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Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns.

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:24 PM

Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/....html?hpt=hp_t2

Many on this board enjoy advocating that we all need to be armed so "they," or "the government" never gets an advantage over "us."  And those same advocates chose to ignore the fact that 75% of all fire arms - related deaths are committed by people who know their victim.  But after reading this article, I am ready to admit that we just need more guns.  Clearly, guns are the answer to all our problems so let's all head to the nearest gun show and stock up. 

 
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Posted: 7/10/2014 12:25 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


I knew a woman who lived alone and, one night, a man broke in and beat her to death.  She didn't have a gun, thankfully, or she may have shot him and saved her own life.  I attended her funeral. 

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Posted: 7/10/2014 9:28 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



SierraPoke2 wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/....html?hpt=hp_t2

Many on this board enjoy advocating that we all need to be armed so "they," or "the government" never gets an advantage over "us."  And those same advocates chose to ignore the fact that 75% of all fire arms - related deaths are committed by people who know their victim.  But after reading this article, I am ready to admit that we just need more guns.  Clearly, guns are the answer to all our problems so let's all head to the nearest gun show and stock up. 

 
and knives, and clubs and fists... there are more deaths from those than from guns... get a grip.
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand."

from the “History of the Peloponnesian War” ca. 410 BC, Thucydides

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Posted: 7/10/2014 9:31 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



SierraPoke2 wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/....html?hpt=hp_t2

Many on this board enjoy advocating that we all need to be armed so "they," or "the government" never gets an advantage over "us."  And those same advocates chose to ignore the fact that 75% of all fire arms - related deaths are committed by people who know their victim.  But after reading this article, I am ready to admit that we just need more guns.  Clearly, guns are the answer to all our problems so let's all head to the nearest gun show and stock up. 

 
Guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens can cure some of societies ills.  Good suggestion, Sierra!  Keep up the good work.wink
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Posted: 7/10/2014 1:15 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



SierraPoke2 wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/....html?hpt=hp_t2

Many on this board enjoy advocating that we all need to be armed so "they," or "the government" never gets an advantage over "us."  And those same advocates chose to ignore the fact that 75% of all fire arms - related deaths are committed by people who know their victim.  But after reading this article, I am ready to admit that we just need more guns.  Clearly, guns are the answer to all our problems so let's all head to the nearest gun show and stock up. 

 
I'm sorry, but I don't get that impression at all from what I've read here.  I've seen some state their opinion that banning guns would not eliminate gun-related deaths, but I don't recall seeing "many" people state that everyone needed to be armed.

Are these deaths any less tragic in the situations where the involved parties did not know one another?

Be it a gun, a knife, a bat, or anything else, stories like what you linked are simply tragedies.  There's an 11 year old boy in NC who now has to live the rest of his life with the memory of his dad being shot by his grandfather and of he killing his grandfather.  Taking away the tool does not fix the problems that led to the tool being employed.   It *might* have changed the outcome (i.e. injury in lieu of fatality), but who's to say that the grandfather and/or the boy wouldn't have simply gone for a knife or an axe instead?
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Posted: 7/10/2014 1:42 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


Yep...and even though the guns in the hands of these "law abiding citizens" resulted in the death of two of them and scarred forever the life of the little boy, I am not deterred.  Arm everyone!  The more shootouts, the better.
1981poke wrote:
SierraPoke2 wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/08/....html?hpt=hp_t2

Many on this board enjoy advocating that we all need to be armed so "they," or "the government" never gets an advantage over "us."  And those same advocates chose to ignore the fact that 75% of all fire arms - related deaths are committed by people who know their victim.  But after reading this article, I am ready to admit that we just need more guns.  Clearly, guns are the answer to all our problems so let's all head to the nearest gun show and stock up. 

 
Guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens can cure some of societies ills.  Good suggestion, Sierra!  Keep up the good work.wink
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  • jdawk
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Posted: 7/10/2014 8:40 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise, study claims

Published July 09, 2014
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concealed.jpg

A new study finds that an increase in concealed carry permits has accompanied a decrease in murder. (AP)

A dramatic spike in the number of Americans with permits to carry concealed weapons coincides with an equally stark drop in violent crime, according to a new study, which Second Amendment advocates say makes the case that more guns can mean safer streets.

The study by the Crime Prevention Research Center found that 11.1 million Americans now have permits to carry concealed weapons, up from 4.5 million in 2007. The 146 percent increase has come even as both murder and violent crime rates have dropped by 22 percent.

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals," said the center’s president, John R. Lott, a Fox News contributor. “Some criminals stop committing crimes, others move on to crimes in which they don’t come into contact with victims and others actually move to areas where they have less fear of being confronted by armed victims.”

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals."

- John R. Lott, Crime Prevention Research Center

Increasing gun ownership, litigation and new state laws have all contributed to the rise in concealed carry permits. In March, Illinois became the 50th state to begin issuing concealed weapons permits. But the cost and other requirements for obtaining the permits varies greatly, from South Dakota, where a permit requires $10, a background check and no training, to Illinois, where the cost of obtaining a permit comes to more than $600 when the fee and cost of training programs are taken into account.

Six states don’t require a permit for legal gun owners to conceal their weapons, and Lott notes those states have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the nation.

The real measure of the deterrent effect of concealed carry permits, according to Lott, is not laws on the books, but the percentage of a given state’s population that holds the permits. In 10 states, more than 8 percent of adults hold concealed carry permits, and all are among the states with the lowest crime rates. Lott claims his group’s analysis shows that each one percentage point increase in the adult population holding permits brings a 1.4 percent drop in the murder rate.

“We found that the size of the drop [in crime] is directly related to the percentage of the population with permits,” Lott said.

Between 2007 and the preliminary estimates for 2013, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.4 per 100,000.

Tod Burke, a former police officer and a professor of criminal justice at Radford University, in Radford, Va., said he doesn’t buy the idea that gun permits are driving the reduction in crime. Burke said several factors, including smarter, “data-driven” policing and increased incarceration of violent criminals likely play a bigger role.

“I think we have to be cautious about having a causal relationship between gun permits and a decrease in crime,” Burke said. “[Lott’s] theory is one to consider, but not to the exclusion of others.”

The report is the first tally of concealed carry permit holders since a survey in 2011 by the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that 8 million Americans held them.

The total of 11,113,013 Americans who currently hold concealed carry permits represents 4.8 percent of the total adult population. But the center stated that the number of concealed carry permit holders is likely much higher, because numbers are not available for all states that issue permits, such as New York. Additionally, four states and the majority of Montana do not require that residents have a concealed handgun permit to carry within the state, so the number of residents who carry a concealed weapon is not recorded.

Florida has the most active concealed carry permits, at nearly 1.3 million. Texas is second, at just more than 708,000, while Hawaii, at 183, has the fewest of states whose data was available.

Earlier this year, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that California must allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms in public, striking down the core of the state's permit system for handguns.  The judges found in a 2-1 holding that San Diego County’s rule that residents must show "good cause" -- and not merely the desire to protect themselves -- to obtain a concealed-weapons permit, violated their constitutional rights.

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Posted: 7/10/2014 10:15 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 




Here are six more funerals for you to attend.

www.khou.com/news/crime/5-peop...-266516561.html
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--- K9Buck wrote:

I knew a woman who lived alone and, one night, a man broke in and beat her to death.  She didn't have a gun, thankfully, or she may have shot him and saved her own life.  I attended her funeral. 



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Posted: 7/11/2014 2:29 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



pokegoats wrote:

Here are six more funerals for you to attend.

www.khou.com/news/crime/5-peop...-266516561.html
---------------------------------------------
--- K9Buck wrote:

I knew a woman who lived alone and, one night, a man broke in and beat her to death.  She didn't have a gun, thankfully, or she may have shot him and saved her own life.  I attended her funeral. 



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I bet you were just giddy to hear that a white guy shot and killed six people.
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Posted: 7/11/2014 3:54 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


  Undated arrest photo of Ronald Lee Haskell, Houston shooter,from a different incident in Utah.

Last edited 7/11/2014 3:55 AM by RovertoSolo

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Posted: 7/11/2014 7:34 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


How many people are killed or injured each year by guns:
- legally possessed, excluding self-defense?
- illegally possessed?
- stolen from their legal owner?
- used in self-defense?
Can't win the Big XII? Join the SEC!
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Posted: 7/11/2014 8:04 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


Probably as giddy as you were with that woman being beaten to death.


---------------------------------------------
--- K9Buck wrote:


pokegoats wrote:

Here are six more funerals for you to attend.

www.khou.com/news/crime/5-peop...-266516561.html
---------------------------------------------
--- K9Buck wrote:

I knew a woman who lived alone and, one night, a man broke in and beat her to death.  She didn't have a gun, thankfully, or she may have shot him and saved her own life.  I attended her funeral. 



---------------------------------------------

I bet you were just giddy to hear that a white guy shot and killed six people.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 7/11/2014 9:08 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



pokegoats wrote: Probably as giddy as you were with that woman being beaten to death.
Are you opposed to people owning guns?
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Posted: 7/13/2014 9:19 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


The notion that more guns on the streets of America will reduce violence in this country is pure idicy.

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Posted: 7/13/2014 9:33 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



olderschool wrote: The notion that more guns on the streets of America will reduce violence in this country is pure idicy.
nobody is talking about "more guns on the streets", you added that.

Guns "on the streets" are the bad guys, who likely did not obtain their gun legally in the first place.

The issue is for more law-abiding citizens with the ability to carry guns if they so choose.


in that regard, there is ample evidence that  you are wrong.
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand."

from the “History of the Peloponnesian War” ca. 410 BC, Thucydides

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Posted: 7/13/2014 9:40 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


First let me say that I am a gun owner, but I am also very much for gun control.

The problem is not guns in the hands of responsible gun owners, its guns in the hands of iresponsible owners. No system is perfect, but every time the Government tries to implement some measure to try to keep guns out of the hands of these iresponible people the NRA and others start screaming about the 2nd ammendment and all that crap. If the NRA ( and others ) would work with the government , and I mean actually try to help the situation then just maybe we could get some laws passed that would actually do some good. IMO the NRA is one of the most damaging organizations in this country, and is keeping us from actaually doing somehting that will help, while still allowing the people who deserve to own guns to do so. At some point, and it may be 5 years form now or 50 years from now, if things don't improve , the governemt will have no choice but to make owning a gun illegal.  At some point, it will have to come to that
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Posted: 7/13/2014 11:35 AM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



cowboylance wrote: First let me say that I am a gun owner, but I am also very much for gun control.

The problem is not guns in the hands of responsible gun owners, its guns in the hands of iresponsible owners. No system is perfect, but every time the Government tries to implement some measure to try to keep guns out of the hands of these iresponible people the NRA and others start screaming about the 2nd ammendment and all that crap. If the NRA ( and others ) would work with the government , and I mean actually try to help the situation then just maybe we could get some laws passed that would actually do some good. IMO the NRA is one of the most damaging organizations in this country, and is keeping us from actaually doing somehting that will help, while still allowing the people who deserve to own guns to do so. At some point, and it may be 5 years form now or 50 years from now, if things don't improve , the governemt will have no choice but to make owning a gun illegal.  At some point, it will have to come to that

The "2nd amendment and all that crap"?     What the hell, let's just throw out the other 32 amendments while we're at it; if one is crap, they all must be, right?!?

And the bigger problem is guns in the hands of criminals.   Why not enforce the laws we have?   Punish criminals who use or own guns illegally to the max.   But wait, we have bleeding hearts who want to let the poor murders continue to draw breath and the poor misguided gang bangers who hold up a liquor store with a gun off with a light sentence.   So yeah, let's pass more laws to punish the law abiding people.......   then we can hammer those bastards, if they screw up trying to defend themselves or something.

As for irresponsible people owning guns......   well, I suppose we could establish some kind of psychic thought police, you know like in that Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report.    They could determine who is going to do something irresponsible with a gun and whack the mole before it happens.   That or just assume everyone is irresponsible.......   the government seems to think that the case anyway.

Or we could just do as you say will eventually happen and outlaw guns for private citizens now.   Throw in totally invasive surveillance and abolish a right to trial by jury and we'll have the complete "menage a police state".

Last edited 7/13/2014 11:39 AM by MadMau

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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:15 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


The moment we give in to the left and give up what types of guns we can own, magazine size, etc., it's gone FOREVER and then the left will want more and more and more and won't stop until no private citizen may own a gun.

Last edited 7/13/2014 12:15 PM by K9Buck

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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:26 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 



K9Buck wrote: The moment we give in to the left and give up what types of guns we can own, magazine size, etc., it's gone FOREVER and then the left will want more and more and more and won't stop until no private citizen may own a gun.
More Idiocy.

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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:56 PM

Re: Ok, I'm convinced. All we need is more guns. 


Not to long ago a guy with a car drove thru a crowd of people deliberate killing several in L.A. and shortly after that the same scenario occurred in Austn,Tx Should use of autos be outlawed.
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