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No way to spin the news...it hurts

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Posted: 8/15/2014 6:26 PM

No way to spin the news...it hurts 


Besides the loss of experience and talent, in the short-term (this coming season) we're also an injury away from having only 9 scholarship players on the active roster.  Given Josh Henderson's history, that's not out of the question.  And while I'm not downplaying the potential contributions from a pair of walk-ons, this could be yet another season when we are seriously undermanned (although hopefully not to the extent we were last year).

Longer term, though, the impact really hurts in 2015-16.  That's the season I had pegged for a return to the NCAA tournament and to national prominence.  Having a seasoned, senior point guard--the hallmark of most of CKS' really good teams--was the key ingredient for that.  

The freshmen who will acquire a lot of playing experience this season are very talented, and Nolan Cressler will hopefully be a solid addition for next year.  But today's news means we're all going to need a lot of patience, for this season and perhaps longer.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 6:36 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


Sorry to be a negative Neal but the annual jumping off the ship has become too predicable for me. The practice of CKS to either recruit the wrong type of kids or to run them off has reached the point of no return. The last several years have been a disaster. An all freshman backcourt not playing McDonald all Americans is not a recipe for success.

Do we have to wait for next summer's exit express. I guess we owe it to the recruits to play for the coach that recruited them. But my goodness how much more turnover do we need to see that we need to turn the page.

For the nth time we will not find out what really happened either.

Sent from my iPhone
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Posted: 8/15/2014 6:45 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


I believe KJ would have been first team all-SEC this year and we would have made the Tournament. Now I'd be happy with being competitive and making the NIT. The only silver lining is that we'll be able to see the improvement from the freshmen as they are all we have (though I wouldn't be shocked to see plenty of Josephs again).
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Posted: 8/15/2014 6:46 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


The fact that DJP and Kedren screwed up is not Stallings' fault. Every indication was that these two players were Vandy material and could cut it. They did not. Dai Jon had very gracious things to say about Kevin in his exit tweets. I happen to know that Kevin did everything possible to get them back to school and he team, but they didn't make it,

I will give our players and coaching staff full support.
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  • bhoyal
  • VandyManiac
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:07 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 



foreverhopeful wrote: The fact that DJP and Kedren screwed up is not Stallings' fault. Every indication was that these two players were Vandy material and could cut it. They did not. Dai Jon had very gracious things to say about Kevin in his exit tweets. I happen to know that Kevin did everything possible to get them back to school and he team, but they didn't make it,

I will give our players and coaching staff full support.

I don't fault CKS for whatever it was that was unacceptable that DJP and KJ did either.  They accepted a 50k/year schollie and the responsibility that goes with it to be mature young adults and make good decisions.

Yet, the several year pre-Yanni drought in recruiting that brought back to back losing seasons for the first time in 30 years does stop at his desk.  He's the highly paid CEO and does have to answer for the results.  That's not unreasonable to expect.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:41 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 



bhoyal wrote:
I don't fault CKS for whatever it was that was unacceptable that DJP and KJ did either.  They accepted a 50k/year schollie and the responsibility that goes with it to be mature young adults and make good decisions.

Yet, the several year pre-Yanni drought in recruiting that brought back to back losing seasons for the first time in 30 years does stop at his desk.  He's the highly paid CEO and does have to answer for the results.  That's not unreasonable to expect.
+1
Mike
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:45 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


This provides a lot more context behind the Mitchell recruitment, as well as the recruitment of Camron Justice.  Mitchell's recruitment didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense outside of the "take top talent when you can" theory of recruitment if Johnson was going to be back, but now his presence is essential, and he is likely going to start this season.  

I wouldn't underestimate the presence of Carter Joseph's on the roster.  He is going to play this season, and is going to play a lot.  He managed to play double digit minutes in each of the last 6 games of the season while taking a grand total of one shot.  That is a very difficult thing to have when you have a off guard who is also reluctant to take any shots, but Joseph's is going to be by far the most poised guard on the roster from day one.  If Mitchell struggles at all, I would expect Joseph's to start.  CKS trusts him despite his scoring limitations because he is poised, tough, can run the offense and plays defense.  I don't see any way at this point where he isn't a part of some rotation.  

This also suggests that Roberson is going to be playing much more SF than PF.  That places only freshmen scholarship players in the 1,2 and 3 positions, which is even more reason to expect that Josephs (and perhaps Watkins) will get significant playing time.  

I think this does lower the expectations, but our frontcourt is essentially the same as it was last season, except a year more experienced, and possibly with contributions from Josh Henderson.  The backcourt/wings will have 5 scholarship players instead of 3.

Long term, the importance of Nolan Cressler went up greatly.  There is a strong case to be made that he will lead us in scoring when he is eligible in a year, especially if none of the freshman (namely MFD) really takes on a major scoring role.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:52 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


How on EARTH can Stallings not be held accountable for this??

The guy makes 2 million dollars, and he has recruited one player after another who breaks the rules and/or can't make it at Vanderbilt and/or didn't want to be here in the first place.

We live in an era when public school teachers, who make $35,000 a year, are being held accountable for students who walk into their classroom stoned and who refuse to take tests.

Now we have fans who think that a coach who makes FIFTY TIMES THAT AMOUNT is not responsible for the 3-4 kids he recruits ever year?

Three years of rebuilding... and we are back to having one of the youngest teams in the country... AGAIN???

Last edited 8/15/2014 7:56 PM by historybill

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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:59 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


Is he for a fact not on scholarship?
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:05 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 



historybill wrote: How on EARTH can Stallings not be held accountable for this??


This is what I've been saying for some time.  Hard to watch.
Mike
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:08 PM

Sweet Jebus, we cannot catch a break! 


How can you hang this on Stallings?  These young men were qualified to enroll in Vanderbilt and obviously had the metal to make it for at least two seasons.  If they had not done something boneheaded, they will would be playing.  Is Stallings supposed to attend class with his players, proofread every paper and watch them 24/7?
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:08 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


I know for a fact DJP failed multiple drug tests. I don't see how, as a coach, you would go about preventing that.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:14 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


Let me use the public school teacher analogy.

Public school teachers are being retained and released based on how students THAT THEY DIDN"T CHOOSE are doing on difficult academic tests... even if the kids don't give a rats *** and put their heads on their desks. Tens of thousands of them, across the US and here in Tennessee. These teachers are paid $35 k or so a year in some cases.

You are telling me that Stallings (our $2 million man) should not be held responsible for not only how well the 3-4 kids he recruits every year plays conduct themselves on and off the court? He is only responsible for what they do ON the court?

That being the case... why are Vanderbilt fans so high and mighty about other coaches who aren't held accountable for what their kids do off the court? (Take Phil Fulmer for example).

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  • bhoyal
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:25 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:36 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


Your teacher analogy doesn't ring true to me.

http://www.city-journal.org/2014/cjc0411ls.html

My understanding is that teachers who don't have tenure are the ones who are replaced during budget cuts.

And I think you misunderstand our high and mightiness.  We are miffed by coaches who sweep under the rug the transgressions of their players just to win games.  there is no expectation that coaches of kids who are 18-21 y.o. will see zero issues.  It is how those issues are handled that draws my ire.  See the difference between Johnson and the kids involved in the rape scandal last year vs. Jameis Winston.  
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:48 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


You are wrong about teachers. Instead of reading articles about California, go to the high school near your house and talk to the untenured teacher who has been assigned to teach the kids no one else wants. I can assure you that if, on end of course exam day, their students show up stoned and fail, they are held responsible.

Meanwhile.. on the matter at hand.... we now have lots of Vanderbilt fans who believe that the coach is completely blameless when his players flunk out, fail drug tests and (reportedly) get caught shoplifting?

Vanderbilt pays its basketball coach $2 million a year, and we have gotten used to the idea that we have the second best coach and the second best team in NASHVILLE!

Do you have any idea how empty that gym will be in December???

Last edited 8/15/2014 8:51 PM by historybill

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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:49 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


How about the CEO analogy then. I cannot remember a stretch of time with all this drama. Each situation is different. But at some point it's the CEO's mess. Not sure who else's responsibility it is. And if it's no one's responsibility other than the kids...with all the coaches and trainers and tutors...It's really out of control.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:55 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


The CEO is really David Williams - why do you suppose he hasn't gotten rid of CKS?  Just today he publicly supported CKS.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 9:05 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


The reason that some teachers are "held accountable" is because there is no good mechanism to get rid of the true problem teachers once they've reached tenure.  It isn't really a comparable situation.  Do you think it is fair that they are held accountable or that by holding CKS accountable for something that he has no control over it will make things right?  You have managed to convince me that the way we choose to retain and fire teachers is even worse than I imagined.  But I don't see how two wrongs make a right.  

So where did CKS go wrong with KJ and DJP?  Are you aware of something that others are not?  Are these kids just bad apples that we never should have recruited?   Was he turning a blind eye to their transgressions?  Perhaps you should write to the AD to suggest that we get rid of CKS right now?  Why not try to convince someone who is 1) much closer to the situation than any of us and 2) has the power to do something about it?  Because you aren't doing a particularly good job of getting me to do that for you.    

I have no idea how empty the gym will be, but I will get to see it, as I will be there to watch the games in person, as I have been doing all these years.  If you have any extra tickets you'd like to get rid of, please let me know as my kids are reaching the age where they really like to go.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 9:06 PM

Re: No way to spin the news...it hurts 


He's more the chairman. Frankly, you don't fire a coach in August. I suspect he is going to carefully watch CKS this year. More discord or trouble and I suspect we'll head in another leadership direction right after season end. And a good chance that unless this team performs well (.500 ish) and improving in the end we see a change regardless.
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