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wisconsin
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- tollrat2
- Third Team
- Rating: 0.0/5 this site
- 145 posts this site
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Posted: 2/22/2011 7:09 PM
wisconsin
gov needs to fire everyone who doesnt show up to teach.....
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Posted: 2/22/2011 9:06 PM
Re: wisconsin
Sounds like a great idea. Fire all the teachers.  |
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Posted: 2/23/2011 12:51 AM
RE: wisconsin
If you don't do your job, you should be fired.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 8:48 AM
RE: wisconsin
And if you cut benefits you should expect resistance your workforce. News @ 11. |
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Posted: 2/23/2011 11:05 AM
RE: wisconsin
That's why I always preach against entitlement societies. Those unions are just going to have to deal with it. If there is no money, then there is no money and it's unfair to burden non-union taxpayers with it. That's why I love living in a non-union state.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 3:17 PM
RE: wisconsin
How are taxpayers burdened with union dues? Makes zero sense, as the workers themselves pay the dues.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 3:54 PM
Re: wisconsin
Taxpayers pay the salaries of government workers....part of those salaries go to labor unions to fund union activities....one of those activities is trying to elect every Democrat possible...ergo, taxpayers are indirectly contributing to unions therby electing more Socialists....Unions serve no purpose in the 21st century and should be totally eliminated...when I think of a union worker I think of someone not smart enough or capable enough to get a job on their own...unions are merely a branch of the Democratic Party whose chief aim is total control of the government....Even such Democrat stalwarts as Franklin Roosevelt and George Meany spoke out against allowing government employees to unionize...
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Posted: 2/23/2011 6:01 PM
RE: wisconsin
Mynok wrote:
How are taxpayers burdened with union dues? Makes zero sense, as the workers themselves pay the dues. These are public sector jobs, not private. Who pays the benefits? The states do. Where do the states get the money? The tax payers. Makes a lot of sense to me. |
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Posted: 2/24/2011 1:58 AM
RE: wisconsin
No they aren't. They are private sector jobs. Foolishness.
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Posted: 2/24/2011 5:57 AM
RE: wisconsin
Which part of "government employee" do you not understand ? Nothing "private" about it...
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Posted: 2/24/2011 9:07 AM
RE: wisconsin
Mynok wrote:
How are taxpayers burdened with union dues? Makes zero sense, as the workers themselves pay the dues. The same way that when a public employee buys groceries, everyone who pays taxes can eat at their table free of charge. If they buy a house, then we all own a brick. When someone works for the government we get to control 100% of what they do with their money, because it is our money and that is the very definition of freedom. Now the exception is if they are a "small-government" conservative in a public sector job. In that case they are fighting tooth and nail to give away tax breaks and incentives to corporations while running up huge spending deficits that the next administration will have to deal with and the next generation will have to pay off. Only then are they free to give the money they've earned to whomever they please, so long as it's an approved conservative cause. |
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Posted: 2/24/2011 9:47 AM
Re: wisconsin
Zero
The same way that when a public employee buys groceries, everyone who pays taxes can eat at their table free of charge. If they buy a house, then we all own a brick. When someone works for the government we get to control 100% of what they do with their money, because it is our money and that is the very definition of freedom.
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Actually a little worse than that, son...Government workers are actually able to elect their own boss....pretty good deal if you can get it....I assume you think it's OK for taxpayers to pay salaries and benefits to union thugs that are higher than the average taxpayer's salary and benefits...Probaly OK with you Libs but it smells like two week old fish to the taxpayers supplying that salary to the union thugs...
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Posted: 2/24/2011 10:42 AM
RE: wisconsin
anthair wrote: Which part of "government employee" do you not understand ? Nothing "private" about it... What part of "unions are not part of our government" do you not get? They are private sector entities. Period.
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Posted: 2/24/2011 10:50 AM
Re: wisconsin
If they were "private" the employees would have a choice about whetherr to join...that's not the case...how long would a government employee keep their job if they refused to join ? Unions are the money launderring arm of the Democrat Party...they extort money from the taxpayers who pay government workers salaries and take the extorted payments and give it to Democrats...legalized extortion...
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Posted: 2/24/2011 11:28 AM
Re: wisconsin
anthair wrote: Zero
The same way that when a public employee buys groceries, everyone who pays taxes can eat at their table free of charge. If they buy a house, then we all own a brick. When someone works for the government we get to control 100% of what they do with their money, because it is our money and that is the very definition of freedom.
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Actually a little worse than that, son...Government workers are actually able to elect their own boss....pretty good deal if you can get it....I assume you think it's OK for taxpayers to pay salaries and benefits to union thugs that are higher than the average taxpayer's salary and benefits...Probaly OK with you Libs but it smells like two week old fish to the taxpayers supplying that salary to the union thugs... Government workers don't get to elect their own boss. The average worker gets to elect their boss's boss's boss, at best. You're acting like they choose their own supervisor. Citizens pay taxes. Taxes pay salaries. Salaries are also taxed, FYI. But the money that goes home is theirs to spend as they see fit. That should be a CONSERVATIVE value. You don't tell me what to do with my money, I don't tell you what to do with yours. If you think teacher's salaries are too high then obviously you didn't go through enough school. Starting teacher salary is about $25K in Wisconsin. Average is under 50 (not including administrators, who are not union AFAIK). They are the 20th highest paid state teachers, but their avg. starting salary is 49th out of 51 (including DC). And they are in the top 10 of all states in SAT, ACT, graduation, college acceptance, etc.. So it sounds like they're a pretty good investment. They want to keep their healthcare and retirement benefits. Wisconsin unions have done great things for our country and the world in the past. No doubting that. |
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Posted: 2/24/2011 12:09 PM
Re: wisconsin
theZero
Citizens pay taxes. Taxes pay salaries. Salaries are also taxed, FYI. But the money that goes home is theirs to spend as they see fit. That should be a CONSERVATIVE value. You don't tell me what to do with my money, I don't tell you what to do with yours.
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Actually a conservative value would be allowing a prospective worker to choose whether or not to join a union...a conservative value would be having some say so in the political contributions made by a worker's union...a conservative value would be not allowing an organization that produces nothing to extort taxpayers...what your statement fails to mention is that there would be no paycheck to do with as they please if they were not blackmailed into joining a union...with current laws in place there is absolutely no reason for a union other than to enrich mobsters and Libs at the expense of taxpayers...
As to salaries, Federal spending on education has risen 188% in REAL dollars since 1970 with no improvement in students' test scores...(actually I believe SAT scores topped out around 1962)....the unpleasant truth is that people who cannot get a degree in any other field major in education...in general teachers are the bottom of the barrel scholastically...and I know that is not always true, but is very common...if they want to make more money they should seek degrees in law, accounting, physics, etc...
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Posted: 2/24/2011 12:41 PM
Re: wisconsin
anthair wrote: If they were "private" the employees would have a choice about whetherr to join...that's not the case...how long would a government employee keep their job if they refused to join ? Unions are the money launderring arm of the Democrat Party...they extort money from the taxpayers who pay government workers salaries and take the extorted payments and give it to Democrats...legalized extortion... No they wouldn't. That isn't how unions work. A company becomes a union shop by employee referendum. Only then is it mandated (by state law in some states only) that they join the union. The employees can always have a new referendum and de-unionize. In NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM is a union a government entity. There are state laws about them but they are not a part of the government. Period. There are states which allow unions but do NOT require employees to join them. North Carolina is one of them.
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Posted: 2/24/2011 12:52 PM
Re: wisconsin
anthair wrote: t
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Actually a conservative value would be allowing a prospective worker to choose whether or not to join a union...a conservative value would be having some say so in the political contributions made by a worker's union...a conservative value would be not allowing an organization that produces nothing to extort taxpayers...what your statement fails to mention is that there would be no paycheck to do with as they please if they were not blackmailed into joining a union...with current laws in place there is absolutely no reason for a union other than to enrich mobsters and Libs at the expense of taxpayers...
As to salaries, Federal spending on education has risen 188% in REAL dollars since 1970 with no improvement in students' test scores...(actually I believe SAT scores topped out around 1962)....the unpleasant truth is that people who cannot get a degree in any other field major in education...in general teachers are the bottom of the barrel scholastically...and I know that is not always true, but is very common...if they want to make more money they should seek degrees in law, accounting, physics, etc... I grant you that they should be able to choose to join or not join the union. Absolutely. Union members vote on the direction of the union, and elect their leaders, so they have as much say so as they can, I guess. If you're an NRA member you can't say, "have my portion of dues go to candidate X and not candidate Y." I guess you could request it, but they'll disburse funds however their elected leadership deems fit. Spending on education is not the same as spending on teacher's salaries. You're taking into account No Child Left Behind, aren't you? $25 Billion per year in federal spending figures into that, you know. What about the ballooning Department of Education, which has record growth when "conservatives" are in power? The real question is how have teacher salaries and benefits increased since 1970? And how does that compare to increases in inflation and the cost of living? My guess is not-too favorably. The only info I've found is that their salary & benefits have fallen 6%+ from 1997-2007 when adjusted for inflation. That's on par with most of what's left of the middle class. Also, the SAT has changed drastically since the 60's and 70's. Not sure you can compare the two. Sure they could make more money in law, medicine, etc. They'd also make more money if they won the lottery or all had rich uncles die. That's beside the point. I know many teachers who WANTED to be teachers, several of whom are brilliant. I only know one dunce who got a degree and is teaching (close to Clemson, as a matter of fact). Yeah, there are some bad teachers out there, but cutting salaries and benefits only serves to get rid of the good ones. Let's say we get rid of public education, and everything is privatized. Do you want kids being taught by someone just out of community college making minimum wage, or someone making a living wage, with years of experience and an advanced degree? How much should teachers earn?
Last edited 2/24/2011 2:09 PM by theZero
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Posted: 2/24/2011 2:48 PM
Re: wisconsin
MynokIn NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM is a union a government entity. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx I didn't say they were a government entity...I said they are an arm of the Democrat party that is used to steal from the taxpayer, launder the money and give it the mob or to the Democrat party...it's a little much to allow unions to bankrupt state governments as they are doing in Wisconsin, California and many other states... It's extortion, pure and simple....and it's the way Democrats have always played the game... Send them the way of the air traffic controllers of the 80's...and the Democrat members of the Wisconsin senate need to be fired as well for not doing their jobs....they were elected to represent the people of Wisconsin and they can't do that while they're in Illinois...
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Posted: 2/24/2011 3:29 PM
Re: wisconsin
anthair wrote:
Mynok
I didn't say they were a government entity... Yes you did: anthair wrote:
Mynok
Which part of "government employee" do you not understand ? Nothing "private" about it...
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