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RE: Tea party's days are numbered

Posted: 11/12/2012 10:24 PM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Well, if defending innocent life isn't the high road, it's still looking down on the position you've set yourself in.

My position on life has nothing to do with the party I may or may not have voted for. I'm not asking anyone to thank god for anything. What I SAID was terminating an unborn life, which was the result of rape (or not), is punishing the wrong party. You say a life which begins as a result of rape, is WORTHLESS....no better than garbage and should be thrown out as such. Sorry, no high road there.

So, just because I value life, I have no brain, no soul and am a chauvinistic religious zealot? You should really listen to yourself. It's kind of sad.

I looked up Obama's economic plan. He hasn't mentioned entitlement cuts in over a year and a half. But his 27 point plan has plenty of taxes and deduction eliminations.

Your bastardization of GOP rhetoric is pretty reprehensible. It's amazing how comfortable you seem to be doing it.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:39 PM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


I don't give a fake terd who you voted for.  
I'm talking about the part of the GOP platform that you still can't distance yourself from, that 88% of America hates: that women should have no right to a legal abortion even if they were raped.

Some GOP members have gone even further to say women should thank god for giving them the gift of life. You're still desperately trying to gloss over the ugliness of that fact by tying it to some divine providence argument and simply taking the side of the unborn fetus.  I did not say that those unborn fetuses should be cast away like garbage. I believe the mother should be able to choose whether or not she wants to risk her life and her future because she was violently impregnated against her will.  

Please, let me know the next time you want to go to a hospital and tell a rape victim she's a baby killer just because she would rather not carry to term and raise her rapist's child.  I'd love to be there and watch her kick your *** up and down the hospital ward. If you really hold that view, then you have no brain, no soul and are potentially a chauvinistic zealot.

And I'll pray for that withered little soul because I read on a message board once that we should be grateful for all the prayers we get. Are you grateful? 

You're the one who sought out this argument. Now you're on the wrong side of an offensive, odious position and you're trying to backstroke out of the deep end. You look ridiculous and so does your party. (and don't give me that horse poo of "duh, not my party , I don't know who I voted for, maybe I'm a libertarian doop a doo.") Don't be such a baby. Be a man and own up to your beliefs.  Because if you're NOT a Republican, then the amount of time you spend trying (and failing) to defend their policies on this message board is pretty freakin' creepy. 

"Obama hasn't mentioned entitlement cuts in a year and a half" - you mean since he mentioned it... a year ago:
 Obama Deficit Plan Cuts Entitlements and Raises Taxes on Rich ....  

Your bastardizing of democratic policy over and over and over again is totally reprehensible, while my semi accurate portrayal of GOP policy calling rape as a gift from a god "a sacrament" meant only as an antidote to your socialist blarney is only  "pretty reprehensible" So I win.

Seriously, c'mon back and keep posting about how women should be grateful for their rape babies.  It's awesome and I hope the Republican party keeps it on their party platform and bs artists like you keep trying to explain it.  They'll/you'll never win another election.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 2:33 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



BILTMORE wrote: I don't give a fake terd who you voted for.  

GOOD! Cause like I said, my stance on life has nothing to do with that. To quote the Disney movie Aladdin: "HE CAN BE TAUGHT!"

I'm talking about the part of the GOP platform that you still can't distance yourself from, that 88% of America hates: that women should have no right to a legal abortion even if they were raped.

Wrong again. You're getting pretty good at this BS thing. My position is NOT THE GOP party position. See here for a refresher
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=189&f=2204& t=10060088


Some GOP members have gone even further to say women should thank god for giving them the gift of life. You're still desperately trying to gloss over the ugliness of that fact by tying it to some divine providence argument and simply taking the side of the unborn fetus.

I am not trying to gloss over the ugliness of rape or incest IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM! GET THAT? What I am pointing out is the ugliness of discarding human life, any life, regardless of the circumstances of it's origin.

 I did not say that those unborn fetuses should be cast away like garbage. I believe the mother should be able to choose whether or not she wants to risk her life and her future because she was violently impregnated against her will.  

Incredibly, this is a point we nearly agree on. I also believe in choice. Just because I believe one of the choices is wrong does not mean I am against giving women that freedom. People have to have the freedom to choose right from wrong. It's not my place to take that away. SEE? Not GOP.

Please, let me know the next time you want to go to a hospital and tell a rape victim she's a baby killer just because she would rather not carry to term and raise her rapist's child.  I'd love to be there and watch her kick your *** up and down the hospital ward. If you really hold that view, then you have no brain, no soul and are potentially a chauvinistic zealot.

Well, given the verbiage you have used on here, that would be more along your sense of style and tact. I would do my best to convince her that her child, regardless of how it came to be, deserves to live, and it would not ruin her life to give her baby that chance. There are other options than abortion that preserve life without ruining the mother's future. You are jumping to incorrect conclusions, as usual.

And I'll pray for that withered little soul because I read on a message board once that we should be grateful for all the prayers we get. Are you grateful?

Yep, I'm grateful that you have provided this opportunity to show how shallow and callous your respect for life truly is, so I can show how valuing life is far more meaningful. 

You're the one who sought out this argument. Now you're on the wrong side of an offensive, odious position and you're trying to backstroke out of the deep end.

Not at all. I'm an excellent swimmer. And you obviously can't see it, but it's not me who's on the wrong side of this argument. And I'm perfectly content with where I am.

You look ridiculous and so does your party. (and don't give me that horse poo of "duh, not my party , I don't know who I voted for, maybe I'm a libertarian doop a doo.") Don't be such a baby. Be a man and own up to your beliefs.  Because if you're NOT a Republican, then the amount of time you spend trying (and failing) to defend their policies on this message board is pretty freakin' creepy.  

Boy, you must be taking BS rhetoric classes from hoyal. That was the spitting image of something he might say!  I'd congratulate you on your studies if I thought it was a worthwhile endeavor. FYI, I am a registered Republican, and I do not vote along party lines like some sheeple.

"Obama hasn't mentioned entitlement cuts in a year and a half" - you mean since he mentioned it... a year ago:
 Obama Deficit Plan Cuts Entitlements and Raises Taxes on Rich ....  

WOW! ONLY 14 MONTHS OLD INSTEAD OF 18 MOS?!!! That's so fresh it still smells like the pasture it was scooped out of. $580 Billion over 10 years is a joke compared to the level of cutbacks we really need. It's so trivial that it borders on laughable.

Your bastardizing of democratic policy over and over and over again is totally reprehensible, while my semi accurate portrayal of GOP policy calling rape as a gift from a god "a sacrament" meant only as an antidote to your socialist blarney is only  "pretty reprehensible" So I win.

Didn't know it was a race. But if you want to rest on your laurels of name-calling, hate-mongering, and all around disrespect for life, be my guest. You've earned it!

Seriously, c'mon back and keep posting about how women should be grateful for their rape babies.  It's awesome and I hope the Republican party keeps it on their party platform and bs artists like you keep trying to explain it.  They'll/you'll never win another election.
Bilt, look on the bright side. You've just made my prayer list. No hard feelings.

Last edited 11/13/2012 2:38 AM by VUGearhead

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Posted: 11/13/2012 6:24 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



BILTMORE wrote: I don't give a fake terd who you voted for.  
I'm talking about the part of the GOP platform that you still can't distance yourself from, that 88% of America hates: that women should have no right to a legal abortion even if they were raped.

Some GOP members have gone even further to say women should thank god for giving them the gift of life. You're still desperately trying to gloss over the ugliness of that fact by tying it to some divine providence argument and simply taking the side of the unborn fetus.  I did not say that those unborn fetuses should be cast away like garbage. I believe the mother should be able to choose whether or not she wants to risk her life and her future because she was violently impregnated against her will.  

Please, let me know the next time you want to go to a hospital and tell a rape victim she's a baby killer just because she would rather not carry to term and raise her rapist's child.  I'd love to be there and watch her kick your *** up and down the hospital ward. If you really hold that view, then you have no brain, no soul and are potentially a chauvinistic zealot.

And I'll pray for that withered little soul because I read on a message board once that we should be grateful for all the prayers we get. Are you grateful? 

You're the one who sought out this argument. Now you're on the wrong side of an offensive, odious position and you're trying to backstroke out of the deep end. You look ridiculous and so does your party. (and don't give me that horse poo of "duh, not my party , I don't know who I voted for, maybe I'm a libertarian doop a doo.") Don't be such a baby. Be a man and own up to your beliefs.  Because if you're NOT a Republican, then the amount of time you spend trying (and failing) to defend their policies on this message board is pretty freakin' creepy. 

"Obama hasn't mentioned entitlement cuts in a year and a half" - you mean since he mentioned it... a year ago:
 Obama Deficit Plan Cuts Entitlements and Raises Taxes on Rich ....  

Your bastardizing of democratic policy over and over and over again is totally reprehensible, while my semi accurate portrayal of GOP policy calling rape as a gift from a god "a sacrament" meant only as an antidote to your socialist blarney is only  "pretty reprehensible" So I win.

Seriously, c'mon back and keep posting about how women should be grateful for their rape babies.  It's awesome and I hope the Republican party keeps it on their party platform and bs artists like you keep trying to explain it.  They'll/you'll never win another election.
All those supposed xtians should thank God that Obama was elected.  That means (by their "reasoning") it was all part of God's big "plan" and fully intended by he/she/it to happen all along.  They might be embarrassed that they resisted his/her/it's plan and voted for the wrong guy though.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 7:30 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Hoyal penned "All those supposed xtians should thank God that Obama was elected."

Really, hoyal? Why is that?

You may be right, that it was part of God's big plan. Neither you nor I can know that. But that doesn't necessarily make it an endorsement by God, in terms of he was the right choice and the others were wrong. After all, it was part of God's plan that Herod was king when JC came onto the scene. So I guess the killing of the innocents was all part of the plan too. Doesn't mean it was an endorsement of Herod's rule.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 7:51 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



BILTMORE wrote: I don't give a fake terd who you voted for.  
I'm talking about the part of the GOP platform that you still can't distance yourself from, that 88% of America hates: that women should have no right to a legal abortion even if they were raped.

Some GOP members have gone even further to say women should thank god for giving them the gift of life. You're still desperately trying to gloss over the ugliness of that fact by tying it to some divine providence argument and simply taking the side of the unborn fetus.  I did not say that those unborn fetuses should be cast away like garbage. I believe the mother should be able to choose whether or not she wants to risk her life and her future because she was violently impregnated against her will.  

Please, let me know the next time you want to go to a hospital and tell a rape victim she's a baby killer just because she would rather not carry to term and raise her rapist's child.  I'd love to be there and watch her kick your *** up and down the hospital ward. If you really hold that view, then you have no brain, no soul and are potentially a chauvinistic zealot.

And I'll pray for that withered little soul because I read on a message board once that we should be grateful for all the prayers we get. Are you grateful? 

You're the one who sought out this argument. Now you're on the wrong side of an offensive, odious position and you're trying to backstroke out of the deep end. You look ridiculous and so does your party. (and don't give me that horse poo of "duh, not my party , I don't know who I voted for, maybe I'm a libertarian doop a doo.") Don't be such a baby. Be a man and own up to your beliefs.  Because if you're NOT a Republican, then the amount of time you spend trying (and failing) to defend their policies on this message board is pretty freakin' creepy. 

"Obama hasn't mentioned entitlement cuts in a year and a half" - you mean since he mentioned it... a year ago:
 Obama Deficit Plan Cuts Entitlements and Raises Taxes on Rich ....  

Your bastardizing of democratic policy over and over and over again is totally reprehensible, while my semi accurate portrayal of GOP policy calling rape as a gift from a god "a sacrament" meant only as an antidote to your socialist blarney is only  "pretty reprehensible" So I win.

Seriously, c'mon back and keep posting about how women should be grateful for their rape babies.  It's awesome and I hope the Republican party keeps it on their party platform and bs artists like you keep trying to explain it.  They'll/you'll never win another election.
I don't particularly want to get into the middle of this, except to make 2 points;

1. I thought, based on the debates, that the Republican position was to allow abortion in the case of rape and incest (even though Ryan disagreed with this personally, he "yielded" to the party platform).
2. Although the article you linked to stated that the president planned to cut $X from entitlement spending, did he say how he planned to do that? I've heard frequently that he plans to cut reimbursement amounts to doctors and hospitals (hmmm), is that the only specific? For social security, for example, does he propose to raise the retirement age, reduce COLA adjustments, etc.?
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Posted: 11/13/2012 8:03 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Geez, from what I could find on the GOP platform, their plank does not differentiate for rape or incest. They do not want public funds going to programs or organizations that promote abortion. They do talk about trying to apply the 14th Amendment to the unborn, which would essentially outlaw abortion. I'm not necessarily for that, but that is what I found.

As for Obama's plan, I haven't seen anything more specific about his plans for entitlements other than making 'adjustments', with some amounts listed for Medicare and Medicaid. He is as vague on this as he accused Romney of being on his economic plan.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 8:27 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



VUGearhead wrote: Geez, from what I could find on the GOP platform, their plank does not differentiate for rape or incest. They do not want public funds going to programs or organizations that promote abortion. They do talk about trying to apply the 14th Amendment to the unborn, which would essentially outlaw abortion. I'm not necessarily for that, but that is what I found.


I guess I was thinking about Romney's position as opposed to the party platform. Thanks for the clarification. I don't know how I feel about abortion in the case of rape/incest. If one feels that human life is "sacred" and begins at conception, it only follows that a life is a life is a life. Still, that is an extreme position (not that it's wrong, just that it's extreme). I don't know how I feel about this issue, other than conflicted.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 9:49 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Gearhead,

You've completely lost your way in this thread.

This thread started as an indictment of the tea party and its deleterious effect on the republican party. 

The reasons given were the demographic shift of the country to increased diversity AND a tendency of pary adherents to insist that pregnancy by rape is not a condition for which a woman can choose an abortion. The latter is a position echoed by the Republican Party's offical platform where they make no exception for abortion (which would include rape or incest a point even you acknowledge.)

When presented with the shifting demographics facts, you stated this:

VUGearhead wrote: So, Revurb, are you saying we are headed toward a socialist, nanny-state that the white man will have to pay for because democrats have figured out who to pay off and who to stick with the bill?


That response is a load of frontier jibberish that is both extreme and offensive and it completely avoided the rest of the thread about the rape/abortion issue.

So I lobbed up a statement that... yeah is not a perfect one to one summary of the issue, but is in no way more offensifve than the actually claiming that pregnancy by rape is a giftg from god.

If rape as a sacrament helps you gain perspective on the offensiveness of your words and your beliefs then I am quite comfortable with that. If not, I really don't care about your nuanced distinctions between your beliefs and the republican party official platform.

Bottom line, shifting demographics and overwhelming public revulsion to the rape/abortion and similar issues will keep hurtin the republican party as it relates to the Tea Party.

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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:04 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



BILTMORE wrote:

Gearhead,

You've completely lost your way in this thread.

This thread started as an indictment of the tea party and its deleterious effect on the republican party. 

The reasons given were the demographic shift of the country to increased diversity AND a tendency of pary adherents to insist that pregnancy by rape is not a condition for which a woman can choose an abortion. The latter is a position echoed by the Republican Party's offical platform where they make no exception for abortion (which would include rape or incest a point even you acknowledge.)

When presented with the shifting demographics facts, you stated this:

VUGearhead wrote: So, Revurb, are you saying we are headed toward a socialist, nanny-state that the white man will have to pay for because democrats have figured out who to pay off and who to stick with the bill?


That response is a load of frontier jibberish that is both extreme and offensive and it completely avoided the rest of the thread about the rape/abortion issue.

So I lobbed up a statement that... yeah is not a perfect one to one summary of the issue, but is in no way more offensifve than the actually claiming that pregnancy by rape is a giftg from god.

If rape as a sacrament helps you gain perspective on the offensiveness of your words and your beliefs then I am quite comfortable with that. If not, I really don't care about your nuanced distinctions between your beliefs and the republican party official platform.

Bottom line, shifting demographics and overwhelming public revulsion to the rape/abortion and similar issues will keep hurtin the republican party as it relates to the Tea Party.

I disagree, even though I don't necessarily agree with Gearhead's arguments.  Instead, I think the fact that he is engaging you so passionately without much of a leg to stand on when it comes to the central point of this thread demonstrates why the Tea Party is going nowhere.  The Tea Party likely will continue to shrink, but I think the intensity of its remaining followers will only increase.  If certain segments of white voters are angry now, I don't expect that to change as the demographics of the nation shift away from their own demographic.  While I think the GOP would be wise to shift away from these voters long-term, I don't think it has a viable coalition without them at the present.  

The Tea Party may have cost the GOP the White House and the Senate, but it also helped them hold onto the House (with an assist from gerrymandering).  I also think the Tea Party remains strong at the state level in many states, particularly in the South.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:23 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Bilt, I appreciate the respectful response. I regret the tone that our dialogue had devolved to. And you are absolutely correct that the thread topic had deviated from Revurb's original post. But that wasn't my doing. As a matter of fact, going back through this thread, your's was the first post that mentioned rape/abortion. It wasn't demographics AND rape. I am happy to discuss demographics as it relates to the GOP and Tea Party. My response to revurb was posted before you brought the rape/abortion issue into it as an inflammatory counterpoint. I don't think I have ignored it since then.

You're right in that my post wasn't mild. But it wasn't about rape/abortion either.

So, if you want to get back to demographics, let's.

D2K4, didn't the Tea Party originally start as a grass roots movement to bring fiscal responsibility (and only that) back to the Republican Party and DC? When it first started I don't recall them even mentioning conservative christian values. That social issues got glommed onto it after the fact is one of the reason's the TP isn't looked on very highly right now. That was probably due to the dearth of any rigid organization. The tea party, in my mind, is all but done as an influential movement on the national scene, since it has been effectively absorbed into the GOP (with the subsequent and unfortunate lurch to the right on non-fiscal issues).

My passionate engagement of Biltmore on choice issues, as I said before, has less to do with my political offiliation than it does with my faith. It is quite dis-heartening to hear you say my position (on abortion) is so hopeless. Are advocates for the unborn so despised today? What does that say about our current society's position on the value of human life?
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:40 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 



VUGearhead wrote: Bilt, I appreciate the respectful response. I regret the tone that our dialogue had devolved to. And you are absolutely correct that the thread topic had deviated from Revurb's original post. But that wasn't my doing. As a matter of fact, going back through this thread, your's was the first post that mentioned rape/abortion. It wasn't demographics AND rape. I am happy to discuss demographics as it relates to the GOP and Tea Party. My response to revurb was posted before you brought the rape/abortion issue into it as an inflammatory counterpoint. I don't think I have ignored it since then.

You're right in that my post wasn't mild. But it wasn't about rape/abortion either.

So, if you want to get back to demographics, let's.

D2K4, didn't the Tea Party originally start as a grass roots movement to bring fiscal responsibility (and only that) back to the Republican Party and DC? When it first started I don't recall them even mentioning conservative christian values. That social issues got glommed onto it after the fact is one of the reason's the TP isn't looked on very highly right now. That was probably due to the dearth of any rigid organization. The tea party, in my mind, is all but done as an influential movement on the national scene, since it has been effectively absorbed into the GOP (with the subsequent and unfortunate lurch to the right on non-fiscal issues).

My passionate engagement of Biltmore on choice issues, as I said before, has less to do with my political offiliation than it does with my faith. It is quite dis-heartening to hear you say my position (on abortion) is so hopeless. Are advocates for the unborn so despised today? What does that say about our current society's position on the value of human life?
You keep disavowing any political affiliation, yet the majority of your posts reflect a rather clear affiliation for one party over the other.  Regardless, your position on abortion does appear rather hopeless in modern American society.  

I think it says a a lot about our current society placing a greater value on women and embracing science over theocracy.  The map below is taken from wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt, but the places that share your views on abortion typically are not places I associate with freedom or respect for women.  Not surprisingly, many of them are the least secular nations around too.  

   Legal on request.
   Legal for rape, maternal life, health, mental health, socioeconomic factors, and/or fetal defects.
   Illegal with exception for rape, maternal life, health, fetal defects, and/or mental health.
   Illegal with exception for rape, maternal life, health, and/or mental health.
   Illegal with exception for maternal life, health, and/or mental health.
   Illegal with no exceptions.
   Varies.
   No information.
File:Abortion Laws.svg
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:50 AM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


I don't disavow my party offiliation (GOP). But I have to keep stating that my position is not strict GOP party line. Yes, I am clearly offiliated with conservative political ideology. No, I am not a Republican pundit.

As for the map, legally I would align with the yellow nations. Religiously, I'd be living in Africa.

Also, I don't equate my pro-life position with a lack of respect for women or a restriction of their freedom.  It's just the decision-making, and the consequences thereof, need to be made sooner than 24 weeks post-conception. After conception, who bears the brunt of their decision? An innocent life. For me, it's a 'sins of the father' issue, something our legal system has never condoned.

Last edited 11/14/2012 12:09 PM by VUGearhead

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Posted: 11/29/2012 9:46 PM

RE: Tea party's days are numbered 


Gearhead, 

Minor correction and one more point. 

The original post does in fact mention the "rape" candidates. I did not feel I was the one that opened that door.

Also, at some point you characterized my position as being insensitive to the baby or wanting to cast them aside. I do not wish either. I want the woman who's been raped to have the choice.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my views and for sharing your own.

I appreciate both.
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