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Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things

Posted: 06/07/2014 1:48 PM

Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/r...may-not-be-sane


Unless one admits Obama is running the Alinsky playbook which so many on this board love to criticize as ridiculous, this may be the only other possible answer to the erratic behavior patterns....................

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

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Posted: 06/07/2014 2:33 PM

Or not. . . 


Nm

My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice."  For years I was smart.  I recommend nice.  You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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Posted: 06/07/2014 4:13 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 



Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
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Posted: 06/07/2014 5:02 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 



RMOTKING wrote:
Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
Never miss an opportunity to promote oneself in the media. I'll top your questioning action with outlandish speculation. It gets so tiring! rolleyes
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Posted: 06/07/2014 5:31 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 



tmcgrath wrote:
RMOTKING wrote:
Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
Never miss an opportunity to promote oneself in the media. I'll top your questioning action with outlandish speculation. It gets so tiring! rolleyes
If you'd like to put your comments in more simple English -- great.   I'd be happy to respond.   Otherwise, I have no idea what you're trying to say........

It sounds like you're knocking me.   Though I'm not sure what for?

I didn't knock Rocky.    I knocked the psychologist analyzing the President of the United States on national television.    And I would've done the same thing had she appeared on MSNBC or CNN or any other network.  

As I said, I'm not sure what your complaint is?


Last edited 06/07/2014 5:45 PM by RMOTKING

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Posted: 06/07/2014 5:48 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 





---------------------------------------------
--- tmcgrath wrote:


RMOTKING wrote:
Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
Never miss an opportunity to promote oneself in the media. I'll top your questioning action with outlandish speculation. It gets so tiring! rolleyes

---------------------------------------------

I get it but did she need to pick on a crazy Kenyan Muslim to make a name for herself?
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Posted: 06/07/2014 5:50 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 


That explains why the pretty ones are prohibited from appearing on MSNBC...tongue
RMOTKING wrote:   Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
"Après moi le déluge" Louis XV
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Posted: 06/07/2014 6:03 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 



standfan wrote:

I get it but did she need to pick on a crazy Kenyan Muslim to make a name for herself?
And perhaps her media strategy was wrong.  Would it work if she would have published a selfie on twitter with a plaintive expression on her face while wearing a designer dress, holding a sign that said, "# Bring back my career!"

Rumor has it that was the launch of the 2016 Obama Senate campaign?  Surely this shrink can make a buck or two in the narcissistic and superficial country we have created...where no one has values as they may limit ones ability to capitalize on the moment.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 06/07/2014 8:57 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 



RMOTKING wrote:
tmcgrath wrote:
RMOTKING wrote:
Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
Never miss an opportunity to promote oneself in the media. I'll top your questioning action with outlandish speculation. It gets so tiring! rolleyes
If you'd like to put your comments in more simple English -- great.   I'd be happy to respond.   Otherwise, I have no idea what you're trying to say........

It sounds like you're knocking me.   Though I'm not sure what for?

I didn't knock Rocky.    I knocked the psychologist analyzing the President of the United States on national television.    And I would've done the same thing had she appeared on MSNBC or CNN or any other network.  

As I said, I'm not sure what your complaint is?


I was agreeing with you Michael. I admit on reread that my comment was poorly written. I'm just sick and tired of these self promoting talking heads making outlandish statements in the hopes of keeping themselves in the spotlight.
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Posted: 06/07/2014 10:20 PM

Re: Finally, Someone Who May Be On Top of Things 


Thanks, TMac.....

I know I can be a little slow on the uptake sometimes...  so I thought it was me....

I appreciate the response....   TV shrinks just drive me crazy....    all of them!

tmcgrath wrote:
RMOTKING wrote:
tmcgrath wrote:
RMOTKING wrote:
Great.....    a TV psychologist out to try and make a name for herself......

Maybe she'll get her own show.....  and since she's pretty,  maybe it will be on Fox...
Never miss an opportunity to promote oneself in the media. I'll top your questioning action with outlandish speculation. It gets so tiring! rolleyes
If you'd like to put your comments in more simple English -- great.   I'd be happy to respond.   Otherwise, I have no idea what you're trying to say........

It sounds like you're knocking me.   Though I'm not sure what for?

I didn't knock Rocky.    I knocked the psychologist analyzing the President of the United States on national television.    And I would've done the same thing had she appeared on MSNBC or CNN or any other network.  

As I said, I'm not sure what your complaint is?


I was agreeing with you Michael. I admit on reread that my comment was poorly written. I'm just sick and tired of these self promoting talking heads making outlandish statements in the hopes of keeping themselves in the spotlight.
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Posted: 06/08/2014 1:29 AM

I Posted this Tongue in Cheek 


Obama may be convoluted, tone deaf, incompetent, unworthy of the Presidency and out of touch with traditional American values and mores or any of a dozen other similar observations, but he is NOT insane.
He is a dedicated acolyte of Saul Alinsky whether people on this board want to acknowledge it or not.  He is running the playbook at full bore all the while ignoring his Constitutional duties and violating laws and pushing his authority to it`s limits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

Wikipedia is good enough for a quick primer.  At this point in time, whether he has the power or not he is throwing so much at the "opposition" they cannot react coherently.  Whether it is allowing immigrants to cross the border freely, releasing Taliban and closing Gitmo de facto by  traitorous actions, reducing or eliminating deportations, releasing criminals here illegally from jails, unilaterally setting EPA standards to kill the coal industry and ostensibly fight climate change at the expense of the American economy, promote food stamps and permanent  disability payments in lieu of real jobs, selective enforcement of existing laws in violation of his Constitutional duties et. al. he is pushing us to limits in ways advocated by Alinsky to achieve his goals, knowing there is no stomach to use the remedy of impeachment and no possibility of conviction if impeached.

The VA, foreign policy gaffes and ineffectual leadership conversations detract from the focus on the things he is doing to remake this country into one of his own design.  I fear what he has already done and will do over the next 2 years and 7 months will create so much havoc and disruption that even a Republican presidency in 2017 could never undo the damage.  his administrative incompetence is unfortunately matched by his radical zeal.

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

Last edited 06/08/2014 7:58 AM by Rocky17

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Posted: 06/08/2014 5:40 PM

Can we put this Alinsky thing to rest? 


Rocky, the idea that Obama is an acolyte of Alinsky is utter nonsense. 

Nobody who took the time to understand Alinsky would agree with you. The conservative talk show hosts and politicians who try to tie Obama to Alinsky have no idea what they're talking about.

Here's the thing about Alinsky, Rocky: his mission was to empower local communities. He wanted to give the power to the regular people, especially to the have-nots, rather than the politicians and big institutions. He spent his life trying to pry power loose from the political and corporate machinery and to give the power to the people who had no voice in the political and corporate institutions. Alinsky believed in decentralized power. He argued that the power should rest not with a central government, but with the local community.

It makes no sense to argue that Obama is pushing his executive authority to its limits so that he can remake the country into one of his own design, and to simultaneously argue that Obama is an follower of Alinsky. Those are completely opposite concepts. They are irreconcilable. Alinsky spent his life trying to prevent politicians from imposing their will on the people. Alinsky wanted power to devolve to the have-nots, not to be centralized in the political elite.

Alinsky wrote about how to organize communities to take power from the political and corporate power structure. He advocated tactics to put pressure on the political and corporate elites, to force the power brokers to pay attention to local concerns, to make them accountable to the people. He did not advocate seizing political power, centralizing it, and then imposing top-down programs on the people by executive fiat. That is the opposite of what Alinsky advocated.  

If Alinsky were alive, he would be protesting against Obama for numerous reasons -- NSA surveillance, drone strikes, corporate bail-outs, deportation of two million people, etc.  Obama is the sort of establishment figure who Alinsky used to target. Obama started as a community organizer, but he left that behind and instead gained power, privilege, connections, and access to wealth. He became the establishment. Alinsky tried to take power away from people like that. If Obama really were trying to assume near-dictatorial powers as you say, Alinsky would be the first to protest it. 

Alinsky wanted to allow communities, especially the have-nots, to gain the power to implement their own agendas. He disdained rigid ideology and dogmatism and strongly criticized those who let ideology get in the way of getting things done. He advocated compromise. By no means did Alinsky advocate using political power to re-make the country to conform to the ideologically-driven dictates of a political elite.

Alinsky's tactics of organizing can be used by any disempowered group that is seeking to gain power. In fact, Alinsky's tactics have been explicitly adopted by some conservative organizations. Some Tea Party organizations have handed out Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" to their members as guidelines for organizing their movement. 

The leading practitioners of Alinsky's tactics today are the Tea Party, the conservative talk shows, the conservative bloggers. They join together around a common symbol and identify an enemy. Then they personalize their target and they polarize it (Alinsky's Rule 13). They keep constant pressure on the target by different means and tactics (Rules 8 and 9). They keep their constituents happy by giving them a steady supply of red meat in the form of feigned outrage (Rule 6). They use ridicule against their opponents (Rule 5). They use the opposition's rule book against it by emphasizing areas in which their opponents have fallen short of their own ideals or promises (Rule 4). And so on.

Rocky, you've been using Alinsky's tactics for the last several years. You personalize your attacks on the opposition, you polarize, you ridicule, you keep constant pressure on your opponent. Face it, Rocky, you are the Alinsky acolyte. biggrin

Last edited 06/08/2014 9:42 PM by terry2

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Posted: 06/08/2014 9:18 PM

Re: Can we put this Alinsky thing to rest? 


Exactly.  I've mentioned before that, as a very young lawyer, I had the "pleasure" of "negotiating" with Alinsky back in 1971 (?) while representing a group of local governments.  Didn't like him much - very abrasive and arrogant, but focused on his goal of getting to yes.  The Gov folks were scared to death of him which didn't make them very good clients.
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Posted: 06/09/2014 6:16 AM

I Wish I Could, T2!!!! 


I obviously did not make myself as clear as I now wish I had, since it is always a humbling experience to be on the other side of a full court T2 retort.  Thanks that I am a dentist/small business guy rather than an attorney opposite you in a litigation or negotiation. I am not saying that Alinsky`s goals are Obama`s.  Obama has own set of desires and goals.  I am saying that he uses Alinsky`s tactics.  I am not even saying they are exclusive to Obama.  Other politicians of every conceivable political group along with certain businesses use the same techniques and strategies.  It is just that the Obama people are so good at it and are achieving goals that I do not agree with, some of them with the law on their side, some that do not. 

Barack Obama has more chutzpah than I have ever seen from any politician.  He knows he is bulletproof from retribution given the unique circumstances of his election and his place in American political history. He has a set of beliefs almost 180 degrees from my own and he will stop at almost nothing to impose them into the American fabric.  Almost everything he has meddled with has gone south.  He is not a proficient administrator since he places unqualified people into positions of authority based on their ideology, not their administrative abilities and when things happen as they have so many times such as the VA or with everything Susan Rice or Eric Holder touches, he just defines the opposition using Alinsky`s tactics and with the help of a 4th estate that no longer has much relevance except for Fox and a few others, he just moves on and leaves the problems in his wake for a future leader to worry about or correct once the hoopla has blown over.  Really, Terry, what American President besides Obama could ever get away with using the IRS to alter an election against political opponents or redacting communications under subpoena  to the point of uselessness or not even complying with judicial requests for information regardless of the fact that Congress has a Constitutional duty to keep tabs on the Executive Branch of government?

I am sorry that I was not more succinct but I stand by the intent of my statement, that Obama is adept at using the rules Alinsky created to an extent heretofore unseen at the national political level and he is using them with the help of a compliant Press and Harry Reid to remake the US into a place that only he envisions in his mind and definitely not to my approval.  And what is with his unilateral decision to open the borders and not return illegals to their country of origin?

If he would just actually do something that makes sense like reducing the corporate tax rate and approving the Keystone pipeline, he would help create millions of good paying jobs that would benefit the entire economy and also the people he purports to want to help the most instead of another divisive political tactic designed to encourage voter turnout that will actually help very few, hurt businesses and reduce a half million jobs like the minimum wage effort.  I won`t even touch the EPA or the taxes increases of January 1, 2014 but my problem with his administration is apparent enough.

 Educate and inform the whole mass of the people.   They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

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Posted: 06/09/2014 10:19 AM

Re: Can we put this Alinsky thing to rest? 


When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
---Hunter S. Thompson

 

I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

---Samuel Goldwyn

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Posted: 06/09/2014 11:13 AM

Well, if Glen Beck has flow-charted it 


...then the Conspiracy must be real.    I simply must check up on how the sales are going for  the Beck-approved Fortress Idaho survivalist community.

"Those are my principles and if you don't like them...well, I have others"   Groucho Marx
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Posted: 06/09/2014 11:22 AM

The real purpose of tying Obama to Alinsky 


Rocky, you agree that Obama is not pursuing Alinsky's goals; rather, what you're accusing Obama of doing is the opposite of what Alinsky was trying to do. You agree that "politicians of every conceivable political group along with certain businesses" use Alinsky's organizing tactics. So really, Rocky, you're agreeing that Obama is no more a follower of Alinsky than many others.

You say that Obama is particularly adept at using Alinsky's tactics, albeit not in pursuit of Alinsky's goals. That's not really the case. Alinsky's tactics were designed to organize grassroots community groups that did not have political power. Alinsky's tactics are intended to allow those who lack power to put pressure on those who have power. That's not the situation with Obama. Obama is the guy with the power, not the powerless have-not. Obama is governing, not organizing community-based groups. He is trying to exercise the power of his office, not trying to stand up to those who have the power. The Alinsky rules just don't fit Obama very well.

The Alinsky rules are a better fit for the Tea Party, the conservative talk show hosts, etc. They're the ones who lack political power and are trying to organize at the local level to resist the power of their opponent. In the Alinsky rulebook, Obama fits best as the target, not the organizer.

So what's the reason for the ongoing effort by conservatives to tie Obama to Alinsky?

I think what's going on is this. Most people know nothing about Alinsky. But just based on his name, Alinsky seems foreign and Jewish and ethnic. He wrote a book about radicals. He evokes impressions of those leftist intellectual Commies back in the day. He's a convenient boogeyman for conservatives because he seems to represent so many things they fear or dislike. I think some of the conservative opinion shapers of several years ago (Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich, and others) started accusing Obama of being an Alinsky acolyte because they wanted to make Obama seem un-American, non-Christian, ethnic, foreign, radical, socialist. It's the same thing the motivated the allegations that Obama was born in Kenya and the tales about Obama being a secret Muslim. It's more socially acceptable to call Obama an Alinsky acolyte than to say he's a Kenyan Muslim, but the goal is the same: to make it seem that Obama is not a real American, not a real Christian, not a believer in democracy, not someone who's trying to do the best for the American people -- that he's not "one of us."

Calling Obama an Alinsky acolyte started as a way for conservative organizers to rally the conservative troops around a common cause: stopping the un-American, non-Christian, ethnic, foreign, socialist from taking over "our country." That tactic worked pretty well. They persuaded people who don't know any better to keep up the constant "Obama = Alinsky" drumbeat. Please understand that I'm not questioning your motives, Rocky. I'm saying the whole "Obama = Alinsky" tactic was started by people with a particular agenda.

But the "Obama = Alinsky" thing is hogwash. It's hogwash because Obama is not really an Alinsky acolyte, as I mentioned above and in my last post. And it's hogwash because Alinsky was not a foreign, un-American Commie. Alinsky was a native-born American who worked his way through college. He was not a Communist; rather, he rejected Marxism. He did not advocate overthrowing the government or taking power by force; rather, he used non-violent methods. Alinsky was not an ideological extremist driven by doctrinaire beliefs. He once said, "I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated."

Somewhat amusingly, the conservative effort to discredit Obama by tying him to Alinsky could itself be seen as a use of Alinsky's tactics. The conservative organizers picked their target, personalized it, and polarized it (Alinsky's Rule 13). I suspect Alinsky would have seen some humor in that.

Last edited 06/10/2014 9:18 AM by terry2

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Posted: 06/09/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Can we put this Alinsky thing to rest? 



terry2 wrote: Rocky, the idea that Obama is an acolyte of Alinsky is utter nonsense. 

Nobody who took the time to understand Alinsky would agree with you. The conservative talk show hosts and politicians who try to tie Obama to Alinsky have no idea what they're talking about.

Here's the thing about Alinsky, Rocky: his mission was to empower local communities. He wanted to give the power to the regular people, especially to the have-nots, rather than the politicians and big institutions. 
Terry, I think you have overshot the runway.  You seem to be suggesting that 'Alinsky' is a single set of results or policy objectives an not a process for altering political power structures.  I think that is too narrow a construction.

Processes like six sigma or CMMI seem to have applicability to many endeavors; and can be pursued aggressively to achieve a very broad range of objectives.

The few Obama/ Alinsky comparisons I am aware of, including Rocky's, seem to be tactics or process based. I'm not too knowledgable about the Alinsky methodology, specifically how Alinsky extended the art of political hardball, but superficially the comparisons I've seen seem entirely appropriate.
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 06/09/2014 11:36 AM

Re: The real purpose of tying Obama to Alinsky 



terry2 wrote: .....You say that Obama is particularly adept at using Alinsky's tactics, albeit not in pursuit of Alinsky's goals. That's not really the case. Alinsky's tactics were designed to organize grassroots community groups that did not have political power. Alinsky's tactics are intended to allow those who lack power to put pressure on those who have power. That's not the situation with Obama. Obama is the guy with the power, not the powerless have-not. Obama is governing, not organizing community-based groups. He is trying to exercise the power of his office, not trying to stand up to those who have the power. Come on, Rocky. The Alinsky construct just doesn't fit Obama.  How would you analyze the media strategy and interviews candidate Obama did in the 2012 election cycle.  Pimp with a Limp is a megaphone to the politically connected?  The conference calls with the black churches?  The war on women and the Life of Julia?  The investment in social media channels?  The ownership of the low information voter?

Seems much as you describe Alinsky, no?
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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Posted: 06/09/2014 11:37 AM

Re: Well, if Glen Beck has flow-charted it 



TLV01 wrote: ...then the Conspiracy must be real.    I simply must check up on how the sales are going for  the Beck-approved Fortress Idaho survivalist community.
TLV, I think you can get hourly updates on Air America?
Here's a toast with one last pour, may it last forever plus a minute more;
May fortune sing you her sweet song; to live and love way past long
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