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I guess its fine to make sexist remarks...

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Posted: 08/01/2014 2:48 PM

I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 


as long as you are a woman and the sexist remarks are directed at men.

Ginsburg

"I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made today."

Last edited 08/01/2014 2:54 PM by lex24

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Posted: 08/01/2014 3:02 PM

I don't know what you mean, Lex 


After all, she did imply that the male USSC justices weren't too stupid to learn.  Thought that was mighty big of her.
lex24 wrote: as long as you are a woman and the sexist remarks are directed at men.

Ginsburg
"Après moi le déluge" Louis XV
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Posted: 08/01/2014 11:39 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 




"If the case is properly before the Court".  What a hypocrite.  As if Obama's citizenship and eligibility were not properly before the Scotus multiple if not tens of times. 

Standing is a handy, Judge made rule, to avoid taking any responsibility.

Who the hell does she think she's kidding???
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Posted: 08/04/2014 8:57 AM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 


how was what she said sexist?

our state of grace is gone.

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Posted: 08/04/2014 5:30 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 


Flip the hand and tell Ginsburg she has a blindspot on women's rights or that she needs to live and learn.  The Feminazis would go postal.  Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.  If she meant it only relating to the old dudes in black dresses, then it was one of the most sub-judicial and condescending public remarks every by a supreme. 

You can test my hypothesis.  Find your local NOW or NARAL rep and them them their constitutional position demonstrates a blindspot.  Be sure to film it because I'd like to watch.cool

"Do unto those downstream as you would have those upstream do unto you."
--Wendell Berry, Stegner Fellow '58, Poet/Farmer

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Posted: 08/04/2014 5:53 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



oline84 wrote:
Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.
There's no way you can claim that the context of this decision and the world view of its judges don't make a difference.

Imagine the defendant didn't want to pay for birth control coverage because sharia law forbid it.  You can damn well be sure the right-wing talk show hosts would have been yelling that he needs to follow the same laws as the rest of America, even if he disagreed with them.  And it's likely at least one justice would have voted the other way.

It's not a question of the ability of the judges be fair.  It's an acknowledgement that your world view is shaped by your experiences.  Gender is a part of that.  Race is too, which is what Sotomayor's "wise Latina" comment was trying to get at.

As a white male I probably would have argued with those assertions until I married someone of a different race and saw the world through her eyes.

Last edited 08/04/2014 6:03 PM by ccTop

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Posted: 08/04/2014 6:04 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



ccTop wrote:
oline84 wrote:
Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.
There's no way you can claim that the context of this decision and the world view of its judges don't make a difference.

If the defendant were an Arab-American who wanted to deny birth control coverage because of his belief in sharia law, you can damn well be sure the case would have been decided the other way and the right-wing talk show hosts would be cheering it.

It's not a question of the ability of the judges be fair.  It's an acknowledgement that your world view is shaped by your experiences.  Gender is a part of that.  Race is too, which is what Sotomayor's "wise Latina" comment was trying to get at.

As a white male I probably would have argued with those assertions until I married someone of a different race and saw the world through her eyes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't it certain types of birth control? Like the ones that prevent a fertilized egg from implanting? Akin to abortion in some opinions? Lots of other options provided for, weren't there?

Again, the facts clouded by sensationalism.
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Posted: 08/04/2014 6:18 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



cardcrimson wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't it certain types of birth control?
Yes, you are right, the Hobby Lobby decision itself was much more limited than people on both sides wanted to make it out to be.

I shorthanded it because my point wasn't about the case itself but that many factors -- gender, race, wealth, education, life experiences, etc. -- shape our worldview in ways we don't even realize.  It's the whole "fish don't know they're in water" metaphor.

If that weren't true, there would be no such thing as liberal and conservative judges.  There would simply be smart judges who agreed based on the facts of the case.
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Posted: 08/04/2014 6:59 PM

you know nothing, Jon Snow 


nfm
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Posted: 08/04/2014 9:41 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



ccTop wrote:
I shorthanded it because my point wasn't about the case itself but that many factors -- gender, race, wealth, education, life experiences, etc. -- shape our worldview in ways we don't even realize.  It's the whole "fish don't know they're in water" metaphor.

If that weren't true, there would be no such thing as liberal and conservative judges.  There would simply be smart judges who agreed based on the facts of the case.
I once particpated in a small group that had a one hour audience with Sandra Day O'Conner.  The story of the start of her 'law' career was amazing within the context of her educational background

In listening to her, I came to the conclusion that she didn't look at her experiences as an example of prejudice based on gender, instead that she was a part of the evolution and expansion of individual rights, and that she as a member of the Supreme Court, was testimony to the need to protect the structures that permitted individual achievement.

I hope Judge Sotomayor's comment about wise Latinas is rooted in the same philosophy.  Particularly as she demonstrates what a wise Latina can accomplish within the framework of American institutions; institutions the USSC needs to protect in order to defend individual autonomy.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 08/05/2014 6:08 AM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 


Would love to meet Sandra Day O'Connor. Really enjoyed her life story in the book "Lazy B". Her time on the family ranch prior to arriving at Stanford was fascinating.
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Posted: 08/05/2014 7:10 AM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



ccTop wrote:
oline84 wrote:
Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.
There's no way you can claim that the context of this decision and the world view of its judges don't make a difference.

Imagine the defendant didn't want to pay for birth control coverage because sharia law forbid it.  You can damn well be sure the right-wing talk show hosts would have been yelling that he needs to follow the same laws as the rest of America, even if he disagreed with them.  And it's likely at least one justice would have voted the other way.

It's not a question of the ability of the judges be fair.  It's an acknowledgement that your world view is shaped by your experiences.  Gender is a part of that.  Race is too, which is what Sotomayor's "wise Latina" comment was trying to get at.

As a white male I probably would have argued with those assertions until I married someone of a different race and saw the world through her eyes.

I don't question anything you say here.  Indeed I agree with it.  We all carry biases.  Still - political correctness today assures that the only group for whom such comments may be directed are white males.  And perhaps Ginsburg forgot that it was white males that brought Roe.  I guess they were just more evolved.

"I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made today."

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Posted: 08/05/2014 7:15 AM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



cardcrimson wrote:
ccTop wrote:
oline84 wrote:
Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.
There's no way you can claim that the context of this decision and the world view of its judges don't make a difference.

If the defendant were an Arab-American who wanted to deny birth control coverage because of his belief in sharia law, you can damn well be sure the case would have been decided the other way and the right-wing talk show hosts would be cheering it.

It's not a question of the ability of the judges be fair.  It's an acknowledgement that your world view is shaped by your experiences.  Gender is a part of that.  Race is too, which is what Sotomayor's "wise Latina" comment was trying to get at.

As a white male I probably would have argued with those assertions until I married someone of a different race and saw the world through her eyes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't it certain types of birth control? Like the ones that prevent a fertilized egg from implanting? Akin to abortion in some opinions? Lots of other options provided for, weren't there?

Again, the facts clouded by sensationalism.

Yes.  In particular there were four meds/devices in question.  Hobby Lobby was not a particlularly suprising nor a particularly broad opinion.  The part of the decision that could arguably be called a stretch was applaying the Act to corporations (closely held).  But there is a lot of law in a lot of contexts that treat acorporation as a "person."

"I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made today."

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Posted: 08/05/2014 8:20 AM

I Didn't Read It As Sexist 


at all.  She was very specific in who she was condescending too.  

And i tested your hypothesis out at home last night on my feminist.  And I am still alive and relatively unharmed.wink  And if you were hoping for film of the encounter, I am sorry to disappoint.

our state of grace is gone.

Last edited 08/05/2014 8:20 AM by roscoemaynard

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Posted: 08/05/2014 9:15 AM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 


That's not really the correct analogy, is it?  Tell her she has a blind spot on men's rights.  I'm not sure what those are ...  tongue
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Posted: 08/05/2014 10:19 AM

Re: you know nothing, Jon Snow 


Yeah well, you know how she ended up.  But nice silly comment anyway.

"I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made today."

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Posted: 08/05/2014 3:34 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 





---------------------------------------------
--- ccTop wrote:


oline84 wrote:
Saying men can't be fair because their men is about as sexist as it gets.
There's no way you can claim that the context of this decision and the world view of its judges don't make a difference.

Imagine the defendant didn't want to pay for birth control coverage because sharia law forbid it.  You can damn well be sure the right-wing talk show hosts would have been yelling that he needs to follow the same laws as the rest of America, even if he disagreed with them.  And it's likely at least one justice would have voted the other way.

It's not a question of the ability of the judges be fair.  It's an acknowledgement that your world view is shaped by your experiences.  Gender is a part of that.  Race is too, which is what Sotomayor's "wise Latina" comment was trying to get at.

As a white male I probably would have argued with those assertions until I married someone of a different race and saw the world through her eyes.

---------------------------------------------
Very well stated. Unfortunately too many people will not openly engage in any discussion which will help them better appreciate other peoples' world view. They will not allow anything to challenge their beliefs or biases UNLESS it becomes something personal such as Rob Portman's sudden reversal of opinion on same-sex marriage because his son revealed he was gay.
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Posted: 08/05/2014 3:36 PM

Re: I guess its fine to make sexist remarks... 



lex24 wrote:
I don't question anything you say here.  Indeed I agree with it.  We all carry biases.  Still - political correctness today assures that the only group for whom such comments may be directed are white males.  And perhaps Ginsburg forgot that it was white males that brought Roe.  I guess they were just more evolved.
No, the lawyers in the case were transgender.  They weren't really male.....genetically.  biggrin
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 08/05/2014 3:38 PM

Re: I Didn't Read It As Sexist 



roscoemaynard wrote: at all.  She was very specific in who she was condescending too.  

And i tested your hypothesis out at home last night on my feminist.  And I am still alive and relatively unharmed.wink  And if you were hoping for film of the encounter, I am sorry to disappoint.
Your wounds are easily hidden.  The board doesn't have a 'falsetto soprano' font.  biggrin
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 08/06/2014 11:40 AM

Re: you know nothing, Jon Snow 


Well, Jon Snow will get his, but not at the hand of a woman.

Here's a less silly link.

Our society may be edging toward a true post-racist state.  But it is definitely not post-sexist.  I see more sexism among people in their teens and 20s, then I saw when I was the same age.
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