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Tawana Brawley Rides Again

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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:02 PM

Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


The first autopsy of Michael Brown and shows . . . he suffered six wounds. ALL of them were in front of his body (he was not fleeing), four hit him in the right arm, and it was the last that was fatal. Here's the link (note the headline the NYT chose to use).

This does not close the case, as it also does not completely match the cop's account of a struggle at close quarters. But it does make hash of the eyewitness accounts (all of whom were friends of Brown) of a kid fleeing, hands up, trying to surrender, etc. Quite candidly, it seems to show they were lying through their teeth - and the MSM swallowed the bait whole.

This is serious stuff - any time you have an unarmed person killed by a police officer it is extremely serious. But it is is a long, long way from the wanton recklessness that was first postured. The inference is very strong that Brown resisted to some degree. Whether lethal force is justified is a real question. But this is hardly the scandal first reported.

Brown, btw, was 6-2, and 292(!) pounds. According to the same set of witnesses, he was a 'shy, quiet' teenager who lived with his grandmother. But you have all seen the strong arm video.  No one in the neighborhood even tried to be truthful.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:06 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



Genuine Realist wrote: The first autopsy of Michael Brown and shows . . . he suffered six wounds. ALL of them were in front of his body (he was not fleeing), four hit him in the right arm, and it was the last that was fatal. Here's the link (note the headline the NYT chose to use).

This does not close the case, as it also does not completely match the cop's account of a struggle at close quarters. But it does make hash of the eyewitness accounts (all of whom were friends of Brown) of a kid fleeing, hands up, trying to surrender, etc. Quite candidly, it seems to show they were lying through their teeth - and the MSM swallowed the bait whole.

This is serious stuff - any time you have an unarmed person killed by a police officer it is extremely serious. But it is is a long, long way from the wanton recklessness that was first postured. The inference is very strong that Brown resisted to some degree. Whether lethal force is justified is a real question. But this is hardly the scandal first reported.

Brown, btw, was 6-2, and 292(!) pounds. According to the same set of witnesses, he was a 'shy, quiet' teenager who lived with his grandmother. But you have all seen the strong arm video.  No one in the neighborhood even tried to be truthful.
Doesn't matter GM.  The story has already been written.  It cannot be changed.

"I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made today."

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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:12 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


There I do disagree. Tawana Brawley changed a lot.

Here, I think the strong arm video brought a lot of people to a screeching halt. An autopsy that shows the witnesses were lying in large part will also have an effect.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:30 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



Genuine Realist wrote: The first autopsy of Michael Brown and shows . . . he suffered six wounds. ALL of them were in front of his body (he was not fleeing), four hit him in the right arm, and it was the last that was fatal. Here's the link (note the headline the NYT chose to use).

This does not close the case, as it also does not completely match the cop's account of a struggle at close quarters. But it does make hash of the eyewitness accounts (all of whom were friends of Brown) of a kid fleeing, hands up, trying to surrender, etc. Quite candidly, it seems to show they were lying through their teeth - and the MSM swallowed the bait whole.

This is serious stuff - any time you have an unarmed person killed by a police officer it is extremely serious. But it is is a long, long way from the wanton recklessness that was first postured. The inference is very strong that Brown resisted to some degree. Whether lethal force is justified is a real question. But this is hardly the scandal first reported.

Brown, btw, was 6-2, and 292(!) pounds. According to the same set of witnesses, he was a 'shy, quiet' teenager who lived with his grandmother. But you have all seen the strong arm video.  No one in the neighborhood even tried to be truthful.

I think we need to be careful here.  It makes hash of the part about Brown being shot while fleeing Wilson, but not necessarily about his trying to surrender, arms up (at some point).  In fairness, though, the apparent falsity of the claims that Brown was shot while fleeing obviously calls into question the veracity of any and all parts of the witnesses' stories, including parts about Brown attempting to surrender and having arms up.

FWLIW, I'm still open to almost the entire range possibilities suggested by witnesses (including Wilson himself), except, now, the shot while fleeing part.  And those possibilities include some of the more extreme (but extremely unlikely) scenarios, including, at one end of the spectrum, that Wilson committed first degree murder by shooting someone who no longer could be reasonably viewed as posing a threat (if he ever did), or, at the other end of the spectrum, that Brown attacked Wilson, went for his gun or otherwise posed a very real threat of death or SBI to Wilson and more or less got exactly what he had coming to him.  

 

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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:31 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 




The Media got the story wrong???!  What a scandal.
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Posted: 08/17/2014 9:42 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



CJ90 wrote:
Genuine Realist wrote: The first autopsy of Michael Brown and shows . . . he suffered six wounds. ALL of them were in front of his body (he was not fleeing), four hit him in the right arm, and it was the last that was fatal. Here's the link (note the headline the NYT chose to use).

This does not close the case, as it also does not completely match the cop's account of a struggle at close quarters. But it does make hash of the eyewitness accounts (all of whom were friends of Brown) of a kid fleeing, hands up, trying to surrender, etc. Quite candidly, it seems to show they were lying through their teeth - and the MSM swallowed the bait whole.

This is serious stuff - any time you have an unarmed person killed by a police officer it is extremely serious. But it is is a long, long way from the wanton recklessness that was first postured. The inference is very strong that Brown resisted to some degree. Whether lethal force is justified is a real question. But this is hardly the scandal first reported.

Brown, btw, was 6-2, and 292(!) pounds. According to the same set of witnesses, he was a 'shy, quiet' teenager who lived with his grandmother. But you have all seen the strong arm video.  No one in the neighborhood even tried to be truthful.

I think we need to be careful here.  It makes hash of the part about Brown being shot while fleeing Wilson, but not necessarily about his trying to surrender, arms up (at some point).  In fairness, though, the apparent falsity of the claims that Brown was shot while fleeing obviously calls into question the veracity of any and all parts of the witnesses' stories, including parts about Brown attempting to surrender and having arms up.

FWLIW, I'm still open to almost the entire range possibilities suggested by witnesses (including Wilson himself), except, now, the shot while fleeing part.  And those possibilities include some of the more extreme (but extremely unlikely) scenarios, including, at one end of the spectrum, that Wilson committed first degree murder by shooting someone who no longer could be reasonably viewed as posing a threat (if he ever did), or, at the other end of the spectrum, that Brown attacked Wilson, went for his gun or otherwise posed a very real threat of death or SBI to Wilson and more or less got exactly what he had coming to him.  

A cop shooting a kid with his hands up? For no good reason whatsoever? With no regard to who was watching? Counterintuitive in the extreme. First degree murder just doesn't happen all that often, and particularly in full view of a number of witnesses (they may have not been immediately visible, but it was in an open neighborhood and this would be madness). 

Some resistance is quite plausible, particularly after seeing the strong arm video. But he question of lethal force remains open and might lead to a manslaughter verdict. If the officer's face shows signs of beating and struggle (and it is customary to take pictures even in domestic cases), that would go a long way in his behalf.

One of the witnesses, last name Johnson, who gives the most garish account, is wholly unworthy of belief. I don't know about the others.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 08/17/2014 10:02 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



Genuine Realist wrote:
CJ90 wrote:
Genuine Realist wrote: The first autopsy of Michael Brown and shows . . . he suffered six wounds. ALL of them were in front of his body (he was not fleeing), four hit him in the right arm, and it was the last that was fatal. Here's the link (note the headline the NYT chose to use).

This does not close the case, as it also does not completely match the cop's account of a struggle at close quarters. But it does make hash of the eyewitness accounts (all of whom were friends of Brown) of a kid fleeing, hands up, trying to surrender, etc. Quite candidly, it seems to show they were lying through their teeth - and the MSM swallowed the bait whole.

This is serious stuff - any time you have an unarmed person killed by a police officer it is extremely serious. But it is is a long, long way from the wanton recklessness that was first postured. The inference is very strong that Brown resisted to some degree. Whether lethal force is justified is a real question. But this is hardly the scandal first reported.

Brown, btw, was 6-2, and 292(!) pounds. According to the same set of witnesses, he was a 'shy, quiet' teenager who lived with his grandmother. But you have all seen the strong arm video.  No one in the neighborhood even tried to be truthful.

I think we need to be careful here.  It makes hash of the part about Brown being shot while fleeing Wilson, but not necessarily about his trying to surrender, arms up (at some point).  In fairness, though, the apparent falsity of the claims that Brown was shot while fleeing obviously calls into question the veracity of any and all parts of the witnesses' stories, including parts about Brown attempting to surrender and having arms up.

FWLIW, I'm still open to almost the entire range possibilities suggested by witnesses (including Wilson himself), except, now, the shot while fleeing part.  And those possibilities include some of the more extreme (but extremely unlikely) scenarios, including, at one end of the spectrum, that Wilson committed first degree murder by shooting someone who no longer could be reasonably viewed as posing a threat (if he ever did), or, at the other end of the spectrum, that Brown attacked Wilson, went for his gun or otherwise posed a very real threat of death or SBI to Wilson and more or less got exactly what he had coming to him.  

A cop shooting a kid with his hands up? For no good reason whatsoever? With no regard to who was watching? Counterintuitive in the extreme. First degree murder just doesn't happen all that often, and particularly in full view of a number of witnesses (they may have not been immediately visible, but it was in an open neighborhood and this would be madness). 

Some resistance is quite plausible, particularly after seeing the strong arm video. But he question of lethal force remains open and might lead to a manslaughter verdict. If the officer's face shows signs of beating and struggle (and it is customary to take pictures even in domestic cases), that would go a long way in his behalf.

One of the witnesses, last name Johnson, who gives the most garish account, is wholly unworthy of belief. I don't know about the others.
Well, as I stated above, I described that scenario as "extremely unlikely".  You can feel free to dismiss it entirely, assigning it literally a 0% probability, but I'll reserve it as an extremely remote possibility.  

By the way, the first degree scenario -- counterintuitive as it is -- doesn't involve your classic cold-blooded execution, in this case in utter disregard of witnesses, etc., but one in which there was an altercation and the cop, hopped up on adrenaline, couldn't regain control of his emotions quickly enough once the deceased suddenly went into surrender mode.  Which of course would more typically be considered second degree, as a practical matter, even if there's a technical argument to be made for first degree (you know, typical law school exam fodder).  Then again, that's about as much effort as I want to waste on a scenario which, to reiterate, I think is extremely unlikely to have been the case.

 

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Posted: 08/17/2014 10:20 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


Most cop-killings that could be characterized as crimes involve the use of excessive force in response to force. Anything is possible, but the use of lethal force against someone actually surrendering, i.e., using no force, is at an extreme level of improbability.

What I am wondering about is how close the quarters were. This was an awfully big guy, and aggressive. I can see the cop firing as he gets close, then gilding the lily as to how close. It is also interesting that a man coming forward aggressively would also raise his hands. But it's not  a gesture of surrender. It's preparation to strike a blow.

But I have just about written off the eyewitnesses. I believe they are exploiting the situation.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

Last edited 08/17/2014 10:38 PM by Genuine Realist

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Posted: 08/18/2014 4:32 AM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


Four hits in the arm and his arms were raised?  

What?  Are we supposed to think the officer was firing warning shots?
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Posted: 08/18/2014 6:53 AM

Quiet GR - Snitches get Stitches! 


As near as I can tell, no national news outlet is reporting that the Quik Trip that was looted and burned early on was spray painted to remind you to keep quiet about the truth. Don't destroy the narrative, or you could hurt Benjamin Crump's ability to cash in.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/11/quiktrip-sprayed-with-graffiti-set-on-fire-during-overnight-looting-near-ferguson/

Also, I've noted that since Friday morning all references to Mike Brown as being a "gentle giant" have ceased. Really shameful that the authorities would release a video of him shoving a store clerk. Very unfair.

Last edited 08/18/2014 9:22 AM by Cliff Speed

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Posted: 08/18/2014 7:30 AM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


Stopping shots.

However, I am learning that the cop said he only fired once (don't have a link), and that isn't good for him.

This is Trayvon Martin all over again, in the sense that 'kid glove' handling is leading to a fiasco. Either charge the officer (if the forensics don't bear him out), or release the evidence that DOES justify his actions (e.g., photos of his uniform and bruised face). And four days and they haven't tested for gunpowder residue?

Really stupid PR, whatever the reality.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

Last edited 08/18/2014 8:40 AM by Genuine Realist

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Posted: 08/18/2014 10:25 AM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


I am suspicious of the police because they have not released an official autopsy or report on the shooting. They have also not released any information on the injuries that Wilson may or may not have sustained from the wrestling that supposedly happened at the police car.  Was no one scratched or bruised?  I am also suspicious because they released the strong arm robbery video but then stated that Wilson was not aware that Brown was the man in the strong arm video. That clearly seems to be an effort to discredit a dead man and no effort to actually be forthcoming.

I do not believe that the gunshots from the front prove anything either way.  My understanding is that Brown was running away and is reported to have stopped running at some time after being fired at.  Then, he put his hands up to surrender.  If he was shot while turning around to surrender, he has an entry wound from the front, but that looks really bad for the officer.  It may have been a justifiable shooting, but it is an unarmed man being shot 6 times by an officer and so far, a police department that doesn't seem very transparent.
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Posted: 08/18/2014 11:17 AM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


I haven't seen where the officer said he fired once.  that seems to be something that is empirically verifiable... At the very least, there would be shell casings.

I had heard that he had fired only 3 times.  It's understandable that an entry/exit/entry/exist from a bullet or two (e.g., into and out of an arm and then into and out of the torso) could confuse the autopsy which says 6 shots (at least the headlines do)...but one shot?  Not a chance.  

If that's the case, then this thing will just get worse.
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Posted: 08/18/2014 2:51 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


My initial sympathy for the officer, based on the ludicrous mischaracterization of this Brown as a gentle giant (thug and bully is more like it) has eroded. There is just to much unexplained.

And the Ferguson police department is just a disaster, beginning with why a lone officer is dispatched to arrest a man of this stature, up to and including buttoning down on information. Either arrest the cop or explain to the public art you are not.

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 08/18/2014 3:30 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


An aside.  In Santa Rosa an officer killed a 13 year old back in Oct.   Shooting the boy who was carrying a toy gun but without the orange plug, 8 times, including twice in the back.    That officer is in his his first day back on patrol duty, no charges filed.     

Back to Ferguson.
Thank ya, thank ya kindly
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Posted: 08/18/2014 3:47 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



Bobbk wrote: An aside.  In Santa Rosa an officer killed a 13 year old back in Oct.   Shooting the boy who was carrying a toy gun but without the orange plug, 8 times, including twice in the back.    That officer is in his his first day back on patrol duty, no charges filed.     

Back to Ferguson.
I took a Sociology of Crime class in college, and part of the class was to do a ride-along.  A friend of mine had joined a patrol car in east San Jose in a crappy area.  There was reports of a person in a field shooting a rifle.  The patrol car goes out and after the two cops repeatedly order my friend to stay in the car, they came upon the field in twilight.  They come up on the person (back to the cops) and order him to drop the rifle.  He turns around in surprise, leveling what looks like a rifle at the cops.  The cops start screaming at him to drop the rifle and hit the ground.

Turned out to be a 14 year old with a pellet rifle and scope (why you would need a scope on a pellet gun I have no idea, it would be fundamentally useless).  But the cops exhibited admirable restraint in a situation in which an individual leveled a firearm at them.

Man, you couldn't pay me enough to do that job.
"Après moi le déluge" Louis XV
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Posted: 08/18/2014 3:51 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


Very tough job.  My ride along was in Sunnyvale.   One minor event.   I could get out.  biggrin
Thank ya, thank ya kindly
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Posted: 08/18/2014 4:08 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


Public info.....The officer was not dispatched to the Strong Arm robbery incident.  Also he was not aware of the incident.  He came upon the soon to be deceased and an associate walking down the center of the street.  He claims he told them to get out of the street.  Confrontation ensued.

I'm not taking sides, I have no flaming idea what happened; but I can't comprehend needing to use that much force.
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Posted: 08/18/2014 4:58 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 



BearDadCardFan wrote: 
I'm not taking sides, I have no flaming idea what happened; but I can't comprehend needing to use that much force.
That's just it....  Once the officer pulls and fires the weapon, he's going to fire until the threat stops.  

It's not "that much force" to shoot six times if the threat hasn't stopped. 

A lot of people have a very "hollywood" driven sense of what a handgun can do to a person.  Absent a central nervous system hit or a crippling hit direct to the heart or pelvic girdle, a person can go a long way and do a lot of damage with a lot of handgun bullets in him.   

Nowhere in life do people get more frequently and cleanly misled than on the power of firearms.  How many times a day does TV depict a handgun bullet knocking a person back onto their back with a shot?  If that were the case, Newton would tell us that the person firing the handgun should be on his A** as well.  The force of the bullet is equal or less than the force of the recoiling handgun, only placed in a much smaller radius. 

Much more important to ****** whether the use of force was warranted than to get into a debate about "how much force" was used, since the cop is going to use what force is necessary to stop the threat.  If that means shooting 13 times and reloading, so be it.
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Posted: 08/18/2014 5:21 PM

Re: Tawana Brawley Rides Again 


There is a thought that the officer spotted the cigarillos, put two and two together, and decided to arrest.

Good police work, to that point - but after that I am absolutely baffled. The guy was big and well built. Why not either call for fill, or . . . 

When I was a public defender, I was involved in a gang rape involving three guys who kidnapped a 15 year old girl off the street. (Welcome to my world). They were arrested by a solo patrol officer, who pulled his weapon, made all three of them go prone, secured the victim, and called other units with his free (non-gun) hand. (BTW, to say the jury fell in love with him would understate the case considerably). And I have known of other such.

Why not here? What's going on? He orders Brown to the pavement, calls for back-up and waits. There may be some restless people around him, but no one's going to get killed. So what was he trying to do? And what do the forensics indicate? The Ferguson PD seems to be getting incredibly inept PR advice. 

It's not necessarily the case that every time a cop unholsters his weapon, it's with an intent to empty the magazine. That is true when he (or she) intends to fire it. But there are all sorts of occasions when the weapon is used to subdue without force. (By the way, in San Jose, EVERY time a cop pulls a gun, the incident is reviewed at commander level).

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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