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Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m.

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Posted: 12/5/2012 3:42 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


As much stress as I am sure she is feeling now that Western Carolina gig that is sure to come soon (losing seasons since she left) just might be looking really good right now. She also wouldn't have to fire her husband and her friends then. IIRC, Kellie was adamant about Jon being part of the deal here.  That doesn't sound like a woman willing to fire him just to keep her job.

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Posted: 12/5/2012 3:59 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



ibmotu wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I will be shocked if that happens.  I don't foresee the team performing well enough to get Harper off of the hot seat. I also don't think Kellie will agree to a staff change even if offered as a condition of her staying here. I will be surprised if there isn't a HC change after the season.
She better think hard about that, because she will only go down in her career in the foreseeable future.  As good a game coach as I think she is, she won't even be of value as an Asst Coach at a big time school if she can't recruit.  If she is fired from State her best shot would be to go back down to the SoCon or somewhere comparable.  At that point her Tenn dream would probably be gone forever.
That dream is already up in smoke, especially with Nikki Caldwell doing a much better job at LSU. The Harper staff problem is not fixable now. Her best bet is to find some place that better suits her abilities and her comfort zone. This is just another bad Fowler experiment.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:07 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I will be shocked if that happens.  I don't foresee the team performing well enough to get Harper off of the hot seat. I also don't think Kellie will agree to a staff change even if offered as a condition of her staying here. I will be surprised if there isn't a HC change after the season.
She better think hard about that, because she will only go down in her career in the foreseeable future.  As good a game coach as I think she is, she won't even be of value as an Asst Coach at a big time school if she can't recruit.  If she is fired from State her best shot would be to go back down to the SoCon or somewhere comparable.  At that point her Tenn dream would probably be gone forever.
That dream is already up in smoke, especially with Nikki Caldwell doing a much better job at LSU. The Harper staff problem is not fixable now. Her best bet is to find some place that better suits her abilities and her comfort zone. This is just another bad Fowler experiment.
Well, to be fair this SEEMED like a good hire at the time.  Need a more experienced candidate this time.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:09 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.

Last edited 12/5/2012 4:12 PM by rexpack71

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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:22 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
When you look at it on paper or even from a slight distance, it is easy to conclude that this was a rising star in the making. But it also needs to be recognized that there is a big, big jump to go from the Southern Conference to the ACC in WBB. VT tried the same thing a few years earlier and it didn't work out for them. A good AD would know that strong recruiting is a necessary element to building a strong team, and a good sense of how that would be accomplished should have been a key to hiring. But our AD at the time had no clue, so it is up to our current AD to straighten things out.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:24 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
Yeah, it's hard to believe that not even half-way through year four, we're speculating about coaching replacements. 

I do feel bad for Harper. She has really tried to do things the right way, and she has worked her tail off. She just hitched her wagon to a few things that has ended up hurting her and the program. But my loyalty lies to a program that Kay Yow built, and I want someone in the position who will embrace that legacy, live up to it, and take it to another level.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:25 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I agree that it is a big, big jump from the Southern Conference to the ACC. I don't know if Yow would have made the same move. 
seniorwolf60 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
When you look at it on paper or even from a slight distance, it is easy to conclude that this was a rising star in the making. But it also needs to be recognized that there is a big, big jump to go from the Southern Conference to the ACC in WBB. VT tried the same thing a few years earlier and it didn't work out for them. A good AD would know that strong recruiting is a necessary element to building a strong team, and a good sense of how that would be accomplished should have been a key to hiring. But our AD at the time had no clue, so it is up to our current AD to straighten things out.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:45 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


She might, she might not. I still say it is impressive for anyone to win 3 championships at a place (even if it is Southern Conference) it has never been done. I don't think it is just fans who are surprised at the lack of success. Remember this article:




Kellie Harper might struggle initially but one women's basketball recruiting expert believes it is just a matter of time before NC State's new coach turns things around.

Bret McCormick of All-Star Girls Report has followed Harper's recruiting style for years and believes she'll make a successful transition from Western Carolina to NC State.

"I think she'll get some good recruits because it's a lot different than when she was at Western Carolina," McCormick said. "At Western Carolina, you just get mid-major kids and it's your job to develop them."





NC State has had a difficult time recruiting the last few years, but Harper will be able to provide stability.

"I think it will make a big difference, I really do," McCormick said. "Once they meet Kellie, they will like her. NC State is a great school and the campus is great. It can sell from that standpoint. The stability will help a lot.

"I expect her to do a good job personally. She's a good coach and the girls will like her. She's tough, she's fair and she knows her basketball. She can coach."

http://ncstate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=947127

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Posted: 12/5/2012 4:54 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



loneycafe wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
Yeah, it's hard to believe that not even half-way through year four, we're speculating about coaching replacements. 

I do feel bad for Harper. She has really tried to do things the right way, and she has worked her tail off. She just hitched her wagon to a few things that has ended up hurting her and the program. But my loyalty lies to a program that Kay Yow built, and I want someone in the position who will embrace that legacy, live up to it, and take it to another level.
Kellie has my respect. I hope she has a happy life whether here or somewhere else. The program comes first.

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Posted: 12/5/2012 5:46 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Poor Kastanek--if KH gets fired then it means the coach who recruited her wasn't there and the coach she played for won't be there.  She deserves better.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:32 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Seems like it was only yesterday fans were afraid of her replacing Coach Summitt at Tennessee. Boy, how times have changed.

"If you want the truth, ask me".

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Posted: 12/5/2012 9:55 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


When Kellie was hired, it was under a difficult set of circumstances. Not only had the team lost an honored coach but they had to endure the effects of her illness every day. It was a big emotional toll. Then there was the controversy surrounding the selection of a replacement, so in a way it was almost a no win situation. Kellie did come in and bring some new life and hope for the future. She had the personality to do that very well and the team responded accordingly that first season. Unfortunately, that has been the high mark of her time at State.

I had two concerns when she was selected as coach. First was the concern of making the transition from the Southern Conference to the ACC, which is a very big step. But I was hoping her association with the Tennessee program as a player might have prepared her for the level of competition. The second concern was the husband/wife coaching arrangement that had to be negotiated. In all of my years of involvement in work organizations, I have never found that kind of arrangement to be a good idea. It complicates any conflict resolution or major change implementation. The past year and a half has found the program stalled at a sub par level for the conference while the recruiting has been very anemic. This is a combination that makes it very difficult to compete on any kind of a regular basis. It is pointless to wish our way to prosperity while everything remains in place. It's unfortunale, but that's the reality.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:05 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


There have been husband-and-wife co-coaches of women's basketball teams that have done very well. Most notably, the Nepfels led San Francisco to the Sweet 16 a few years ago, although Mary Hile-Nepfel has taken over sole coaching duties there. It's not very common to have spouses as assistant coaches, but June Daughety at Washington State has had her husband on her coaching staff at Washington and her current employer.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.

Last edited 12/5/2012 10:07 PM by LETTERL

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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:30 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


The more I think about it I think Harper came in at a bad time. Not even taking into account the issue with her husband, the "next" coach after Yow was always fighting an uphill battle in terms of perception. With how everything went down with Glance not getting the job and such, I'm not sure Harper has ever been on equal footing here from a recruiting standpoint.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:54 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
loneycafe wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
Yeah, it's hard to believe that not even half-way through year four, we're speculating about coaching replacements. 

I do feel bad for Harper. She has really tried to do things the right way, and she has worked her tail off. She just hitched her wagon to a few things that has ended up hurting her and the program. But my loyalty lies to a program that Kay Yow built, and I want someone in the position who will embrace that legacy, live up to it, and take it to another level.
Kellie has my respect. I hope she has a happy life whether here or somewhere else. The program comes first.
If Kay Yow had felt this way, she would have resigned and not allowed the program to decline in her last few years.

Would Debbie have fired any coach not named Kay Yow with the results the last 10 years?

 


As for me and my house, we will support NC State
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Posted: 12/6/2012 8:44 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I don't think that's accurate or fair to say about Kay Yow. Kay Yow had her team in the Sweet 16 in 2007. She died in January 2009. It wasn't in the last 10 years that her program saw a decline. And she might have resigned if she had been working for someone other than Fowler. 

I do agree that Harper stepped into a very difficult situation. She handled the first season beautifully, and she was what the players needed at the time. But I think it's unfair to attribute problems Harper is having now to the state of the program under Kay Yow near the end of her life. Harper didn't walk into this massive rebuilding job some proclaim. The next coach will have a rebuilding job. And if there's not a next coach, then Harper needs to do a reset. 

asheson50yardline wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
loneycafe wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
Yeah, it's hard to believe that not even half-way through year four, we're speculating about coaching replacements. 

I do feel bad for Harper. She has really tried to do things the right way, and she has worked her tail off. She just hitched her wagon to a few things that has ended up hurting her and the program. But my loyalty lies to a program that Kay Yow built, and I want someone in the position who will embrace that legacy, live up to it, and take it to another level.
Kellie has my respect. I hope she has a happy life whether here or somewhere else. The program comes first.
If Kay Yow had felt this way, she would have resigned and not allowed the program to decline in her last few years.

Would Debbie have fired any coach not named Kay Yow with the results the last 10 years?

Last edited 12/6/2012 8:48 AM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/6/2012 9:16 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



loneycafe wrote:  But I think it's unfair to attribute problems Harper is having now to the state of the program under Kay Yow near the end of her life. Harper didn't walk into this massive rebuilding job some proclaim. The next coach will have a rebuilding job. And if there's not a next coach, then Harper needs to do a reset. 
I disagree. Our WBB program has not been strong for some time. We had achieved moderate success, but you could read the handwriting on the wall for most of the last decade. Programs like Duke, UNC, MD and others had passed us by and we were not competitive with them.

That's part of the problem that Harper faces, the ACC is a VERY strong WBB conference and she was dealt a sub-par program in that conference. This is no disrespect to Yow, it's a compliment to the strength that she helped build in the ACC.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 9:35 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Kay Yow's last 10 years were Herb Sendek in a skirt
make NCAAA, lose in first round

have a season that makes Sweet 16, act like N.C. State won the national championship

It is sad she had cancer.

I still ask if any other coach at NC State had Kay's results, would Debbie kept that coach?

 


As for me and my house, we will support NC State
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:41 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


We never capitalized on the class that included Stinson and Mapp.  Va, MD, and to some degree State held the top places in the ACC during that time.  Recruiting became average after that with some greats sprinkled in.  Just not enough talent at one time to sustain.
PackMan97 wrote:
loneycafe wrote:  But I think it's unfair to attribute problems Harper is having now to the state of the program under Kay Yow near the end of her life. Harper didn't walk into this massive rebuilding job some proclaim. The next coach will have a rebuilding job. And if there's not a next coach, then Harper needs to do a reset. 
I disagree. Our WBB program has not been strong for some time. We had achieved moderate success, but you could read the handwriting on the wall for most of the last decade. Programs like Duke, UNC, MD and others had passed us by and we were not competitive with them.

That's part of the problem that Harper faces, the ACC is a VERY strong WBB conference and she was dealt a sub-par program in that conference. This is no disrespect to Yow, it's a compliment to the strength that she helped build in the ACC.
Go Pack!!!!
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:15 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
loneycafe wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ It sure did. As I stated before, I think even DY might have hired her. The WCU program has fallen apart since Kellie left. It wasn't like Sidney who never showed any signs of being a good coach.
Yeah, it's hard to believe that not even half-way through year four, we're speculating about coaching replacements. 

I do feel bad for Harper. She has really tried to do things the right way, and she has worked her tail off. She just hitched her wagon to a few things that has ended up hurting her and the program. But my loyalty lies to a program that Kay Yow built, and I want someone in the position who will embrace that legacy, live up to it, and take it to another level.
Kellie has my respect. I hope she has a happy life whether here or somewhere else. The program comes first.
Well said rexpack. No matter what Kellie is first class but we will not settle for a program that is any less than that of the holes or Dukes.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:59 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Game #10: NC State (5-4) vs. Elon (3-3)
Sunday, Dec. 9 • 2 p.m. ET
Raleigh, N.C. • Reynolds Coliseum

Radio: 88.1 FM WKNC
Radio Crew: Patrick Kinas and Paige Woodard

www.gopack.com/sports/w-baskbl.../120712aab.html

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/9/2012 2:52 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Wolfpack Women lead Elon at the half, 42-34.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:13 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


15:50 left...Wolfpack Women lead 48-41.

Elon outrebounding the Pack.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:21 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Wolfpack goes on a 6-0 run to extend the lead to 54-43...timeout Elon. 12:40 left.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:24 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


11:32 left...NCState 56 Elon 45.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:33 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


7:59 left...Wolfpack Women pulling away. 70-51.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 3:41 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


3:20 left...Wolfpack Women lead 82-65.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 4:00 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


FINAL: NCState 88 Elon 73.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/9/2012 6:29 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Way to go, ladies. Maybe they can go 4-0 heading into Jan. 3 game against Duke. 

GoPack.com: Women's basketball outlasts Elon 88-73

NC State (6-4) will remain at home for its next contest, which will be Saturday, Dec. 15 at Reynolds Coliseum against Presbyterian. Opening tip is schedule for 2 p.m.

Last edited 12/9/2012 6:30 PM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:35 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (6-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon 88-73 W 


I hope they have a great week of practice.

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