill people,,,,,,mentally ill people with guns kill people
Most accurate thing I've ever read from you. I'm sure we would disagree with some of the ways to address it, but this is what it really comes down to. Universal access to mental health care is a significant component of addressing it though, no doubt.

Last edited 6/10/2014 3:47 PM by ORDore

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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:12 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 



ORDore wrote:
cjdore wrote: And remember guns do not kill people,,,,,,mentally ill people with guns kill people
Most accurate thing I've ever read from you. I'm sure we would disagree with some of the ways to address it, but this is what it really comes down to. Universal access to mental health care is a significant component of addressing it though, no doubt.

I don't agree with cjdore's statement as written, unless we want to say that anybody who kills somebody is, by definition, "mentally ill."  It might be true of the mass shootings that get so much publicity, although I'm not even convinced of that, but I really don't think it's true of, say, a typical marital murder-suicide. At least, the murderer I knew in that situation hadn't shown signs of mental illness; he was just p'oed that his wife wanted a divorce.

As for universal access to mental health care, yes, I'm on board with that but will add that it needs to include medications, too.  The boyfriend of a young relative of mine had been officially diagnosed but when he couldn't afford the medication, he obviously stopped taking it, then went to a pawn shop, bought a gun, drove to a rest stop on the interstate and killed himself -- making sure that his girlfriend would believe that it was all her fault.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:14 PM

Re: cjdore = BS hack! 



BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:24 PM

Re: cjdore = BS hack! 



VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:24 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 



VandyWhit wrote: I don't agree with cjdore's statement as written, unless we want to say that anybody who kills somebody is, by definition, "mentally ill."  It might be true of the mass shootings that get so much publicity, although I'm not even convinced of that, but I really don't think it's true of, say, a typical marital murder-suicide. At least, the murderer I knew in that situation hadn't shown signs of mental illness; he was just p'oed that his wife wanted a divorce.

As for universal access to mental health care, yes, I'm on board with that but will add that it needs to include medications, too.  The boyfriend of a young relative of mine had been officially diagnosed but when he couldn't afford the medication, he obviously stopped taking it, then went to a pawn shop, bought a gun, drove to a rest stop on the interstate and killed himself -- making sure that his girlfriend would believe that it was all her fault.
I do think a more accurate phrase would be "people with guns kill people." 

I'm not in a position to judge, but have a hard time believing there isn't mental illness involved when someone shoots their spouse because they're p'oed the were served divorce papers. 

Medication, absolutely. Thank you for adding that. I would add that most people who commit suicide are not as determined as the young man you mentioned. Most don't plan it out. And a gun in the nightstand makes a successful suicide attempt FAR FAR FAR more likely than a bottle of pills in the cabinet. Certainly there is a significant portion of the population that doesn't empathize with those who have (successfully or unsuccessfully) attempted suicide, but I do. And it's a huge problem in our society, to include an element of our society that is quite often propped up for political gain (veterans). 

Of course, I think every American should have access to comprehensive health care, but you probably knew that. wink

Last edited 6/10/2014 4:31 PM by ORDore

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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:46 PM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif

Last edited 6/10/2014 4:49 PM by cjdore

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Posted: 6/10/2014 6:39 PM

Re: Gun Ownership Up 5% last Year 


More RWNJ gun owners.....lmao

www.drgo.us/
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Posted: 6/11/2014 8:19 AM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif
Uh no. A different survey would have a different sampling of people. The Pew survey and the GSS survey mirrored the same downward trajectory but had different numbers at the same points in time. One was, at times 3-5% higher than the other, but generally behaving in the same manner.  So if you compare Pew 2011 to GSS 2011, you can't rate the difference as "a trend," obviously because of the same year, but also because they're different polls. You can only compare the results of one poll from year to year to have trend.  Your article - NO MATTER WHERE IT ORIGINATED AND NO MATTER WHO REPOSTED IT - is comparing GSS 2012 (the lowest reported  percentage of gun ownership) to Economist 2013 (a higher reported percentage) and saying "look! a 5% increase in gun ownership!"  

That's not how it works, math major!

What you should be tracking is how this year's economist survey compares to last year's economist survey.  That's your trend. Or the soon-to-be released GSS with the last GSS - that would also show a trend. 

And even if Economist goes up and all the other polls go up too, then bravo! Take a bow! have yourself a cookie!  But remember, none of us - and I mean none of us - refuted, doubted, spoke against, or accepted your prediction of a one-year rise in gun ownership. Why? Because a one-year rise during a 40 year slump - really ain't that shocking to see on a graph. And frankly, I'm not sure what it is that you would be celebrating, even if GSS, Pew and Gallup also track upward. They would still be at historically low levels. The tail end of a 4-decade drop!

Since it appears that you're now accepting self reporting polls as the truth, then you must accept the premise that more guns don't make society safer. 

And while they do assume this is a prelude to the expected results of GSS, they ALSO say that gun advocates prefer the Economist style of poll - as in - it's method is decidedly different and would therefore reflect a HIGHER percentage of gun ownership.  If the methods are different, and gun advocates don't like GSS, then why bother comparing the two?  I'll tell you why - because it exaggerates a spike that may not even exist.

Last edited 6/11/2014 8:27 AM by BILTMORE

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Posted: 6/11/2014 9:41 AM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



BILTMORE wrote:
cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif
Uh no. A different survey would have a different sampling of people. The Pew survey and the GSS survey mirrored the same downward trajectory but had different numbers at the same points in time. One was, at times 3-5% higher than the other, but generally behaving in the same manner.  So if you compare Pew 2011 to GSS 2011, you can't rate the difference as "a trend," obviously because of the same year, but also because they're different polls. You can only compare the results of one poll from year to year to have trend.  Your article - NO MATTER WHERE IT ORIGINATED AND NO MATTER WHO REPOSTED IT - is comparing GSS 2012 (the lowest reported  percentage of gun ownership) to Economist 2013 (a higher reported percentage) and saying "look! a 5% increase in gun ownership!"  

That's not how it works, math major!

What you should be tracking is how this year's economist survey compares to last year's economist survey.  That's your trend. Or the soon-to-be released GSS with the last GSS - that would also show a trend. 

And even if Economist goes up and all the other polls go up too, then bravo! Take a bow! have yourself a cookie!  But remember, none of us - and I mean none of us - refuted, doubted, spoke against, or accepted your prediction of a one-year rise in gun ownership. Why? Because a one-year rise during a 40 year slump - really ain't that shocking to see on a graph. And frankly, I'm not sure what it is that you would be celebrating, even if GSS, Pew and Gallup also track upward. They would still be at historically low levels. The tail end of a 4-decade drop!

Since it appears that you're now accepting self reporting polls as the truth, then you must accept the premise that more guns don't make society safer. 

And while they do assume this is a prelude to the expected results of GSS, they ALSO say that gun advocates prefer the Economist style of poll - as in - it's method is decidedly different and would therefore reflect a HIGHER percentage of gun ownership.  If the methods are different, and gun advocates don't like GSS, then why bother comparing the two?  I'll tell you why - because it exaggerates a spike that may not even exist.
Bilt Bilt Bilt....let me start with ....the sky is blue....nit azure. I simply posted this survey because it came out before the GSS, Pew and Gallup updates. I did not say it replaces these surveys Sociology major. I simply posted this to show a major upward trend that I am well aware is occurring. Deny it if you like but you will soon see it on your favorite polls. A 3-5% increase would be statiscally significant depending on sample size as this would be rougly a 10% increase in a single year. You can blame the fear that your gun ban nuts have generated and are complicit in this buy up of arms and ammo.

I absolutely deny that more guns do not make society safer. We currently have 89 firearms in this country for every 100k of people. This is the highest in the world and yet our crime rate has continued to decline. I further posted the microstudy of Kennesaw, GA. Over 20  years ago, they required every household to have a firearm. Crime subsequently declines 89 %!!!! Your dog doesn't hunt....period...end of story.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 10:14 AM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif
Uh no. A different survey would have a different sampling of people. The Pew survey and the GSS survey mirrored the same downward trajectory but had different numbers at the same points in time. One was, at times 3-5% higher than the other, but generally behaving in the same manner.  So if you compare Pew 2011 to GSS 2011, you can't rate the difference as "a trend," obviously because of the same year, but also because they're different polls. You can only compare the results of one poll from year to year to have trend.  Your article - NO MATTER WHERE IT ORIGINATED AND NO MATTER WHO REPOSTED IT - is comparing GSS 2012 (the lowest reported  percentage of gun ownership) to Economist 2013 (a higher reported percentage) and saying "look! a 5% increase in gun ownership!"  

That's not how it works, math major!

What you should be tracking is how this year's economist survey compares to last year's economist survey.  That's your trend. Or the soon-to-be released GSS with the last GSS - that would also show a trend. 

And even if Economist goes up and all the other polls go up too, then bravo! Take a bow! have yourself a cookie!  But remember, none of us - and I mean none of us - refuted, doubted, spoke against, or accepted your prediction of a one-year rise in gun ownership. Why? Because a one-year rise during a 40 year slump - really ain't that shocking to see on a graph. And frankly, I'm not sure what it is that you would be celebrating, even if GSS, Pew and Gallup also track upward. They would still be at historically low levels. The tail end of a 4-decade drop!

Since it appears that you're now accepting self reporting polls as the truth, then you must accept the premise that more guns don't make society safer. 

And while they do assume this is a prelude to the expected results of GSS, they ALSO say that gun advocates prefer the Economist style of poll - as in - it's method is decidedly different and would therefore reflect a HIGHER percentage of gun ownership.  If the methods are different, and gun advocates don't like GSS, then why bother comparing the two?  I'll tell you why - because it exaggerates a spike that may not even exist.
Bilt Bilt Bilt....let me start with ....the sky is blue....nit azure. I simply posted this survey because it came out before the GSS, Pew and Gallup updates. I did not say it replaces these surveys Sociology major. I simply posted this to show a major upward trend that I am well aware is occurring. Deny it if you like but you will soon see it on your favorite polls. A 3-5% increase would be statiscally significant depending on sample size as this would be rougly a 10% increase in a single year. You can blame the fear that your gun ban nuts have generated and are complicit in this buy up of arms and ammo.

I absolutely deny that more guns do not make society safer. We currently have 89 firearms in this country for every 100k of people. This is the highest in the world and yet our crime rate has continued to decline. I further posted the microstudy of Kennesaw, GA. Over 20  years ago, they required every household to have a firearm. Crime subsequently declines 89 %!!!! Your dog doesn't hunt....period...end of story.
Wrong again, dear. 

Gun ownership has continued to decline for 40 years.  Every source, including yours, reflects that. And overall crime has been declining for 20 years within that slump. Yet you're trying to claim that this 20-year decline in crime is because of a one-year rise in gun ownership that HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET. 

Just admit it. The data you posted doesn't support your claim. It actually really hurts your claim. If Economist is the only source gun nuts will trust, then compare their paltry 39% to the 2000's, the '90's, the 80's, and '70s.  It's an historically low level of gun ownership. 

You're also having trouble keeping track of your own BS. 
You have argued that these other polls maybe skewed downwards because of public policy and national attitudes towards guns. Now you're reversing course and saying that pubic policy and national attitudes are driving gun ownership up! Which is it?  

You claim that these less favorable polls are skewed because people don't want to self report their gun status. Now you're cherry picking  the LOWEST the same polls to fabricate an argument that you can spot a trend up to a higher new poll. Which is it? Are GSS, pew, and Gallup legit or aren't they? 

We have the highest rate of gun ownership among any advanced nation (any nation we would want to emulate). And we have  20x the rate of gun crime among those same nations. Violent crime is unacceptably high here. 

Kennesaw Georgia? That's all you got?  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Reply | Quote

Posted: 6/11/2014 10:14 AM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif
Uh no. A different survey would have a different sampling of people. The Pew survey and the GSS survey mirrored the same downward trajectory but had different numbers at the same points in time. One was, at times 3-5% higher than the other, but generally behaving in the same manner.  So if you compare Pew 2011 to GSS 2011, you can't rate the difference as "a trend," obviously because of the same year, but also because they're different polls. You can only compare the results of one poll from year to year to have trend.  Your article - NO MATTER WHERE IT ORIGINATED AND NO MATTER WHO REPOSTED IT - is comparing GSS 2012 (the lowest reported  percentage of gun ownership) to Economist 2013 (a higher reported percentage) and saying "look! a 5% increase in gun ownership!"  

That's not how it works, math major!

What you should be tracking is how this year's economist survey compares to last year's economist survey.  That's your trend. Or the soon-to-be released GSS with the last GSS - that would also show a trend. 

And even if Economist goes up and all the other polls go up too, then bravo! Take a bow! have yourself a cookie!  But remember, none of us - and I mean none of us - refuted, doubted, spoke against, or accepted your prediction of a one-year rise in gun ownership. Why? Because a one-year rise during a 40 year slump - really ain't that shocking to see on a graph. And frankly, I'm not sure what it is that you would be celebrating, even if GSS, Pew and Gallup also track upward. They would still be at historically low levels. The tail end of a 4-decade drop!

Since it appears that you're now accepting self reporting polls as the truth, then you must accept the premise that more guns don't make society safer. 

And while they do assume this is a prelude to the expected results of GSS, they ALSO say that gun advocates prefer the Economist style of poll - as in - it's method is decidedly different and would therefore reflect a HIGHER percentage of gun ownership.  If the methods are different, and gun advocates don't like GSS, then why bother comparing the two?  I'll tell you why - because it exaggerates a spike that may not even exist.
Bilt Bilt Bilt....let me start with ....the sky is blue....nit azure. I simply posted this survey because it came out before the GSS, Pew and Gallup updates. I did not say it replaces these surveys Sociology major. I simply posted this to show a major upward trend that I am well aware is occurring. Deny it if you like but you will soon see it on your favorite polls. A 3-5% increase would be statiscally significant depending on sample size as this would be rougly a 10% increase in a single year. You can blame the fear that your gun ban nuts have generated and are complicit in this buy up of arms and ammo.

I absolutely deny that more guns do not make society safer. We currently have 89 firearms in this country for every 100k of people. This is the highest in the world and yet our crime rate has continued to decline. I further posted the microstudy of Kennesaw, GA. Over 20  years ago, they required every household to have a firearm. Crime subsequently declines 89 %!!!! Your dog doesn't hunt....period...end of story.

The most recent Economist/YouGov poll on personal gun ownership shows a drop from 39% (the January poll cited in in the OP)  to 36% . . . 

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_...ns_20140324.pdf
Reply | Quote

Posted: 6/11/2014 10:21 AM

Re: cjdore is an honest poster and proud American 



VandyWhit wrote:
cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
cjdore wrote:
BILTMORE wrote:
VandyWhit wrote:
BILTMORE wrote: cj, here's your post from the other thread where you made a wager that nobody accepted. 
Now you're posting the 2014 RESULTS FROM A DIFFERENT poll and 1) trying to argue that represents a trend 2) that it wins the bet you were making (which as you can see, isn't even the bet you were making and which none of us accepted, but rather graciously, and honestly pointed out had already been lost.)


cjdore wrote: 
I reposted your survey because it was more inclusive for personal gun ownership, whether it is in home, garage, shed, or car. I personally think this better tells the story of American gun ownership. While yo may see 2011 as a blip on the radar, I see it as a tide turning shift to gun ownership as BO tried to use his pen and phone to swallow up all available ammo ( Might look into how much ammo he purchased for Homeland Security). I think you will see gun ownership continue to rise well past the survey last date of 2011. I will bet you a dinner at Jimmy Kellys that the 2012 gun ownership # will be greater than the 2011. if you continue to throw insults and demeaning names I cannot to continue to civilly debate as I am doing here. Jimmy Kellys? Your call. Loser pays

In fact, whit posted the Gallup poll that showed that gun ownership in 2012 was less than 2011, and 2013 was less than 2012. 
But a different poll? two years removed? and you're trying to shame someone into a bet they never accepted, and you didn't even make?   That's really lame dude. Cheating, lying... your credibility is getting pretty suspect.

I'm willing to write the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. Of course I think I'm right, but I don't see any point in beating our heads against a wall over it.

That's cool. 

Do you think it was a misunderstanding that Breitbart and cj took an economist/Yougov poll and compared it to a GSS poll to suggest a "trend?"  I can't imagine that the good folks at "the dead fella's" website would be blind to that flaw.  And cj? Well we all know what HE studied and where, so HE would understand that comparing the results from two different surveys in two different years to suggest a trend is like... well... a child playing with a loaded gun.
Bilt...you are too much.....Breitbart site REPOSTED the original article from another source. In the article do they not say that the larger survey will come out later this year and that this is just a prelude to the expected results?

Just wait to the next Gallup survey and you all will see what I am already aware of in the ole US of A97_Emoticonldeadhorse.gif
Uh no. A different survey would have a different sampling of people. The Pew survey and the GSS survey mirrored the same downward trajectory but had different numbers at the same points in time. One was, at times 3-5% higher than the other, but generally behaving in the same manner.  So if you compare Pew 2011 to GSS 2011, you can't rate the difference as "a trend," obviously because of the same year, but also because they're different polls. You can only compare the results of one poll from year to year to have trend.  Your article - NO MATTER WHERE IT ORIGINATED AND NO MATTER WHO REPOSTED IT - is comparing GSS 2012 (the lowest reported  percentage of gun ownership) to Economist 2013 (a higher reported percentage) and saying "look! a 5% increase in gun ownership!"  

That's not how it works, math major!

What you should be tracking is how this year's economist survey compares to last year's economist survey.  That's your trend. Or the soon-to-be released GSS with the last GSS - that would also show a trend. 

And even if Economist goes up and all the other polls go up too, then bravo! Take a bow! have yourself a cookie!  But remember, none of us - and I mean none of us - refuted, doubted, spoke against, or accepted your prediction of a one-year rise in gun ownership. Why? Because a one-year rise during a 40 year slump - really ain't that shocking to see on a graph. And frankly, I'm not sure what it is that you would be celebrating, even if GSS, Pew and Gallup also track upward. They would still be at historically low levels. The tail end of a 4-decade drop!

Since it appears that you're now accepting self reporting polls as the truth, then you must accept the premise that more guns don't make society safer. 

And while they do assume this is a prelude to the expected results of GSS, they ALSO say that gun advocates prefer the Economist style of poll - as in - it's method is decidedly different and would therefore reflect a HIGHER percentage of gun ownership.  If the methods are different, and gun advocates don't like GSS, then why bother comparing the two?  I'll tell you why - because it exaggerates a spike that may not even exist.
Bilt Bilt Bilt....let me start with ....the sky is blue....nit azure. I simply posted this survey because it came out before the GSS, Pew and Gallup updates. I did not say it replaces these surveys Sociology major. I simply posted this to show a major upward trend that I am well aware is occurring. Deny it if you like but you will soon see it on your favorite polls. A 3-5% increase would be statiscally significant depending on sample size as this would be rougly a 10% increase in a single year. You can blame the fear that your gun ban nuts have generated and are complicit in this buy up of arms and ammo.

I absolutely deny that more guns do not make society safer. We currently have 89 firearms in this country for every 100k of people. This is the highest in the world and yet our crime rate has continued to decline. I further posted the microstudy of Kennesaw, GA. Over 20  years ago, they required every household to have a firearm. Crime subsequently declines 89 %!!!! Your dog doesn't hunt....period...end of story.

The most recent Economist/YouGov poll on personal gun ownership shows a drop from 39% (the January poll cited in in the OP)  to 36% . . . 

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_...ns_20140324.pdf
Boom!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's official!  
Less guns = less crime!
I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you like your steak, Whit?  Bloody as hell or bronto crispy (like cj's argument).
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