http://www.tennessean.com/arti...morial-Mulligan

This is a pretty fair assessment.






(I just edited post to make the link live, hope you don't mind! -- VW)

What was your opinion of Mike Organ's article a few years back advising VU to keep (i)CRC on as permanent football head coach?

Climers got what right. Yes, he did get some facts right. That our coach does not have a winning SEC record, that we have gone into the tourney as 4 and 5 seeds and come home after one game, that due to poor recruiting, this years team has no seniors on it. Before I get reminded about JJ, who can blame the kid. I would have signed an NBA contract if I had been the last pick, knowing what was coming back and that I was going to be the focus of double or triple teams. Change needs to happen alright. Now, not later.

vandybrad wrote: Climers got what right. Yes, he did get some facts right. That our coach does not have a winning SEC record, that we have gone into the tourney as 4 and 5 seeds and come home after one game, that due to poor recruiting, this years team has no seniors on it. Before I get reminded about JJ, who can blame the kid. I would have signed an NBA contract if I had been the last pick, knowing what was coming back and that I was going to be the focus of double or triple teams. Change needs to happen alright. Now, not later.

The way I look at it, over the last 10 seasons of Vanderbilt basketball (including the current one) I've been pretty satisfied with NINE of them.  6 NCAAs.  2 NITs.  8 seasons at .500 or better in the SEC.  7 20 win seasons.  2 Sweet 16s.  

What needs to change next year?  We need experience.  Parker, Jeter, Bright, KJ, and Henderson are getting LOTS of that this year.  We need scoring.  McClellen will help with that right away.  Jeter will be better at that next year.  And has anyone noticed Parkers jump shot going from unmitigated disaster last year to almost acceptable this year?  Reminds me of the path Jeff Taylor's and Jermaine Beal's jump shot took.  We need a better post presence.  Damian Jones is coming.  And with luck, a healthy off-season for Josh will give him the ability to use the offseason to improve.  

If we are under .500 next year, or miss the NIT next year we may need to have some real conversations with Stallings.  Right now, as lousy as this season is, there's a lot to be optimistic about for the future.  Even if there are no big changes at the top.

mathknapp wrote:

If we are under .500 next year, or miss the NIT next year we may need to have some real conversations with Stallings.  

 Congrats!!

nm

The facts are correct and his objective (non fan) perspective is correct.  How in the world could an administration let go the most successful MBB coach in it's history, one year removed from beating the national champions in the SECT?  It is obvious how the fans, in our "what have you done for me now" society want him fired, but an objective thinker looking at the facts can understand how CKS at least deserves the opportunity to turn this around.

underdog74 wrote: but an objective thinker looking at the facts can understand how CKS at least deserves the opportunity to turn this around.

I am, in general, a big believer in giving coaches an opportunity to turn things around.  The Titans kept Jeff Fisher around for a long time ... and after some rough seasons they produced a couple of really solid years around Chris Johnson and a rebuilt defense, thinking here of the year they started 10-0.  The Steelers kept Bill Cowher through good times and bad and he eventually won a Super Bowl for them.  Almost to a T, the most stable and least dysfunctional programs and organizations are ones that make a commitment to their coaches, understand that virtually everyone has bad times as well as good, and instead of applying hot seat pressure during the bad times, reassures a good coach that they have their back, and gives them the support they need to get to the next good stretch.

mathknapp wrote:

underdog74 wrote: but an objective thinker looking at the facts can understand how CKS at least deserves the opportunity to turn this around.

I am, in general, a big believer in giving coaches an opportunity to turn things around.  The Titans kept Jeff Fisher around for a long time ... and after some rough seasons they produced a couple of really solid years around Chris Johnson and a rebuilt defense, thinking here of the year they started 10-0.  The Steelers kept Bill Cowher through good times and bad and he eventually won a Super Bowl for them.  Almost to a T, the most stable and least dysfunctional programs and organizations are ones that make a commitment to their coaches, understand that virtually everyone has bad times as well as good, and instead of applying hot seat pressure during the bad times, reassures a good coach that they have their back, and gives them the support they need to get to the next good stretch.

NFL football has nothing to do with college hoops.  It couldn't be more different.

Recruiting is the life-blood of major college sports.  There is no draft or free agency or waver-wire.  In major college sports, he who doesn't close the deal in recruiting soon becomes the next color analyst on the t.v. game of the week.


(and if Climer turns out to be wrong, what will he say about all the empty seats next season???)

conclusion is not faulty or far-fetched, either.

He merely concluded that no SEC coach (CKS or otherwise) can survive while he's running a program that is down for a number years, and that the addition of whomever that top-100 recruit is who's coming in could greatly assist us in "righting the ship" next year.

Besides it being fairly obvious, what's wrong with that conclusion?

What Stallings needs to do first is get rid of his current staff. If he indeed is going to be back, he needs to shake up his staff. It is obvious that his staff is not teaching and not recruiting.

If he isn't willing to do that, then Stallings should be fired.

Just like with Mike Munchak, he, at least, made staff changes. If that doesn't work, he is gone.

I find this post highly ironic in light of the fact that LAST SEASON, for the first time in program history, we sent THREE PLAYERS to the NBA. If you think that a single one of those players didn't improve in their time here, largely due to coaching, then you need to reevaluate.

Vandy1Fan wrote: What Stallings needs to do first is get rid of his current staff. If he indeed is going to be back, he needs to shake up his staff. It is obvious that his staff is not teaching and not recruiting.

If he isn't willing to do that, then Stallings should be fired.

Just like with Mike Munchak, he, at least, made staff changes. If that doesn't work, he is gone.

Oh, and almost forgot to mention that Lance Goulbourne also got a shot at landing on an NBA roster. But hey, our coaches clearly aren't doing a single thing right...

UltimateVUFan wrote: I find this post highly ironic in light of the fact that LAST SEASON, for the first time in program history, we sent THREE PLAYERS to the NBA. If you think that a single one of those players didn't improve in their time here, largely due to coaching, then you need to reevaluate.

Vandy1Fan wrote: What Stallings needs to do first is get rid of his current staff. If he indeed is going to be back, he needs to shake up his staff. It is obvious that his staff is not teaching and not recruiting.

If he isn't willing to do that, then Stallings should be fired.

Just like with Mike Munchak, he, at least, made staff changes. If that doesn't work, he is gone.

UltimateVUFan wrote: I find this post highly ironic in light of the fact that LAST SEASON, for the first time in program history, we sent THREE PLAYERS to the NBA. If you think that a single one of those players didn't improve in their time here, largely due to coaching, then you need to reevaluate.

Vandy1Fan wrote: What Stallings needs to do first is get rid of his current staff. If he indeed is going to be back, he needs to shake up his staff. It is obvious that his staff is not teaching and not recruiting.

If he isn't willing to do that, then Stallings should be fired.

Just like with Mike Munchak, he, at least, made staff changes. If that doesn't work, he is gone.

John was a badass when he got to VU and had immediate success and, imo, Jeff never reached his full potential while he was at Vanderbilt.

I think most VU fans would agree that, although he's a very good player, Jeff could have been even better, and it seems that the coaching staff should have been better able assist him with his most glaring shortcoming, which is his lack of consistency when it comes to scoring the basketball.

In short, I don't think CKS is a bad developer of talent by any stretch of the imagination, but on the same token, I wouldn't say that he's superb at it, either.

These are coaches- not magicians.

foreverhopeful wrote: These are coaches- not magicians.

to help their players be more consistent out on the court. That mostly has to do with one's mental approach to the game, and just as coaches are responsible for teaching fundamentals/technical aspects of the game, they are also responsible for their team's mental preparedness and/or the ability to "push the right buttons."

If a coach cannot excel in that department, then tell me why he deserves to be making millions of dollars? It isn't all about x's and o's-- what's described in the previous paragraph is just as important as x's and o's and, imo, "the mental side" of the game just isn't CKS's forte.

bhoyal wrote:

mathknapp wrote:

underdog74 wrote: but an objective thinker looking at the facts can understand how CKS at least deserves the opportunity to turn this around.

I am, in general, a big believer in giving coaches an opportunity to turn things around.  The Titans kept Jeff Fisher around for a long time ... and after some rough seasons they produced a couple of really solid years around Chris Johnson and a rebuilt defense, thinking here of the year they started 10-0.  The Steelers kept Bill Cowher through good times and bad and he eventually won a Super Bowl for them.  Almost to a T, the most stable and least dysfunctional programs and organizations are ones that make a commitment to their coaches, understand that virtually everyone has bad times as well as good, and instead of applying hot seat pressure during the bad times, reassures a good coach that they have their back, and gives them the support they need to get to the next good stretch.

NFL football has nothing to do with college hoops.  It couldn't be more different.

Recruiting is the life-blood of major college sports.  There is no draft or free agency or waver-wire.  In major college sports, he who doesn't close the deal in recruiting soon becomes the next color analyst on the t.v. game of the week.


(and if Climer turns out to be wrong, what will he say about all the empty seats next season???)

I picked football examples because they came to mind, but several people here have posted about schools that have made mockeries of themselves by chasing coaches in circles.  New coach in.  Four years later, old coach out.  End result: no consistency and no belief in the system.  (Or in other words, 40 years of Vandy football until we hired Bobby Johnson ... and while BJ had his flaws and JF is really great, you better believe JF owes a lot to the way that BJ improved this program from unmitigated disaster to slightly below average ... not saying Franklin isn't great, but he doesn't do what he's doing if not for BJ, Jay Cutler, a bowl game, a game day hosting that year, and a general sense that while we hadn't graduated to winners yet, we maybe weren't a doormat anymore ... but I digress).

bek7567 wrote:

UltimateVUFan wrote: I find this post highly ironic in light of the fact that LAST SEASON, for the first time in program history, we sent THREE PLAYERS to the NBA. If you think that a single one of those players didn't improve in their time here, largely due to coaching, then you need to reevaluate.

Vandy1Fan wrote: What Stallings needs to do first is get rid of his current staff. If he indeed is going to be back, he needs to shake up his staff. It is obvious that his staff is not teaching and not recruiting.

If he isn't willing to do that, then Stallings should be fired.

Just like with Mike Munchak, he, at least, made staff changes. If that doesn't work, he is gone.

John was a badass when he got to VU and had immediate success and, imo, Jeff never reached his full potential while he was at Vanderbilt.

I think most VU fans would agree that, although he's a very good player, Jeff could have been even better, and it seems that the coaching staff should have been better able assist him with his most glaring shortcoming, which is his lack of consistency when it comes to scoring the basketball.

In short, I don't think CKS is a bad developer of talent by any stretch of the imagination, but on the same token, I wouldn't say that he's superb at it, either.

JJ came in as a brilliant shooter, but iffy in other aspects of the game. Pretty much the same when he left, though the iffy areas IMO got stronger.

Can't argue with you on Taylor.

I think you have to give the staff some credit on Fez, though. Dude came in having played minimal organized bball and now he's getting NBA minutes. Can't remember which season, but there was one stretch where he made everyone's "most improved player" list. If Stallings and his staff are the kiss of death to player development, Fez must have missed out somehow.

With that talent how come we can't advance in the NCAA

I repeat for the 6th time, if we can't win with the best talent ever last year and get to the Sweet 16, we ain't gonna do with the current coaching staff and that falls on the head coach for not motivting who he had nor recruiting for the voids he knew were coming.  We need an inside presence and we don't have it.  Give him till the end of this season with a stud at center and then serious goals for next year of a sweet 16 or he's outta here.  Get on with it because good enough isn't good enough any more.  We need excellence in basketball with good dynamic coaching that can motivate and win the close games. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand granades as we found out last year and it continues this year.  I see no future to consistent sweet 16s and occasional elite 8 which is where we should have been last year with too many close losses and another bomb in NCAAT with a win over big Harvard. At least we beat them in sports.  Go Vandy give us something to cheer for in the post season.