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RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV

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Posted: 1/15/2013 8:58 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



wolfer79 wrote: Technician

www.technicianonline.com/sport...19bb30f31a.html

Despite the disappointment, there have been several positives for State this season. These bright spots have served as the silver lining around the cloud, giving the team a measure of hope as they move forward.

One of these bright spots has been junior forward Kody Burke.
I agree with Burke being a bright spot. I'm glad she is finally getting some attention. She's a great kid and student, like Marissa. I hope Burke makes third-team All ACC.  

And from the Alumni Association's Red & White for Life Blog: Today in NC State History: Kay Yow gets 500th victory


But for Kay Yow, who was in her 21st season at the helm in Raleigh, that year provided a milestone. It was on this day in 1996 when Yow got her 500th career victory, as the Wolfpack defeated Georgia Tech, 68-63.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 9:06 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 9:15 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 


the fact that 2,300 people plus are still showing up at games for a product this abysmal shows you the potential.  If we had a womens' team as good as the mens', we'd easily average 4000+.  I've attended in the past, but I'm not going to take the time to support a program that not only isn't winning, but is embarrassing the institution.
loneycafe wrote: I'm procrastinating on some work, so here you go.

If you take away the Hoops 4 Hope game (attendance of the box score was listed at 8,560, thanks to Scotty McCreery), then you're at an average attendance of 2,000. 

And I put James Madison's figure in my original for WBB. Including Hoops 4 Hope, average is 2,365. 
wolfer79 wrote:
loneycafe wrote: According to last season's data, WBB outdraws gymnastics on average, but it's close:
WBB 2011-12 season: ~2,306 (from NCAA)
Gymnastics: 2012 season: ~2,059 (from Gym Info; seven home meets last season)

If you take away the Hoops for Hope game, the edge might go to gymnastics. But I also think if WBB performed better, it's attendance would jump pretty remarkably. Perhaps that's wishful thinking. 
ibmotu wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
ibmotu wrote: IWBB is the third most attended sport at a university and is on TV more than any other sport besides MBB and Football. 
I have heard at NC State that gymnastics has higher attendance than any sport other than football and men's basketball.
That would be unusual if true, but aren't there only 3 or 4 home meets?  Kind of different in that regard.
thank you
I just did not care enough to look it up
It would be interesting to subtract Hoops4Hope and see what average attendance is then, but it is a game so it counts.


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 1/15/2013 9:31 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


See the womens hoops recruiting thread for 15 pages + of the complete train wreck that is our recruiting...In a nutshell--we are 11th or 12th in the league, have been for years, and will be next year also.
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 1/15/2013 9:40 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 


I wonder how many of the 2,300 are SWPC members getting loyalty points?

89Gradv2 wrote: the fact that 2,300 people plus are still showing up at games for a product this abysmal shows you the potential.  If we had a womens' team as good as the mens', we'd easily average 4000+.  I've attended in the past, but I'm not going to take the time to support a program that not only isn't winning, but is embarrassing the institution.


FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:01 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote: I wonder how many of the 2,300 are SWPC members getting loyalty points?

89Gradv2 wrote: the fact that 2,300 people plus are still showing up at games for a product this abysmal shows you the potential.  If we had a womens' team as good as the mens', we'd easily average 4000+.  I've attended in the past, but I'm not going to take the time to support a program that not only isn't winning, but is embarrassing the institution.

I'd like to know that too, because I've always thought that Duke should do that as well.  As well as the Lady Devils draw, there aren't 10 students a game there usually--unless its against the holes.  Surely they could get a hundred or so to each game if it increased there chances at men's tickets.   The hope then of course is that some of them --having been exposed to the game--will keep coming just to support their team.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:07 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



89Gradv2 wrote: See the womens hoops recruiting thread for 15 pages + of the complete train wreck that is our recruiting...In a nutshell--we are 11th or 12th in the league, have been for years, and will be next year also.
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
"In a nutshell--we are 11th or 12th in the league, have been for years, and will be next year also"

This is true and until somebody that knows tells me why I will never understand it.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:09 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



rexpack71 wrote: I hope whoever is coach next year will make Marissa a graduate assistant next year if she is interested.

LOVE that idea. I hope she thinks about Coaching too but she would be awesome in a ton of things with her brains and attitude.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:16 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:25 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
The problem for the future is that next year you have 5 seniors who will be leaving, including both centers and a big forward.  This is another reason why Harper can't just be given one more year to finish her contract.  If there aren't some good recruits to fill in for next years senior class, things could get real ugly in 2015-16.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:28 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



ibmotu wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
The problem for the future is that next year you have 5 seniors who will be leaving, including both centers and a big forward.  This is another reason why Harper can't just be given one more year to finish her contract.  If there aren't some good recruits to fill in for next years senior class, things could get real ugly in 2015-16.
how much uglier than 0-5 in the ACC can it get?
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:33 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
The problem for the future is that next year you have 5 seniors who will be leaving, including both centers and a big forward.  This is another reason why Harper can't just be given one more year to finish her contract.  If there aren't some good recruits to fill in for next years senior class, things could get real ugly in 2015-16.
how much uglier than 0-5 in the ACC can it get?
Ain't seen nothing yet. We could be staring at 0-18 by then.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:36 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
The problem for the future is that next year you have 5 seniors who will be leaving, including both centers and a big forward.  This is another reason why Harper can't just be given one more year to finish her contract.  If there aren't some good recruits to fill in for next years senior class, things could get real ugly in 2015-16.
how much uglier than 0-5 in the ACC can it get?
Ain't seen nothing yet. We could be staring at 0-18 by then.
Based on what I read here, isn't that within reach this year?

3-15 or 0-18, both disasters.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:39 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
Gopack80 wrote: Harper is staring an 0-7 league start dead in the face. And I honestly don't see but maybe 5 or 6 games left that they will win.

That's not very good in year 4. This program has too much history, tradition and resources to flounder like this.

What does her recruiting for next season look like? If that's mediocre, I can go ahead and tell you right now what Debbie will be doing when this season is over.
This is the second time since Harper has been coaching here that the team has started conference play at 0-5. The only other time that has happened was nine years ago, but that team won 7 of the next 8 and actually made the NCAA tournament. I don't see this year's team being able to do that. We have never started conference play at 0-6. As for recruiting next season, if we happen to add two more good players to what we have, we might qualify for a mediocre rating. Right now the program is a true disaster.
The problem for the future is that next year you have 5 seniors who will be leaving, including both centers and a big forward.  This is another reason why Harper can't just be given one more year to finish her contract.  If there aren't some good recruits to fill in for next years senior class, things could get real ugly in 2015-16.
how much uglier than 0-5 in the ACC can it get?
Ain't seen nothing yet. We could be staring at 0-18 by then.
Duke and UNC have the top two recruiting classes in the country next year and MD is close behind.  ND and Louisville are both Top Ten teams and come in to the ACC next year--things can get a lot worse.
(btw, one of Duke's recruits for next year--Rebecca Greenwell had 51 pts last night, hitting 17-27 three pointers)
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:53 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



BlackRazor wrote:
wolfchicEE wrote:

Just goes to show, that in some ways coach hiring is still partly crap-shoot. You just can't know.
Is that ever the truth!
Yep, which our fans should remember.  Unless you've got a sure fired winner lined up (and I don't think we're the type of school that can afford that for women's basketball), then it's a crap shoot.  

I actually thought Harper would be pretty good.  I suspect a coach we'd hire will have a very similar resume.

I'm not inclined personally to pay money in buy outs for non-revenue sports.  Given our hire will be a crap shoot, I see no reason to pay extra to rush it.  I don't see how one could argue that it is a financially sound decision.  There's no promised increase in revenue that I see here.

Harper does appear to have run her course.  While not what I'd do, I suspect she'll be gone after this year barring some miraculous turn around.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 11:16 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



abcfan2005 wrote: No.

Not at this point at least. And I hate to say that, because I want this program to succeed, but another buyout would be tough on the department. 
BlackRazor wrote: Thanks wolfer!

Wow, for those who want a top notch WBB program again, you want DY to invest that much in a new coach?
don't worry. the buyout and salary increase will be included in the cost of football and MBB  tickets in 2013-14 and concessions at Carter-Finley.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/15/2013 11:18 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 


ND and Louisville should be great additions, especially ND. I look forward to see the Irish show up in Reynolds. However it will be be a much better thing if we can compete with them like we should.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 11:51 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



JesseBolt wrote: ND and Louisville should be great additions, especially ND. I look forward to see the Irish show up in Reynolds. However it will be be a much better thing if we can compete with them like we should.
The ND--Duke--MD--UNC matchups are going to be epic in the next few years.  They will all probably be top ten for the foreseeable future.  May be able to add Louisville to that list too.  I can see a year when the ACC may have 8 or 9 teams ranked in the top 25.

(Can you imagine if the ACC adds UConn in the future--that would be sick)

Last edited 1/15/2013 11:52 AM by ibmotu

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Posted: 1/15/2013 12:27 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



ibmotu wrote:
JesseBolt wrote: ND and Louisville should be great additions, especially ND. I look forward to see the Irish show up in Reynolds. However it will be be a much better thing if we can compete with them like we should.
The ND--Duke--MD--UNC matchups are going to be epic in the next few years.  They will all probably be top ten for the foreseeable future.  May be able to add Louisville to that list too.  I can see a year when the ACC may have 8 or 9 teams ranked in the top 25.

(Can you imagine if the ACC adds UConn in the future--that would be sick)
Yikes! With our program in its current and projected condition, that is going to be a brutal challenge. It looks like we should at least be able to keep up with Wake, BC, and even Miami, but that is now looking doubtful. Since we can't afford what it would take to get into a competitive position with this projected ACC group, would it be possible to get an exemption from the conference for this sport? We would be much better suited for the Sun Belt Conference. Not many people are going to show up or even follow a team that continually gets thrashed. I guess I have this weird notion that you make a serious effort to compete at the level you have selected, or you go where your capabilities fit.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 12:41 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: No.

Not at this point at least. And I hate to say that, because I want this program to succeed, but another buyout would be tough on the department. 
BlackRazor wrote: Thanks wolfer!

Wow, for those who want a top notch WBB program again, you want DY to invest that much in a new coach?
don't worry. the buyout and salary increase will be included in the cost of football and MBB  tickets in 2013-14 and concessions at Carter-Finley.
how much can a one year buyout for harper be?
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Posted: 1/15/2013 12:54 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 


For those interested,  I mentioned having 8 teams in the ACC ranked at some point in the future.  This weeks' poll has:

ND #2
Duke #4
MD #10
unc #11
Louisville #15
FSU #22
Syracuse #26
Miami #27
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Posted: 1/15/2013 12:59 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) 1/17 @ Maryland, 8:30, RSN TV 



89Gradv2 wrote: See the womens hoops recruiting thread for 15 pages + of the complete train wreck that is our recruiting...In a nutshell--we are 11th or 12th in the league, have been for years, and will be next year also.
We are currently running 13th in a 12 team league...pirate
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Posted: 1/15/2013 1:01 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfer79 wrote: I wonder how many of the 2,300 are SWPC members getting loyalty points?


Based on my observations there are lots of "floaters" there as SWPC members and also kids (they don't pay either).  Wondering how many of the 2000+/- are actually paying to attend the games.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 1:16 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 


any speculation on who our new coach will be?
 
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Posted: 1/15/2013 2:30 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote: For those interested,  I mentioned having 8 teams in the ACC ranked at some point in the future.  This weeks' poll has:

ND #2
Duke #4
MD #10
unc #11
Louisville #15
FSU #22
Syracuse #26
Miami #27
WOW that is some list! I am sure nobody wants to be on it more than DY.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 2:30 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



bppack wrote: any speculation on who our new coach will be?

It was discussed a little bit yesterday.  Try midway down page 26.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 3:04 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



JesseBolt wrote:
ibmotu wrote: For those interested,  I mentioned having 8 teams in the ACC ranked at some point in the future.  This weeks' poll has:

ND #2
Duke #4
MD #10
unc #11
Louisville #15
FSU #22
Syracuse #26
Miami #27
WOW that is some list! I am sure nobody wants to be on it more than DY.
Don't be surprised if you see GT and UVA on that list in couple of years as well.  Jo Ann Boyle will get UVA turned around for sure.  Even Wake is improving to respectability now.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 3:10 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



wolfie91 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: No.

Not at this point at least. And I hate to say that, because I want this program to succeed, but another buyout would be tough on the department. 
BlackRazor wrote: Thanks wolfer!

Wow, for those who want a top notch WBB program again, you want DY to invest that much in a new coach?
don't worry. the buyout and salary increase will be included in the cost of football and MBB  tickets in 2013-14 and concessions at Carter-Finley.
how much can a one year buyout for harper be?
from previous page


fvpackman1 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
It may have been you who's talked about the NCSU AD budget in the past, any insights on what sort of a hit it would take for a buyout or to get another coach?

Her buyout would be 247k...have no idea what a new coach will cost.....

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 1/15/2013 3:35 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote:
bppack wrote: any speculation on who our new coach will be?

It was discussed a little bit yesterday.  Try midway down page 26.
Let's see. All the names that have been suggested/mentioned at some point throughout this entire thread (that I remember):

  • Gail Goestenkors
  • Brenda Freese
  • Jen Rizzotti
  • Shea Ralph
  • Jim Jabir
  • Krista Kilburn-Steveskey
  • Dawn Staley
  • Courtney Banghart

This isn't my list or suggestions; I'm just passing along all the names I remember being offered up by others, though I do think Coach G should get first call. Others can add those I missed.

Last edited 1/15/2013 3:40 PM by loneycafe

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Posted: 1/15/2013 4:04 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (8-9, 0-5) L to Virginia 59-78 



ibmotu wrote:
bppack wrote: any speculation on who our new coach will be?

It was discussed a little bit yesterday.  Try midway down page 26.
I think for most fans that follow the program Gail Goestenkors is the first choice. She was the ACC coach of the year 7 times at Duke. Besides Kay Yow she is my favorite ACC WBB coach of all time. She knew how to whoop on the holes.
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