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RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78

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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:18 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
JesseBolt wrote: Even with no TOB rebate it makes me snicker to think somebody would think DY would let 247 grand stand in the way of the right coach at the right time.
Assuming she's out there & willing to take it?

The posters make a good point about how tough the ACC is for WBB. We always heard how tough the men's job @ NCSU was due to Duke & UNC. But aside from those 2, who was really all that tough BB wise year in & out in the ACC? (prior to Louisville & Syracuse joining).

The next WBB coach looks like they'll have to deal with the 2 blues up the road in addition to a # of strong other ACC programs.
This is what people fail to realize about WBB.  The ACC is a far tougher conference for WBB than for MBB.  We could EASILY have 4 top ten teams next year and 8-9 ranked teams--just unheard of.  Point being, you can't half-@&& your program in this league. Big money has to be spent on a Coach and facilities if you are going to compete at all.  I'm sure DY is aware of this and will commit to the program.
I agree & the best coaches probably realize what a struggle that job will be.

Like wolfer & FV pointed out our budget issues for FB, BB or basketball hire, I'm not sure how much they have to invest in WBB?
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:19 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
JesseBolt wrote: Even with no TOB rebate it makes me snicker to think somebody would think DY would let 247 grand stand in the way of the right coach at the right time.
Assuming she's out there & willing to take it?

The posters make a good point about how tough the ACC is for WBB. We always heard how tough the men's job @ NCSU was due to Duke & UNC. But aside from those 2, who was really all that tough BB wise year in & out in the ACC? (prior to Louisville & Syracuse joining).

The next WBB coach looks like they'll have to deal with the 2 blues up the road in addition to a # of strong other ACC programs.
This is what people fail to realize about WBB.  The ACC is a far tougher conference for WBB than for MBB.  We could EASILY have 4 top ten teams next year and 8-9 ranked teams--just unheard of.  Point being, you can't half-@&& your program in this league. Big money has to be spent on a Coach and facilities if you are going to compete at all.  I'm sure DY is aware of this and will commit to the program.
DY will commit to the program and find the money, but will the NC State fan base commit and show up other than Hopes4Hope and maybe the unc-ch game?

Based on attendance at other non-revenue sports, not until they win other than the 2 games noted.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:22 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote: DY will commit to the program and find the money, but will the NC State fan base commit and show up other than Hopes4Hope and maybe the unc-ch game?

Based on attendance at other non-revenue sports, not until they win other than the 2 games noted.
good question here, when men's BB was down, that was the window. I'm not sure enough State fans will care about WBB especially that the men look in such good shape now.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:24 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



PackMentality87 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
JesseBolt wrote: Even with no TOB rebate it makes me snicker to think somebody would think DY would let 247 grand stand in the way of the right coach at the right time.
Assuming she's out there & willing to take it?

The posters make a good point about how tough the ACC is for WBB. We always heard how tough the men's job @ NCSU was due to Duke & UNC. But aside from those 2, who was really all that tough BB wise year in & out in the ACC? (prior to Louisville & Syracuse joining).

The next WBB coach looks like they'll have to deal with the 2 blues up the road in addition to a # of strong other ACC programs.
This is what people fail to realize about WBB.  The ACC is a far tougher conference for WBB than for MBB.  We could EASILY have 4 top ten teams next year and 8-9 ranked teams--just unheard of.  Point being, you can't half-@&& your program in this league. Big money has to be spent on a Coach and facilities if you are going to compete at all.  I'm sure DY is aware of this and will commit to the program.


So what?  The ACC was a bear in the 80's when V was coaching the men.  That's no excuse.
Not sure what your point is, but my point was that DY can't afford not to get rid of Kellie after this year--- not if she wants State to be able to compete in this conference.  Reynolds has got to be renovated and big money allocated for a new coach, and it needs to be done now.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:30 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote: Not sure what your point is, but my point was that DY can't afford not to get rid of Kellie after this year--- not if she wants State to be able to compete in this conference.  Reynolds has got to be renovated and big money allocated for a new coach, and it needs to be done now.
But how will 1 year & $247K make that much of a difference? It's a tough job in the 2013/2014 season & the 2014/2015 season.

Honestly from what I've read here, the next coach would do well to get State to finish in the 6th to 8th place range of the ACC.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:37 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



BlackRazor wrote:


Like wolfer & FV pointed out our budget issues for FB, BB or basketball hire, I'm not sure how much they have to invest in WBB?
8 home football games in 2013
premium price for unc-ch and East Carolina game.
last time unc-ch was in Raleigh ticket was $65 face value, I am guessing $70 at least this year.
probably around $40 for Louisiana Tech, Central Michigan and Richmond. OOC were $39 in 2012
ACC games (Syracuse, Maryland) probably $60 a game, was $57 in 2012
Clemson game I think will be a premium ticket like FSU was in 2012, $65 in 2012, my guess is $70 for 2013

50,000 people not including student
less than 65 cents a game price increase buys out Harper
3 games @ $40
2 games @ $60
2 game @ $70
East Carolina probably will be same as ACC $60

$440 a ticket for 8 games $55 per game average
was $314 for 7 games in 2012 $44.86 per game average with $20 discount for season tickets
my guess is $400 for season tickets

football  and MBB will pay for the rest of the programs, just like every other program in the country.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


Last edited 1/16/2013 10:44 AM by wolfer79

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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:38 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote: Not sure what your point is, but my point was that DY can't afford not to get rid of Kellie after this year--- not if she wants State to be able to compete in this conference.  Reynolds has got to be renovated and big money allocated for a new coach, and it needs to be done now.
But how will 1 year & $247K make that much of a difference? It's a tough job in the 2013/2014 season & the 2014/2015 season.

Honestly from what I've read here, the next coach would do well to get State to finish in the 6th to 8th place range of the ACC.
It does for fans like me that go to almost every game. We are tired of losing and want to get it fixed asap.

Win and more fans come. They did when we won big under Yow. Reynolds sold out against #1 UVA way back in the day. I was there and it was awesome!!! Except we lost lol.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:43 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:


Like wolfer & FV pointed out our budget issues for FB, BB or basketball hire, I'm not sure how much they have to invest in WBB?
8 home football games in 2013
premium price for unc-ch and East Carolina game.
last time unc-ch was in Raleigh ticket was $65 face value, I am guessing $70 at least this year.
probably around $40 for Louisiana Tech, Central Michigan and Richmond. OOC were $39 in 2012
ACC games (Syracuse, Maryland) probably $60 a game, was $57 in 2012
Clemson game I think will be a premium ticket like FSU was in 2012, $65 in 2012, my guess is $70 for 2013

50,000 people not including student
less than 65 cents a game price increase buys out Harper
3 games @ $40
2 games @ $60
2 game @ $70
East Carolina probably will be same as ACC $60

$440 a ticket for 8 games $55 per game average
was $314 for 7 games in 2012 $44.86 per game average with $20 discount for season tickets
my guess is $400 for season tickets






football  and MBB will pay for the rest of the programs, just like every other program in the country.
These prices are nuts. I already dropped two paid for LTRS. I want to keep my last two in the worst way but the price may make me drop them too. Plus the WPC dues went up.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:46 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



JesseBolt wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
8 home football games in 2013
premium price for unc-ch and East Carolina game.
last time unc-ch was in Raleigh ticket was $65 face value, I am guessing $70 at least this year.
probably around $40 for Louisiana Tech, Central Michigan and Richmond. OOC were $39 in 2012
ACC games (Syracuse, Maryland) probably $60 a game, was $57 in 2012
Clemson game I think will be a premium ticket like FSU was in 2012, $65 in 2012, my guess is $70 for 2013

50,000 people not including student
less than 65 cents a game price increase buys out Harper
3 games @ $40
2 games @ $60
2 game @ $70
East Carolina probably will be same as ACC $60

$440 a ticket for 8 games $55 per game average
was $314 for 7 games in 2012 $44.86 per game average with $20 discount for season tickets
my guess is $400 for season tickets

These prices are nuts. I already dropped two paid for LTRS. I want to keep my last two in the worst way but the price may make me drop them too. Plus the WPC dues went up.
those are my guesses and reasons why. I have been wrong before and may be wrong again.

I hope you are right, we will see.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/16/2013 10:50 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote:
JesseBolt wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
8 home football games in 2013
premium price for unc-ch and East Carolina game.
last time unc-ch was in Raleigh ticket was $65 face value, I am guessing $70 at least this year.
probably around $40 for Louisiana Tech, Central Michigan and Richmond. OOC were $39 in 2012
ACC games (Syracuse, Maryland) probably $60 a game, was $57 in 2012
Clemson game I think will be a premium ticket like FSU was in 2012, $65 in 2012, my guess is $70 for 2013

50,000 people not including student
less than 65 cents a game price increase buys out Harper
3 games @ $40
2 games @ $60
2 game @ $70
East Carolina probably will be same as ACC $60

$440 a ticket for 8 games $55 per game average
was $314 for 7 games in 2012 $44.86 per game average with $20 discount for season tickets
my guess is $400 for season tickets

These prices are nuts. I already dropped two paid for LTRS. I want to keep my last two in the worst way but the price may make me drop them too. Plus the WPC dues went up.
those are my guesses and reasons why. I have been wrong before and may be wrong again.

I hope you are right, we will see.
No I think you misunderstood me. Your guesses are good. I just hate the prices keep going up so much. That is a lot of money for two tickets.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 11:05 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



JesseBolt wrote:
No I think you misunderstood me. Your guesses are good. I just hate the prices keep going up so much. That is a lot of money for two tickets.
we're cool

meanwhile back to NC State WBB and game with Maryland

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/16/2013 11:38 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote: Not sure what your point is, but my point was that DY can't afford not to get rid of Kellie after this year--- not if she wants State to be able to compete in this conference.  Reynolds has got to be renovated and big money allocated for a new coach, and it needs to be done now.
But how will 1 year & $247K make that much of a difference? It's a tough job in the 2013/2014 season & the 2014/2015 season.

Honestly from what I've read here, the next coach would do well to get State to finish in the 6th to 8th place range of the ACC.
The quick answer is that it would be one more year of terrible recruiting and one more year of fans and potential prospects of watching them get their butts kicked.  It may only be one more year to the coach, but it is a four year class that she will be bringing in.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 11:54 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


****...

@DangeRussWilson: My sister @annaTION5 just got offered a full scholarship to play Basketball @UWMadison

#OnWisconsin

Another Wilson on the way!?
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:01 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


^TOB strikes again?  j/k
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:07 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



JesseBolt wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote: Not sure what your point is, but my point was that DY can't afford not to get rid of Kellie after this year--- not if she wants State to be able to compete in this conference.  Reynolds has got to be renovated and big money allocated for a new coach, and it needs to be done now.
But how will 1 year & $247K make that much of a difference? It's a tough job in the 2013/2014 season & the 2014/2015 season.

Honestly from what I've read here, the next coach would do well to get State to finish in the 6th to 8th place range of the ACC.
It does for fans like me that go to almost every game. We are tired of losing and want to get it fixed asap.

Win and more fans come. They did when we won big under Yow. Reynolds sold out against #1 UVA way back in the day. I was there and it was awesome!!! Except we lost lol.
yeah I can imagine but our hands were financially tied @ times with both MBB & FB - 2 sports that actually make $ & our fans had to learn to be patient.

DY made the right decision in FB when we were losing season tickets holders/$ & now we see what a hot ticket MBB is again.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:24 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


I sense some rhetorical white flag waving in these discussions. N C State WBB has been a member of the ACC since the sport was added over 30 years ago, and for a long time was among the conference leaders. Now the conference is expanding and the program is falling. Is it an acceptable position for N C State athletics as a whole, to have this program become a perpetual laggard? Why do schools like Duke, UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Miami, etc. find the WBB program worthy enough to invest in a higher level of competitiveness if it doesn't bring value to the overall athletic mission? Right now we are holding a low poker hand in a high stakes game. We need to either play aggressively or fold. If we fold to save money, it will be a point of reference regarding N C State's reluctance to compete and be counter to what DY stated when she took over the athletic department. If we continue to fund the program at the current rate, it is unlikely that we would ever see anything better than a 10th place finish in conference standings. Harper's failure to move the program forward has cost us additional funds for the future if our goal is to achieve what was intended when she was hired. The reason is now the program has slipped further down the ladder of the ACC and is projecting extreme weakness two years out. Any up-and-comer who can come in and fix that would be a strong candidate for coach of the year. We need someone who is capable now, not someone who has the potential to be capable someday.

Last edited 1/16/2013 12:28 PM by seniorwolf60

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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:32 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



seniorwolf60 wrote: I sense some rhetorical white flag waving in these discussions. N C State WBB has been a member of the ACC since the sport was added over 30 years ago, and for a long time was among the conference leaders. Now the conference is expanding and the program is falling. Is it an acceptable position for N C State athletics as a whole, to have this program become a perpetual laggard? Why do schools like Duke, UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Miami, etc. find the WBB program worthy enough to invest in a higher level of competitiveness if it doesn't bring value to the overall athletic mission? Right now we are holding a low poker hand in a high stakes game. We need to either play aggressively or fold. If we fold to save money, it will be a point of reference regarding N C State's reluctance to compete and be counter to what DY stated when she took over the athletic department. If we continue to fund the program at the current rate, it is unlikely that we would ever see anything better than a 10th place finish in conference standings. Harper's failure to move the program forward has cost us additional funds for the future if our goal is to achieve what was intended when she was hired. The reason is now the program has slipped further down the ladder of the ACC and is projecting extreme weakness two years out. Any up-and-comer who can come in and fix that would be a strong candidate for coach of the year. We need someone who is capable now, not someone who has the potential to be capable someday.
Do they have more $?

I think most want WBB @ NCSU to improve but what's 1 more year & is it worth a $247K hit to the budget? We had to wait 20 in MBB, I know WBB @ NCSU hasn't been down that long.

From these posts, the best reason seems to be because they want it 1 year sooner.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:37 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


Folks, we are in a lot of debt here. Not sure people realize that. Also, the Reynolds renovation is going to cost a ton.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:42 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



abcfan2005 wrote: Folks, we are in a lot of debt here. Not sure people realize that. Also, the Reynolds renovation is going to cost a ton.
or seem to care - even if DY gets the female version of John Wooden, I doubt you'll see a huge increase in attendance.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 1:09 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


How much debt are we in? We saved on TOB's buyout. Doesn't Fowler come off the books this year? What about Sid? How much do we still owe him?

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Posted: 1/16/2013 1:37 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


If we are in too much debt to make the WBB program competitive in the ACC, then we need to own up to it. If that's the case, any extra money spent on trying to have a half way program instead of a bottom dweller would be a waste, in my opinion. Keep Harper until she decides on her own to go somewhere else, then bring in some other brave young soul who wants to try their hand at competing in a difficult conference. I want our men's program to hold its current standing and challenge for the top again. If we can't do both, so be it.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 1:42 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



rexpack71 wrote: How much debt are we in? We saved on TOB's buyout. Doesn't Fowler come off the books this year? What about Sid? How much do we still owe him?

Plus all the WBB teams that pay more or less than us for coaching know going in they are never going to make money.

Not everything is about the money.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 1:51 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


Kay Yow would be pleased to know the WBB thread at Pack Pride has almost reached 30 pages and that so many people who never had much interest in supporting her team now are making judgement calls about the future of the program.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:05 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



LETTERL wrote: Kay Yow would be pleased to know the WBB thread at Pack Pride has almost reached 30 pages and that so many people who never had much interest in supporting her team now are making judgement calls about the future of the program.

You mean the same way FB and MBB has been parlayed on messageboards since the dawn of the internet?

Yea I think she would like all the interest.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:20 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



JesseBolt wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: How much debt are we in? We saved on TOB's buyout. Doesn't Fowler come off the books this year? What about Sid? How much do we still owe him?

Plus all the WBB teams that pay more or less than us for coaching know going in they are never going to make money.

Not everything is about the money.
if the AD's budget is tight still paying for people not working here & hasn't been real successful as a whole for the past 20 years, it kind of is.

Debbie Yow: Cleaning up Lee's mess, 1 day @ a time!

Last edited 1/16/2013 2:22 PM by BlackRazor

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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:20 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



seniorwolf60 wrote: If we are in too much debt to make the WBB program competitive in the ACC, then we need to own up to it. If that's the case, any extra money spent on trying to have a half way program instead of a bottom dweller would be a waste, in my opinion. Keep Harper until she decides on her own to go somewhere else, then bring in some other brave young soul who wants to try their hand at competing in a difficult conference. I want our men's program to hold its current standing and challenge for the top again. If we can't do both, so be it.
+1
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:23 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



BlackRazor wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Folks, we are in a lot of debt here. Not sure people realize that. Also, the Reynolds renovation is going to cost a ton.
or seem to care - even if DY gets the female version of John Wooden, I doubt you'll see a huge increase in attendance.

I believe when I watched the hall of fame induction DY said that would be completed as donations came in. That shouldn't be a part of our debt.

"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift and that's why they call it 'the present', so enjoy it."--Alice Morse Earle via Mike Ditka

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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:43 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



BlackRazor wrote:
JesseBolt wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: How much debt are we in? We saved on TOB's buyout. Doesn't Fowler come off the books this year? What about Sid? How much do we still owe him?

Plus all the WBB teams that pay more or less than us for coaching know going in they are never going to make money.

Not everything is about the money.
if the AD's budget is tight still paying for people not working here & hasn't been real successful as a whole for the past 20 years, it kind of is.

Debbie Yow: Cleaning up Lee's mess, 1 day @ a time!
Most College sports do not make money, we all know that. But we pay them.

Regardless of the way either of us feels, I trust DY will make the right decison.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 2:53 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



JesseBolt wrote: Most College sports do not make money, we all know that. But we pay them.

Regardless of the way either of us feels, I trust DY will make the right decison.
I agree & I'm not saying I hope we don't improve, just that 1 year later won't be as big a deal as some think it is. The next coach has a rebuilding job either way.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 3:01 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



BlackRazor wrote:
JesseBolt wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: How much debt are we in? We saved on TOB's buyout. Doesn't Fowler come off the books this year? What about Sid? How much do we still owe him?

Plus all the WBB teams that pay more or less than us for coaching know going in they are never going to make money.

Not everything is about the money.
if the AD's budget is tight still paying for people not working here & hasn't been real successful as a whole for the past 20 years, it kind of is.

Debbie Yow: Cleaning up Lee's mess, 1 day @ a time!
If the budget is already that tight, then someone needs to start checking the books.  You don't want to end up like MD.  At ECU we were paying 3 football coaches, 2 baseball coaches and 2 basketball coaches all at the same time and still managed to operate just fine.  You guys probably bring in twice the money for athletics--surely you can afford a 247K payoff to one coach.  Personally I feel certain DY will can Kellie in about 2 months and hire a bigger name at a higher salary shortly thereafter.  Remember, she hired and paid Brenda Frese a ton at MD.
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