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Re: Most important pre-election question

Posted: 11/6/2012 1:38 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 


You're looking at it from a flawed perspective. Our economy is based on voluntary exchanges in free competitve marketplaces. It is more virtuous for people to make their own consensual economic choices than to have government force them into whatever economic decisions. That's why we should have a bias towards freedom, rather than the absurd notion that arbitrary government spending (on non core government services) is somehow most virtuous and serving the public good.

People are better off when free to make their own choices.
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Posted: 11/6/2012 1:53 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 


Some economist think our unemployment numbers have remained high because obama's expanded disability, unemployment and food stamp benefits provide a disincentive to work and increase labor costs.
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Posted: 11/6/2012 2:34 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 



vebiltdervan wrote:
geeznotagain wrote: ...the amount of government assistance provided today (expressed as a pct of GDP) far surpasses anything in the Eisenhower years.
Do we have a link that shows this? My operating hypothesis would be that, to the extent it's true, it's a direct reflection of the Great Recession still. If recovery continues, it will drop back down to the same level as Obama's predecessor.
Here are the web addresses for 2 charts. Sorry, I don't know how to do a hyperlink. I know, I know, I'm a reactionary, stubborn  whatever. One of my daughters-in-law teaches computer courses at UAB, so you'd think I would know how to do this stuff, but alas, not so.

cosmoscon.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/welfare-vs-p overty.jpg

this one goes back to the late 1950's, and is pretty current

www.cato.org/pubs/pas/PA694.pdf

this one is only from 1965-2002; see Figure 5, about 25% into the report

I'm sure there are other charts/data out there on the internet as well.
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Posted: 11/6/2012 2:55 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 



doreking wrote: You're looking at it from a flawed perspective. Our economy is based on voluntary exchanges in free competitve marketplaces. It is more virtuous for people to make their own consensual economic choices than to have government force them into whatever economic decisions. That's why we should have a bias towards freedom, rather than the absurd notion that arbitrary government spending (on non core government services) is somehow most virtuous and serving the public good.

People are better off when free to make their own choices.

Yes, yes, we know. We've all heard this several (hundred) times. Again, I assume  you're talking about the laissez faire principle of free markets, since most free market economist don't believe a market can truely be free unless the state owns all the resources (i.e. socialism which we all know you are against).

Your previous economist, Milto argued that the governments role in a depression was to stimulate the money supply. The Feds  (under Obama as under any other president ) have done just that. Yes, and correct, the people had NO choice, the government did that. 

Again, please provide me with an economist that states that the economy would be better off, based only on "the freedom of choice".

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Posted: 11/6/2012 7:22 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 


geeznotagain wrote:
vebiltdervan wrote:
geeznotagain wrote: ...the amount of government assistance provided today (expressed as a pct of GDP) far surpasses anything in the Eisenhower years.
Do we have a link that shows this? My operating hypothesis would be that, to the extent it's true, it's a direct reflection of the Great Recession still. If recovery continues, it will drop back down to the same level as Obama's predecessor.
I saw such a chart, and I can probably find it again if need be, but I thought that it would be self-evident that the $ spent on "welfare" (and it may be difficult coming to a common definition of what welfare is) would have spiked post "Great Society". Certainly, it has spiked further after the financial crisis of 2008, but even so, I think there was a huge rise with LBJ, that never dropped back appreciably.

Regarding welfare, I would think only stuff that is "means tested" would count. That would exclude social security (even though to some extent it is an income redistribution vehicle) and Medicare.
No, no. I don't doubt what you've stated (especially with regard to the Eisenhower comparison & the upsurge with LBJ); I expect all or almost all of the trends are, as you say, self-evident. I just feel like it would be a useful website to bookmark & refer back to, over the next 2-4 years, to evaluate the on-going trends, at least from the Clinton years onward.

If you can locate it, that would be great. If not, don't worry about it. It simply piqued my curiosity.

[Edit: Never mind!--I just saw your post above with the 2 URLs. Much obliged!]
They laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian. They're not laughing now. -Bob Monkhouse (1928-2003)

Last edited 11/6/2012 7:30 PM by vebiltdervan

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Posted: 11/6/2012 7:40 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 


Although many find The Heritage Foundation suspect many of the charts are ftom CBO and OBM.  www.heritage.org/research/.../federal-spending-by- the-numbers-201
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Posted: 11/6/2012 7:54 PM

Re: Most important pre-election question 


Certainly not up to the impeccable standards of the NY Times.
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