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Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
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Posted: 12/12/2012 11:25 AM
Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
$9.1 million per team in the Big 12 is better than $6.5 million in the SEC. That difference right there nearly pays the salary of our head coach.
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The Big 12 doesn't sound very interested in expanding. Want a big reason why? Look at the prospective revenue numbers from the new playoff, via colleague Brett McMurphy. From 2014-25, the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will earn an average of at least $91 million annually, sources told ESPN. By comparison, the average for the group of five -- Big East, Mountain West, Mid-American, Conference USA and Sun Belt -- during that 12-year period will be about $17.25 million annually.
The BCS recently signed a 12-year contract with ESPN. The deal averages $470 million annually, sources said. Of that amount, about $125 million is expected to go toward expenses, including an academic reward component, game participation, team expenses, allotment to Football Championship Subdivision conferences and other items. That's big money, and that's only for the new postseason. Never mind all the TV money rolling in for the Big 12. For the 14-team leagues like the SEC and Big Ten, that's only $6.5 million more per school. In the Big 12, that's $9.1 million per school. That's a big, big difference. Schools take notice, too. That $2.6 million extra can go a long way. For whatever money the Big 12 earns, there are fewer "slices of pie" and fewer "mouths to feed." In situations like this, that kind of thing shows.
LINK
oSu class of '80
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Posted: 12/12/2012 11:26 AM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
I get why they do not want to right now. But in the future, having ten teams will hurt us I think. When that will be i dont know. But it will ( I think )
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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:36 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
To me expanding is a no-brainer.
$2.6 million could be made up for by adding two teams and at least getting 12 for a conference championship game. The Conference Championship game would pay out another 2 million or so per the contract in place. So, you are talking 600K to at least keep up with the Smiths in expansion. The TV networks aren't going to be happy if you don't add at this point, and the next contract we get could be horrible unless we expand. Expanding at that point may suck, because there will likely be no good teams left...
Expansion has to happen pretty much before 2014 change to playoff, the big conferences will lock in their teams with absurd buyouts, and those left out will be out for good with a few not so great teams floating around.
The best option is go to 12, or even 14 or 16 at this point when you may be able to pull some great teams. To my knowledge, because of the payouts the Big XII has never actively approached FSU or Clemson. If we ever got those two, it would open the doors to Notre Dame, Ga Tech, and several other ACC schools that are valuable and would make a nice Eastern Division in the Big XII for WVU.
2.5 mil is a decent amount, but the Big XII Champ game would have a payout, and you could possibly approach teams that could hold their space well and not make the payout decrease. The TV reps may have enough interest in the Big XII expanding to pay more anyways.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:51 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
Expansion only makes sense if you add teams that bring large numbers of new TV's into the mix.
I think expanding to twelve would be good if the two teams were FSU and Clemson or Georgia Tech.
Last edited 12/12/2012 12:52 PM by PasoPoke
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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:52 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
U be right about expansion...but it has to be in the RIGHT TV market and open new recruiting areas, and they must bring something to the table!!!
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- et4osu
- Grumpy Old Man
- 16663 posts this site
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:01 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
I don't want to expand but if they do, it won't be for less money per team if it's Florida State and Clemson, only if they do something stupid like Boise and Cinncinatti.
Last edited 12/12/2012 1:08 PM by et4osu
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:03 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:07 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
CaliforniaCowboy wrote:I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. I agree. If I remember right the Big 8 Conference wanted to add just Texas and Texas A&M and got forced to take Texas Tech and Baylor too. When the Pac 8 expanded to 10 teams they continued to play every other team. The Big 10 has never played every other team each year that I recall. Now the Pac 12 is the same as the SEC and B1G. The SEC had 10 teams for years until 1991. Did they play each other every year back when? I think a conference is too big when all the teams cannot meet on the playing field during a season. 
Post pot ergo propter pot not.
Last edited 12/12/2012 1:16 PM by RovertoSolo
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:11 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
CaliforniaCowboy wrote: I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. Right now with the TV contracts, it doesnt. But what happens when all of that gets renewed or restructured. Im not saying it will happen for sure. Just we do not know what the future brings, other than there is a good chance super conferences are on the way.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 2:33 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
mbkburke wrote:
CaliforniaCowboy wrote:I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. Right now with the TV contracts, it doesnt. But what happens when all of that gets renewed or restructured. Im not saying it will happen for sure. Just we do not know what the future brings, other than there is a good chance super conferences are on the way. yeah... big TV demand for Northwestern versus Maryland I'm not buying it. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 3:08 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
OrangeAggie wrote: $9.1 million per team in the Big 12 is better than $6.5 million in the SEC. That difference right there nearly pays the salary of our head coach.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
The Big 12 doesn't sound very interested in expanding. Want a big reason why? Look at the prospective revenue numbers from the new playoff, via colleague Brett McMurphy.
From 2014-25, the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will earn an average of at least $91 million annually, sources told ESPN. By comparison, the average for the group of five -- Big East, Mountain West, Mid-American, Conference USA and Sun Belt -- during that 12-year period will be about $17.25 million annually.
The BCS recently signed a 12-year contract with ESPN. The deal averages $470 million annually, sources said. Of that amount, about $125 million is expected to go toward expenses, including an academic reward component, game participation, team expenses, allotment to Football Championship Subdivision conferences and other items.
That's big money, and that's only for the new postseason. Never mind all the TV money rolling in for the Big 12. For the 14-team leagues like the SEC and Big Ten, that's only $6.5 million more per school.
In the Big 12, that's $9.1 million per school. That's a big, big difference. Schools take notice, too. That $2.6 million extra can go a long way.
For whatever money the Big 12 earns, there are fewer "slices of pie" and fewer "mouths to feed."
In situations like this, that kind of thing shows.
LINK One thing you are ignoring is the Big 12, without expanding, cannot have a conference championship game. The CCG offsets a good portion of that difference. |
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- Tuloma
- A.P. All-American
- 1417 posts this site
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:26 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
CowboySterk wrote: To me expanding is a no-brainer.
$2.6 million could be made up for by adding two teams and at least getting 12 for a conference championship game. The Conference Championship game would pay out another 2 million or so per the contract in place. So, you are talking 600K to at least keep up with the Smiths in expansion. The TV networks aren't going to be happy if you don't add at this point, and the next contract we get could be horrible unless we expand. Expanding at that point may suck, because there will likely be no good teams left...
Expansion has to happen pretty much before 2014 change to playoff, the big conferences will lock in their teams with absurd buyouts, and those left out will be out for good with a few not so great teams floating around.
The best option is go to 12, or even 14 or 16 at this point when you may be able to pull some great teams. To my knowledge, because of the payouts the Big XII has never actively approached FSU or Clemson. If we ever got those two, it would open the doors to Notre Dame, Ga Tech, and several other ACC schools that are valuable and would make a nice Eastern Division in the Big XII for WVU.
2.5 mil is a decent amount, but the Big XII Champ game would have a payout, and you could possibly approach teams that could hold their space well and not make the payout decrease. The TV reps may have enough interest in the Big XII expanding to pay more anyways. One article I read said that if the Big12 added two teams, revenue would have to increase by $60 million to break even. Not likey to happen Also, when the /big12 had a CCG IIRC the grand total was $6-8 million paid to the conference....not all that much per team |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:40 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
chomper76 wrote:
OrangeAggie wrote: $9.1 million per team in the Big 12 is better than $6.5 million in the SEC. That difference right there nearly pays the salary of our head coach.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
The Big 12 doesn't sound very interested in expanding. Want a big reason why? Look at the prospective revenue numbers from the new playoff, via colleague Brett McMurphy.
From 2014-25, the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will earn an average of at least $91 million annually, sources told ESPN. By comparison, the average for the group of five -- Big East, Mountain West, Mid-American, Conference USA and Sun Belt -- during that 12-year period will be about $17.25 million annually.
The BCS recently signed a 12-year contract with ESPN. The deal averages $470 million annually, sources said. Of that amount, about $125 million is expected to go toward expenses, including an academic reward component, game participation, team expenses, allotment to Football Championship Subdivision conferences and other items.
That's big money, and that's only for the new postseason. Never mind all the TV money rolling in for the Big 12. For the 14-team leagues like the SEC and Big Ten, that's only $6.5 million more per school.
In the Big 12, that's $9.1 million per school. That's a big, big difference. Schools take notice, too. That $2.6 million extra can go a long way.
For whatever money the Big 12 earns, there are fewer "slices of pie" and fewer "mouths to feed."
In situations like this, that kind of thing shows.
LINK One thing you are ignoring is the Big 12, without expanding, cannot have a conference championship game. The CCG offsets a good portion of that difference. I am not sure that is true. One of the reasons the Big 12 is having games scheduled later than we normally would is to offset not having a championship game. I think next year we have a game on Dec 6th or 7th, whatever that weekend is with, I think, three bye weeks in our schedule. This spreads out the season and we have games to play on the weekend that would normally be the championship game weekend. Last year we played OU the weekend following Thanksgiving weekend. The game was played the same day a couple other conferences were playing conference championship games. This offsets some of the revenue you are talking about. The difference would pretty minimal per team imo. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:05 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
garywz wrote:
chomper76 wrote:
OrangeAggie wrote: $9.1 million per team in the Big 12 is better than $6.5 million in the SEC. That difference right there nearly pays the salary of our head coach.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
The Big 12 doesn't sound very interested in expanding. Want a big reason why? Look at the prospective revenue numbers from the new playoff, via colleague Brett McMurphy.
From 2014-25, the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC will earn an average of at least $91 million annually, sources told ESPN. By comparison, the average for the group of five -- Big East, Mountain West, Mid-American, Conference USA and Sun Belt -- during that 12-year period will be about $17.25 million annually.
The BCS recently signed a 12-year contract with ESPN. The deal averages $470 million annually, sources said. Of that amount, about $125 million is expected to go toward expenses, including an academic reward component, game participation, team expenses, allotment to Football Championship Subdivision conferences and other items.
That's big money, and that's only for the new postseason. Never mind all the TV money rolling in for the Big 12. For the 14-team leagues like the SEC and Big Ten, that's only $6.5 million more per school.
In the Big 12, that's $9.1 million per school. That's a big, big difference. Schools take notice, too. That $2.6 million extra can go a long way.
For whatever money the Big 12 earns, there are fewer "slices of pie" and fewer "mouths to feed."
In situations like this, that kind of thing shows.
LINK One thing you are ignoring is the Big 12, without expanding, cannot have a conference championship game. The CCG offsets a good portion of that difference. I am not sure that is true. One of the reasons the Big 12 is having games scheduled later than we normally would is to offset not having a championship game. I think next year we have a game on Dec 6th or 7th, whatever that weekend is with, I think, three bye weeks in our schedule. This spreads out the season and we have games to play on the weekend that would normally be the championship game weekend. Last year we played OU the weekend following Thanksgiving weekend. The game was played the same day a couple other conferences were playing conference championship games. This offsets some of the revenue you are talking about. The difference would pretty minimal per team imo. That does nothing to increase the total number of games. The Big 12 knows that if they don't have games on the same weekend as the Big 10 and SEC championship games, they will fall farther behind in the public eye. It doesn't offset an extra national stage game the Big 12 had with the CCG. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:06 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
Tuloma wrote:
CowboySterk wrote: To me expanding is a no-brainer.
$2.6 million could be made up for by adding two teams and at least getting 12 for a conference championship game. The Conference Championship game would pay out another 2 million or so per the contract in place. So, you are talking 600K to at least keep up with the Smiths in expansion. The TV networks aren't going to be happy if you don't add at this point, and the next contract we get could be horrible unless we expand. Expanding at that point may suck, because there will likely be no good teams left...
Expansion has to happen pretty much before 2014 change to playoff, the big conferences will lock in their teams with absurd buyouts, and those left out will be out for good with a few not so great teams floating around.
The best option is go to 12, or even 14 or 16 at this point when you may be able to pull some great teams. To my knowledge, because of the payouts the Big XII has never actively approached FSU or Clemson. If we ever got those two, it would open the doors to Notre Dame, Ga Tech, and several other ACC schools that are valuable and would make a nice Eastern Division in the Big XII for WVU.
2.5 mil is a decent amount, but the Big XII Champ game would have a payout, and you could possibly approach teams that could hold their space well and not make the payout decrease. The TV reps may have enough interest in the Big XII expanding to pay more anyways. One article I read said that if the Big12 added two teams, revenue would have to increase by $60 million to break even. Not likey to happen
Also, when the /big12 had a CCG IIRC the grand total was $6-8 million paid to the conference....not all that much per team That was under an old deal. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:07 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
---------------------------------------------
--- CaliforniaCowboy wrote:
I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us.
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It won't, I think not having a CCG actually helps us
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:53 AM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
For those who think 'STATUS QUO is the way to go'... don't forget the old adage that "the only constant is change". That is the mentality that caught our conference flatfooted TWICE and scrambling for stability. Granted, signing away TV rights brings stability - got it! But what about relevancy? There was a time the Texas schools all thought the status quo was fine when Arkansas left.... who needed them? The Southwest Conference was full of tradition, Heisman trophies, MNCs etc. But the landscape changed. The importance of TV revenues changed that, but they held onto the way things were.... then they began to loose recruits, then wins, then relevancy... BigXII to the rescue.... and with it, long overdue required change. Now, we think we have the TV revenue thing answered. We are bound together through granting of TV rights, nothing can change that... fine. But with the coming playoff scenerio, we could be found flatfooted for a THIRD time and left scrambling to add teams... or not, and be left out of consideration. On this thread I see discussions of $6.5 vs $9.1 mil per team... well that is changing and we'll be left far behind if we don't play along (ala SWC). The Big1G is looking at $40 mil per team... ( The Big Ten, already the richest conference in the nation, will be negotiating a new media rights deal in 2017, and it is expected to pay each school more than $40 million annually). Keep the $9.1 and fall behind!!! The terrain is changing. We can stick to our guns and become the new SWC!!! |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:57 AM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
CaliforniaCowboy wrote:
mbkburke wrote:
CaliforniaCowboy wrote:I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. Right now with the TV contracts, it doesnt. But what happens when all of that gets renewed or restructured. Im not saying it will happen for sure. Just we do not know what the future brings, other than there is a good chance super conferences are on the way. yeah... big TV demand for Northwestern versus Maryland
I'm not buying it. The demographic footprint of the Big 10 vs. the Big 12's not even a contest. That's why their network's raking in the cash. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:03 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
lots of speculation and conjecture... does anybody know what the B1G "media rights deal" might include? Don't they have the B1G Network, so it that part of the "deal package".
I just want to ensure that we're comparing apples to apples in these discussions.
$40 million annually, for what? How does that compare to what the B12 can do with their "media rights" whatever that is (e.g., longhorn network, gooner network, OSU Cowboy properties, etc.)
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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:13 PM
Re: Why the Big 12 Won't Expand - $$$
CaliforniaCowboy wrote:
mbkburke wrote:
CaliforniaCowboy wrote: I don't understand how staying at 10 teams would ever hurt us. Right now with the TV contracts, it doesnt. But what happens when all of that gets renewed or restructured. Im not saying it will happen for sure. Just we do not know what the future brings, other than there is a good chance super conferences are on the way. yeah... big TV demand for Northwestern versus Maryland
I'm not buying it. Not to long ago, OSU vs Baylor was the same situation
Last edited 12/13/2012 12:13 PM by mbkburke
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