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Holder and his honest conversation about race

Posted: 08/27/2014 7:31 AM

Holder and his honest conversation about race 


The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men.  

"Not safe for white men"
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Posted: 08/27/2014 9:23 AM

????? 


Was that the story you intended to link?

What does the story have to do with Eric Holder?     I haven't seen stories about his "honest conversation" about race....

navy9t1 wrote: The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men.  

"Not safe for white men"
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Posted: 08/27/2014 9:42 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 




Yes, all you brave black racist violent model citizens, please turn yourselves in voluntarily.*

Otherwise we will miss out on free waffles.  Too many Dunkin donuts Chief?







*P.S. - And to this let me add a life affirming suggestion, especially for women.  Go out
and buy a handgun for personal protection (e.g., a Lady Smith Wesson .38) if you don't already have one.  Consider Gold Dot .38SPL&p 135 gr or Winchester 38special +P 130 grain ammo.  Better yet, ask yer local dealer for personal protection ammo recommendations.  If you buy then go to a local range and get professional instruction, and practice, practice, practice.  Consider applying for a CCP, but ask around first to ascertain your Sheriff or local law enforcement's attitude towards granting a CCP.  Do this because you care about life: yours, and those of your loved ones.

Last edited 08/27/2014 12:48 PM by DevilMayCare2

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Posted: 08/27/2014 9:49 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 



DevilMayCare2 wrote:

Yes, all you brave black racist violent model citizens, please turn yourselves in voluntarily.

Otherwise we will miss out on free waffles.  Too many Dunkin donuts Chief?

Is that really necessary here?

Or are you under the impression that there aren't a lot of WHITE racist violent model citizens??
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:03 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 


What are the relevant statistics?

Based solely on the "facts" reported in that story, it would obviously be a hate crime.  But there's no point in making assumptions or rushing to judgment before all, or at least more, of the evidence is in.

 

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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:11 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 



CJ90 wrote: What are the relevant statistics?

Based solely on the "facts" reported in that story, it would obviously be a hate crime.  But there's no point in making assumptions or rushing to judgment before all, or at least more, of the evidence is in.

good points CJ, but if this board didn't assume or rush to judgment or it waited til the evidence was in, the volume of posts would dramatically decline
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:45 AM

Re: ????? 


Yes, correct story.  Holder referred to America as "essentially a nation of cowards" unwilling to have an honest conversation about race.  

An honest conversation about race would acknowledge that black men are victims - but not of white cops or white racists.  Black men are the victims and / or perpetrators of the collapse of the black family, and all the social dysfunction that has spawned.  Black men slaughter each other by the thousands, but Holder's honest conversation about race doesn't want to focus on that.   Black men are far more likely to assault white men than they are to be assaulted by white men, as in the linked story, but Holder's honest conversation about race doesn't want to focus on that.   Black men being killed by white policemen is a statistical outlier - but that's what fires up the racial grievance machine, so he puts 50 FBI agents on the investigation.  


RMOTKING wrote: Was that the story you intended to link?

What does the story have to do with Eric Holder?     I haven't seen stories about his "honest conversation" about race....

navy9t1 wrote: The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men.  

"Not safe for white men"
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:49 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 




Um, yes.  I believe there is a HUGE disparity in perception, treatment and behavior of black racism vs. white racism, and that in the name of "past discrimination" the federal gov't, in particular, has turned a blind eye to basic fairness when it comes to law enforcement.  And, at this stage anyways, the media (no personal attack intended), routinely hides identifying information when the perp or perps is black.  Some see this as a "reaction" to "white" guilt others posit other rationales.  I don't see how disparate treatment based on "race" in our public institutions and/or media promotes MLK, Jr.'s dream that people be judged on the content of their character rather than on the color of his or her skin.  It's hypocritical, cowardly and dishonest to do so, and is intuitive of real racism and a disbelief that people, particularly black people, are capable of changed behavior based on right and wrong.

I find the Chief's particular comments as noted to be ludicrous.  But that's just based on my experience, admittedly far more on the civil side of life.
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:57 AM

The relevant statistics 


See FBI crime rates by race here.

FBI

193 black victims murdered by white perps, and 2447 black victims murdered by black perps. I'm not a professional mathematician, but I think black men are far more likely to be killed by black men than white men..   Eric Holder doesn't want to have an honest conversation about race.




CJ90 wrote: What are the relevant statistics?

Based solely on the "facts" reported in that story, it would obviously be a hate crime.  But there's no point in making assumptions or rushing to judgment before all, or at least more, of the evidence is in.
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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:12 AM

Re: The relevant statistics 


Disagree with everybody. 

Honest conversations go on all the time. In fact, it's pretty much non-stop.

But I don't think that Holder is engaging in one.

In fact, I have the dismal expectation that Obama, Holder, and the others will more and more play the race card as criticism for substantive failings piles up, particularly with ISIS. He will do this without the slightest concern of how divisive it really is.

You may put the knock on Bush, but his vigor and tenacity in these matters was outstanding. The trick in any position of authority is to assimilate advice without being knocked off your perch. Obama lacks that quality.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:15 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 


FOR HOLDER AND OBAMA, AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE STARTS WITH THE DEFAULT POSITION THAT RACISM EXISTS SOLELY BECAUSE WHITE EUROPEANS RUINED EVERYTHING.
"...I thought something is brewing inside the head of this Coach. He sees something in me, some kind of raw talent that he can mold. But that's when I felt the handcuffs go on."

Jack Handy
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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:22 AM

Re: The relevant statistics 


The statement in your original post was: "The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men."

Was that a typo?  Should the first "white" have been "black", instead?  (I assume so, given the particular stat you just cited.)

 

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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:31 AM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 




Well your disagreement with everybody includes Emerson who wrote, "A foolish consistency

is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." 

I don't think it is a mistake necessarily for a leader to change his mind or position based on

better data over time.  But I am thinking Obama and/or Holder may hire you to write the

next autobiography allowing you to explain to everybody why each did what he did, and why

each didn't do what he didn't do when this administration expires.

Last edited 08/27/2014 12:19 PM by DevilMayCare2

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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:54 AM

The statement stands 


The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men.  That's my statement, and I stand by it. 

I cant break out the statistics by race and sex for both victim and perp, but this seems pretty conclusive to me.   See page 11 linked below.  

In 2008, the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per 100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100,000)

 


BJS






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Posted: 08/27/2014 1:28 PM

Re: The statement stands 


Look, I'm not disagreeing with you.  I have no idea.  I just asked for the actual stats, and what you responded with was a bit of a non-sequiter, that's all.

 

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Posted: 08/27/2014 5:53 PM

Re: ????? 




Fair enough....  I appreciate the context.  

Is Holder's "Nation of cowards" quote new/recent,  or does it date back a number of years?

I'd like to look at stories that covered the speech where he said that.    Because I think your observations -- while correct -- are more of the tip of the iceberg, and that there's much more to the problem that Holder doesn't want to recognize...

I'll try to google and see what I can find....   thanks to anyone who can offer a link or a suggestion...

navy9t1 wrote: Yes, correct story.  Holder referred to America as "essentially a nation of cowards" unwilling to have an honest conversation about race.  

An honest conversation about race would acknowledge that black men are victims - but not of white cops or white racists.  Black men are the victims and / or perpetrators of the collapse of the black family, and all the social dysfunction that has spawned.  Black men slaughter each other by the thousands, but Holder's honest conversation about race doesn't want to focus on that.   Black men are far more likely to assault white men than they are to be assaulted by white men, as in the linked story, but Holder's honest conversation about race doesn't want to focus on that.   Black men being killed by white policemen is a statistical outlier - but that's what fires up the racial grievance machine, so he puts 50 FBI agents on the investigation.  


RMOTKING wrote: Was that the story you intended to link?

What does the story have to do with Eric Holder?     I haven't seen stories about his "honest conversation" about race....

navy9t1 wrote: The observable reality is, white men are far more likely to be assaulted by black men than black men are to be assaulted by white men.  

"Not safe for white men"
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Posted: 08/27/2014 8:28 PM

Here are some stats to start an honest conversation 



CJ90 wrote: Look, I'm not disagreeing with you.  I have no idea.  I just asked for the actual stats, and what you responded with was a bit of a non-sequiter, that's all.

 

Income:

Among the race groups, Asian households had the highest median income in 2012 ($68,636). The median income for non-Hispanic White households was $57,009, and it was $33,321 for Black households. For Hispanic households the median income was $39,005. Link

Wealth:

Whites’ share of the nation’s wealth is 31 percent greater than their share of the nation’s population. Blacks’ share of the nation’s wealth is 80 percent less than their share of the population. That is, to bring their share of the wealth in line with their share of the population, you’d need to increase black wealth five-fold. Hispanics’ share of the nation’s wealth is 72 percent less than their share of the population. To bring their share of the wealth in line with their share of the population, you’d need to increase it by 3.5x. Link.

Incarceration:

Approximately 12%-13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 40% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison (U.S. Department of Justice, 2009). Link.


What race problem? No, there are not simple reasons or easy answers. But excuse me if I shed no tears for the American white male.

Last edited 08/27/2014 8:32 PM by standfan

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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:11 PM

Re: Holder and his honest conversation about race 



I don't know if you don't know how to use the quote function,  or you just don't think it's necessary....

But I have no idea who you're responding to....   and I'm not sure anyone else here would either...

Who are you talking to?
DevilMayCare2 wrote:

Well your disagreement with everybody includes Emerson who wrote, "A foolish consistency

is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." 

I don't think it is a mistake necessarily for a leader to change his mind or position based on

better data over time.  But I am thinking Obama and/or Holder may hire you to write the

next autobiography allowing you to explain to everybody why each did what he did, and why

each didn't do what he didn't do when this administration expires.
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:32 PM

Re: The relevant statistics 



Genuine Realist wrote: Disagree with everybody..... 

......The trick in any position of authority is to assimilate advice without being knocked off your perch. Obama lacks that quality.....
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Posted: 08/28/2014 10:09 AM

There actually is a simple reason and an easy answer 


Wealth disparity has almost nothing to do with race, and almost everything to do with behavioral and cultural norms.  Find me a well educated, law abiding, married black man, and my guess is he will also be well employed and well compensated.  The problem here is not race.  The problem is culture and behavior.

Your statistics included Asian American per capita income, but left out Asian American share of national wealth relative to percentage of population.   I assume Asian Americans have a high share of national wealth relative to their population, and I assume that share is growing.  

I don't plan to modely my parenting on the Asia Tiger Mom model - but clearly, that model of parenting results in an output of well educated, well employed, well behaved, and well compensated citizens.  

To me, Beyonce looks, acts, and talks like a whore.  It would never occur to me to even associate with, let alone hire, someone who dresses like a stripper and sings songs with lyrics like "Bow down, *****", or "Getting Monka Lewinsky'd" in the back of a limo.    

But according to Barack Obama, "Beyoncé could not be a better role model for my girls,"

That's the problem.  The most visible and powerful black man in the history of America thinks that Beyonce is a perfect role model.  I may not raise my kids like Amy Chua, but I sure as hell am going to have better role models for them than Beyonce.
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