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At this point I don't really care what the Constitution

Posted: 12/18/2012 12:12 PM

At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


or 2nd Amendment say.

Just amend the damn thing; get the guns (or most of them) and have the remainder licensed, registered and equipped with GPS locators.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:32 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


Or,

you could just move to Egypt. There you won't have to worry about people owning weapons (among other things).
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:05 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: Or,

you could just move to Egypt. There you won't have to worry about people owning weapons (among other things).
Seriously?  Do you really think Egypt would be a better place if its citizens had access to assault weapons?  If you are not making a causal connection between Egypt's gun control laws and its societal problems, then what point were you trying to make?  I'm guessing this was just a xenophobic barb aimed at the OP rather than addressing his or her underlying point.

Getting back on topic and borrowing from a question that many have asked - including Jim Boeheim after his 900th win - why do we need assault weapons?  To me, that's that has to be the threshold question, right?  Why can I legally buy a weapon for which the sole purpose is the ability to inflict mass casualties?  After that, we can have a more well-reasoned debate on other types of firearms.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:18 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


The point I was trying to make was that if the poster is so afraid of our constitutional rights in this country, he could move to another one where the current government is moving at record pace to eliminate as many rights and freedoms as is possible in the shortest amount of time. You know, so he could experience the alternative to living in this society.

Of course I hope he is okay with doing without other freedoms as well.

Besides, to hear an American say they 'don't give a damn what the Constitution says....' just shows me an American who doesn't appreciate this country and the rights he already has.

Last edited 12/18/2012 1:20 PM by VUGearhead

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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:23 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: The point I was trying to make was that if the poster is so afraid of our constitutional rights in this country, he could move to another one where the current government is moving at record pace to eliminate as many rights and freedoms as is possible in the shortest amount of time. 
The 2nd Amendment isn't absolute. You don't have a "Constitutional right" to own any kind of weapon you want -- that's the country we live in. Period.

So says Antonin Scalia. 

Like most rights, the right se­cured by the Sec­ond Amend­ment is not un­lim­ited...noth­ing in our opin­ion should be taken to cast doubt on long­stand­ing pro­hi­bi­tions on the pos­ses­sion of firearms by felons and the men­tal­ly ill, or laws for­bid­ding the car­ry­ing of firearms in sen­si­tive places such as schools and gov­ern­ment build­ings, or laws im­pos­ing con­di­tions and qual­i­fi­ca­tions on the com­mer­cial sale of arms. We al­so rec­og­nize an­other im­por­tant lim­i­ta­tion on the right to keep and car­ry arms —pro­hibit­ing the car­ry­ing of ‘dan­ger­ous and un­usual weapons.’ ”
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:28 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: The point I was trying to make was that if the poster is so afraid of our constitutional rights in this country, he could move to another one where the current government is moving at record pace to eliminate as many rights and freedoms as is possible in the shortest amount of time. You know, so he could experience the alternative to living in this society.

Of course I hope he is okay with doing without other freedoms as well.

Besides, to hear an American say they 'don't give a damn what the Constitution says....' just shows me an American who doesn't appreciate this country and the rights he already has.
He said he does not give a damn what the Second Amendment says.  That's a bit different from the picture you're trying to paint of his remarks.  Regardless, self-righteous outrage aside, Bruin hit the nail on the head.  You do not have the freedom to own any type of weapon of your choosing.  Of course, I'm not going to tell you to go to a country where you would enjoy that freedom because that would be silly.

With that out of the way, what is your response to my (Boeheim's?) question?  Why do you or any other citizen (excluding, of course, members of the military or law enforcement in the course of their jobs) need an automatic weapon?  Does that need outweigh the danger of that weapon to American society as a whole?

Last edited 12/18/2012 1:28 PM by Dore2004

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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:47 PM

Re: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


I am not at all afraid of our "Constitutional Rights".  I am (no longer) afraid of our "Constitutional Right" to a voting populace of only white males.  Why? One might ask.

Well, it's because it was deemed that the Constitution had it wrong, so it was amended (twice) to allow virtually all citizens to vote.

There is nothing any more sacred about the 2nd Amendment than there is/was about the original limitation on voting rights.

Just amend the damn thing.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 2:33 PM

Re: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


What I always find amusing about this debate is that the gun nuts scream "Don't change the Constitution!" when the very right to bear arms itself was an amendment to the Constitution.
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  • fldore
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Posted: 12/18/2012 5:00 PM

Re: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


"At this point I don't really care what the Constitution [says]"

spoken like a true Liberal ;)
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Posted: 12/18/2012 9:30 PM

Re: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



fldore wrote: "At this point I don't really care what the Constitution [says]"

spoken like a true Liberal ;)
Damn straight. Liberals are free thinkers.  Conservatives are anti-intellectual slaves.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 10:15 PM

Re: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



fldore wrote: "At this point I don't really care what the Constitution [says]"

spoken like a true Liberal ;)
That's a nasty thing to call a democratic socialist.

Did you really expect me to be ashamed because you called me....omg.....a TRUE Liberal?

Last edited 12/18/2012 10:33 PM by DCDore

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Posted: 12/18/2012 10:57 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. If that's what you call 'free thinking', thanks, but no thanks. You can keep it.
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Posted: 12/19/2012 12:48 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. If that's what you call 'free thinking', thanks, but no thanks. You can keep it.
Yeah, like when liberals try to amend the Constitution to prevent gays from marrying, ban women having abortions, require schools to teach a certain religion and creationism, ban porn, fight the legalization of pot...

Oh wait.

Last edited 12/19/2012 12:49 PM by VandyBruin

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Posted: 12/19/2012 12:52 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VandyBruin wrote:
VUGearhead wrote: Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. If that's what you call 'free thinking', thanks, but no thanks. You can keep it.
Yeah, like when liberals try to amend the Constitution to prevent gays from marrying, ban women having abortions, require schools to teach a certain religion and creationism, ban porn, fight the legalization of pot...

Oh wait.
Can we get past the name calling and get back to the question that the pro-gun crowd has yet to answer?

What is the purpose of an assault weapon?  Is there any positive purpose that outweighs the danger posed by the weapon?
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:24 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VandyBruin wrote:
VUGearhead wrote: Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. If that's what you call 'free thinking', thanks, but no thanks. You can keep it.
Yeah, like when liberals try to amend the Constitution to prevent gays from marrying, ban women having abortions, require schools to teach a certain religion and creationism, ban porn, fight the legalization of pot...

Oh wait.
Wait, so you oppose an amendment that would prevent the deaths of MILLIONS of unborn children, but you would support an amendment that limits civil liberties over the senseless deaths of 20?

Does not compute.

BTW, show me the US Constitutional amendments for these issues (since this the realm we are talking about). States have always had the liberty to further restrict such things.
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:28 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote:
VandyBruin wrote:
VUGearhead wrote: Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. If that's what you call 'free thinking', thanks, but no thanks. You can keep it.
Yeah, like when liberals try to amend the Constitution to prevent gays from marrying, ban women having abortions, require schools to teach a certain religion and creationism, ban porn, fight the legalization of pot...

Oh wait.
Wait, so you oppose an amendment that would prevent the deaths of MILLIONS of unborn children, but you would support an amendment that limits civil liberties over the senseless deaths of 20?

Does not compute.

Move those goalposts! Change that argument!
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:30 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


It would be a lot easier if your position didn't change from topic to topic. Do you value life, or don't you? Do you value liberty or don't you?

Between the two topics, you flop on both counts.
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Posted: 12/19/2012 2:06 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: It would be a lot easier if your position didn't change from topic to topic. Do you value life, or don't you? Do you value liberty or don't you?

Between the two topics, you flop on both counts.
What are your thoughts on my questions that are actually related to the underlying topic rather than partisan bickering?  I'm asking because I'm legitimately curious, not because I want to trap you or bicker with you about whether Santa is more likely to deliver presents to liberals or conservatives.
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Posted: 12/19/2012 2:30 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 



VUGearhead wrote: It would be a lot easier if your position didn't change from topic to topic. Do you value life, or don't you? Do you value liberty or don't you?

Between the two topics, you flop on both counts.
Pot, kettle.

Above you wrote:

Liberals think they know what's best for people, better than the people themselves. 

In response, I rattled off a bunch of issues where conservatives, especially Republicans, want the state to interfere in people's lives.

Your response to that was to basically yell "baby killer."

Then you accuse me of flipping. Amazing.
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Posted: 12/19/2012 2:41 PM

RE: At this point I don't really care what the Constitution 


The purpose of an assault weapon is what the purchaser/owner intends for it to be used for. It could be sport, hobby, home defense or anything else the owner thinks of. A firearm is just a tool. That's like asking what a hammer or an axe are for. It depends.

A positive purpose for owning the weapon? Absolutely, and they are the possible reasons I mentioned above for owning an assault weapon. As for whether those outweigh the negative aspects (positives vs. danger), that is a subjective inquiry that everyone has an opinion on. There are over 310 million firearms in private hands in this country and only about 0.0001% of them are involved in gun violence in any given year. Now, I know you are not fond of comparing firearm posession to other 'dangerous' posessions because of your perception about the purpose of guns versus those other items. But that rate of incidence is pretty good or at least comparable to other 'dangerous posessions' that kill people in any given year. Could that be improved on? Certainly. So could choking hazards be prevented if we all blenderized our meals before consuming them.
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