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Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m.

Posted: 12/4/2012 12:21 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
Kellie has some men as assistant coaches for the first time at NC State, but I wouldn't exactly say they are the best. What we need are people who can get the job done. The gender is very much secondary to me.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 12:27 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Unless home run recruiters are hired I see more of the same down the road. Put me down for Coach G too. She is a fighter who I think would relish the challege of going against Duke and the holes. With the huge changes coming to Reynolds she would have somthing nice to sell to recruits.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 12:36 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:03 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I am hoping that Yow will give Kelly a little more time to turn the program around.  I am hoping that at the end of the year that Kelly changes her staff up and brings in a very good recruiter to help upgrade the talent level.  I think Kelly can coach and motivate the players she has but something has stopped her from bringing in top level talent.  I wish I knew why she has failed in the recruiting part of the game.  It can't be all negative recruiting by other teams.  Something must be missing.

Elon is a must win.

"Cheating The Carolina Way"  every school should do it.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:08 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
Kellie has some men as assistant coaches for the first time at NC State, but I wouldn't exactly say they are the best. What we need are people who can get the job done. The gender is very much secondary to me.
Not true. Ed Baldwin was an assistant coach in charge of recruiting in the late 80s before taking the head coaching position at UNC-Charlotte.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:13 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Robin Pate was also a long-time member of Kay Yow's staff, though I'm not sure if he ever had the official title as an assistant coach. She also had grad assistants who were men.
LETTERL wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
Kellie has some men as assistant coaches for the first time at NC State, but I wouldn't exactly say they are the best. What we need are people who can get the job done. The gender is very much secondary to me.
Not true. Ed Baldwin was an assistant coach in charge of recruiting in the late 80s before taking the head coaching position at UNC-Charlotte.

Last edited 12/4/2012 1:14 PM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:25 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I believe Pate was an assistant for 4 years before moving to another position on staff for many years. In addition to Pate and Baldwin, Wes Moore, longtime head coach at UT-Chattanooga was an assistant for two years for Coach Yow.
loneycafe wrote: Robin Pate was also a long-time member of Kay Yow's staff, though I'm not sure if he ever had the official title as an assistant coach. She also had grad assistants who were men.
LETTERL wrote:
seniorwolf60 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
Kellie has some men as assistant coaches for the first time at NC State, but I wouldn't exactly say they are the best. What we need are people who can get the job done. The gender is very much secondary to me.
Not true. Ed Baldwin was an assistant coach in charge of recruiting in the late 80s before taking the head coaching position at UNC-Charlotte.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 1:51 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I don't care if the next coach has a wiener all I want is a winner tongue

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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:02 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


This mess with Kelly and her assistant husband is PRECISELY the reason the University has an anti-nepotism policy, the very policy the Bd of Trustees agreed to waive in order to hire Harper banghead


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:15 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Yes Robin Pate was an assistant for a couple years before moving to the Director of Basketball Operations.

Coach Yow also had Wes Moore for two years as an assistant.  He is still the head coach at UT-Chattanooga.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:28 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
Just. Wow.

Personally, I like hiring the BEST candidate for a job, whether it be a male or female, black or white, gay or straight.

And I'm the "conservative".  noidea
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:32 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



89Gradv2 wrote: This mess with Kelly and her assistant husband is PRECISELY the reason the University has an anti-nepotism policy, the very policy the Bd of Trustees agreed to waive in order to hire Harper banghead

I thought he was an unpaid assistant.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:35 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



Pack87 wrote:
89Gradv2 wrote: This mess with Kelly and her assistant husband is PRECISELY the reason the University has an anti-nepotism policy, the very policy the Bd of Trustees agreed to waive in order to hire Harper banghead

I thought he was an unpaid assistant.
He is an unpaid assistant.  Does that mean they have an extra spot for a coach or does the NCAA count him as one of the coaches?
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:42 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



Pack87 wrote:
89Gradv2 wrote: This mess with Kelly and her assistant husband is PRECISELY the reason the University has an anti-nepotism policy, the very policy the Bd of Trustees agreed to waive in order to hire Harper banghead

I thought he was an unpaid assistant.
from March 2011

Nepotism policy and coaching search


wolfer79 wrote: This has been asked several times, so it is going to get its own topic, if for no other reason, it makes it easier for me to find when someone asks.


The University of North Carolina system has a policy on "Employment of Related Persons (Anti-Nepotism Policy)"

http://www.northcarolina.edu/policy/index.php?pg=v s&id=328

Consistent with the principle that University employees and prospective employees shall be evaluated on the basis of individual merit, without reference to considerations of race, sex, religion or national origin, or any other factors not involving personal professional qualifications and performance, the following restrictions, designed to avoid the possibility of favoritism based on family or personal relationship, shall be observed with respect to institutional personnel who are not subject to the State Personnel Act:

(A)1.             Related persons shall not serve concurrently within the institution in any case where one such related person would occupy a position having responsibility for the direct supervision of the other related person.

(A) 3.            With respect to the concurrent service of related persons within the same academic department (or other comparable institutional subdivision of employment), neither related person shall be permitted, either individually or as a member of a faculty or as a member of a committee of a faculty, to participate in the evaluation of the other related person.

B.            Definition of "Related Persons"

The following relationships are sufficiently immediate to invoke the prohibitions against concurrent service of related persons:

1.             Parent or child

2.            Brothers and sisters

3.            Grandparent and grandchild

4.            Aunt and/or uncle and niece and/or nephew

5.            First cousins

6.            Stepparent and stepchild

7.            Stepbrothers and stepsisters

8.            Husband and wife

9.            Parents-in-law and children-in-law

10.          Brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law

11. Guardian and ward

12.          Persons engaged in amorous relationships; an amorous relationship exists when, without the benefit of marriage, two persons voluntarily have a sexual union or are engaged in a romantic courtship (e.g., dating or engaged to be married) that may or may not have been consummated sexually.



since Sean Miller is mentioned as a candidate if there an opening for head basketball coach at NC State and his brother, Archie, is on his staff at Arizona, this policy could be an issue.

some will ask, "how is Jon Harper an assistant coach for head women's basketball coach Kellie Harper, since they are husband and wife?"

short answer: Jon does not get paid

long answer:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/03/366896/harp ers-are-a-coaching-marriage.html#ixzz1FC0KWuSC

The obstacle the Harpers faced was the university's nepotism policy, which prohibits family members from supervising other family members who are paid employees of the school, or making decisions on their salaries.

Fowler, who hired Kellie Harper, said he knew the situation could work, but in order to be "above board" he carried the request to the office of former chancellor James Oblinger.

 

It was determined that Jon Harper would be brought in as a non-paid assistant, while Kellie Harper would earn a base salary of $247,209 - the same coach Kay Yow earned.

 

Jon Harper is reimbursed for business expenses from the women's basketball budget. He is also allowed to earn income from summer camps, which are considered privately owned and outside the purview of the university.

 

Jon Harper, who was a part-time employee at Western Carolina, respects the nepotism policy, even if he doesn't agree with the premise.



I do not know why Jon Harper could be a a part-time employee at Western Carolina and an non-paid assistant at NC State. Maybe Fowler and Oblinger were being too worried about the policy, maybe they looked at all options and thought this was the best way to handle Coach Harper's situation. Maybe they just took the easy way out.

Anyway, this is the policy. There are probably ways to get exemptions or variances and IF there is an opening and IF Coach Miller is considered and IF he wants to bring Archie as an assistant, then this will need to addressed.

I also do not know if coaches are exempt from the State Personnel Act. I am sure someone will find out before I can search it.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/4/2012 3:20 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



PackBacker1 wrote:

I am hoping that Yow will give Kelly a little more time to turn the program around.  I am hoping that at the end of the year that Kelly changes her staff up and brings in a very good recruiter to help upgrade the talent level.  I think Kelly can coach and motivate the players she has but something has stopped her from bringing in top level talent.  I wish I knew why she has failed in the recruiting part of the game.  It can't be all negative recruiting by other teams.  Something must be missing.

Elon is a must win.


Unfortunately, this is a year too late. It was desperately needed after last season and has become a determining factor in Kellie's failure to strengthen the program. A true leader will see when something is not working and make changes even if it means going against strong loyalties. We have several examples in our athletics history where coaches were given extra time when their programs were floundering and the ingredients for turnaround were absent. Finally the inevitable change had to occur. If recruiting were not a vital part of the job, she would be fine. But since it is, there's a problem that no amount of coaching ability or motivation can overcome. On any given day, effort and some lucky bounces can give us an upset win, but those are rare occasions with our talent level.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 4:52 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Women have limited opportunities in sports already. I have no problem if we have one or two male assistants but the top job at a program in one of the best WBB conferences in the country should go to a woman if at all possible. If Geno or Gary Blair is interested I might change my mind.

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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:05 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
PackBacker1 wrote:

I am hoping that Yow will give Kelly a little more time to turn the program around.  I am hoping that at the end of the year that Kelly changes her staff up and brings in a very good recruiter to help upgrade the talent level.  I think Kelly can coach and motivate the players she has but something has stopped her from bringing in top level talent.  I wish I knew why she has failed in the recruiting part of the game.  It can't be all negative recruiting by other teams.  Something must be missing.

Elon is a must win.


Unfortunately, this is a year too late. It was desperately needed after last season and has become a determining factor in Kellie's failure to strengthen the program. A true leader will see when something is not working and make changes even if it means going against strong loyalties. We have several examples in our athletics history where coaches were given extra time when their programs were floundering and the ingredients for turnaround were absent. Finally the inevitable change had to occur. If recruiting were not a vital part of the job, she would be fine. But since it is, there's a problem that no amount of coaching ability or motivation can overcome. On any given day, effort and some lucky bounces can give us an upset win, but those are rare occasions with our talent level.
I think so too Senior.  With unc and Duke bringing in the #1 and #2 classes in the country next year, I think to time to get new assts has past.  Its not like State is going to compete with those two (or UMD or ND or UL), but right now it's going to be a struggle to stay out of the bottom 3 or 4 in the conference, and that's not acceptable.
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Posted: 12/4/2012 5:26 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Women have limited opportunities in sports already. I have no problem if we have one or two male assistants but the top job at a program in one of the best WBB conferences in the country should go to a woman if at all possible. If Geno or Gary Blair is interested I might change my mind.
No
just like any other job it should go to the best candidate or shut the program down

I am going to get someone to email DY over this yet

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


Last edited 12/4/2012 5:33 PM by wolfer79

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Posted: 12/4/2012 6:01 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


Over the past four decades, the number of female college athletes has soared, but the percentage of female coaches has plummeted. In 1972, when Title IX was passed, women coached more than 90 percent of women's teams. By 1978, that number had already dipped to 58.2 percent. This year, it's down to 42.9 percent, according to the most recent survey by Brooklyn College professors emerita R. Vivian Acosta and Linda Jean Carpenter. That figure has hardly budged over the past six years.

But while some experts may consider this holding pattern a victory, the raw numbers say otherwise. Since 2000, NCAA programs have added 1,774 women's head coaching jobs. Men have filled 1,220 of the openings.

Women have entered the rest of the workforce at all levels and now make up 57 percent of college students. Sports are bigger than ever for them too, with an average of 8.73 women's teams per school.

And yet female coaches continue to be sidelined. Stanford women's basketball coach Tara VanDerveer is only half-joking when she says, "We'll have a female president -- and one woman coaching women's college basketball."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn...ge=theGlassWall


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Posted: 12/4/2012 6:02 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Women have limited opportunities in sports already. I have no problem if we have one or two male assistants but the top job at a program in one of the best WBB conferences in the country should go to a woman if at all possible. If Geno or Gary Blair is interested I might change my mind.
No
just like any other job it should go to the best candidate or shut the program down

I am going to get someone to email DY over this yet
We will have to agree to disagree. I would actually love to know what she thinks about this. I have never emailed her and doubt I ever will though.

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Posted: 12/4/2012 6:06 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Women have limited opportunities in sports already. I have no problem if we have one or two male assistants but the top job at a program in one of the best WBB conferences in the country should go to a woman if at all possible. If Geno or Gary Blair is interested I might change my mind.
No
just like any other job it should go to the best candidate or shut the program down

I am going to get someone to email DY over this yet
We will have to agree to disagree. I would actually love to know what she thinks about this. I have never emailed her and doubt I ever will though.
that's cool with me

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:45 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
wolfer79 wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: ^ I don't care. Coach Yow was a pioneer in women's athletics. It seems wrong to give the job to a man if we end up hiring another coach considering how hard she worked to create opportunities for women.
it seems wrong not to hire the best person. Make it a club sport if gender of the coach matters and stop keeping score.
I might feel differently if we lived in a world where people don't ***** at just the sight of a woman broadcasting a football or MBB game or the AD at Virginia Tech actually hiring the best candidate instead of a man who never coached a day of WBB in his life.
so the AD at Virginia Tech does something stupid and NC State should do something stupid in return?

token hires rarely works and is unfair to everyone. The uniform says NC State not Kay Yow on the front.

Best coach probably will be female

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Didn't Leon Barmore win one at Louisiana Tech? 1988 or 1989?


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 11:13 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



LETTERL wrote:

3 of last 4 NCAAT Champions coached by a male coach, Gene Blair and Geno (2). Only 3 NCCAT titles won by male head coach.
Didn't Leon Barmore win one at Louisiana Tech? 1988 or 1989?
that is what I was trying to say, but did not make it clear.

3 male head women's coaches have won NCAAT WBB championships
Geno (7)
Blair (1)
Barmore (1)

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:46 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


All of that is fine and good, but according to News & Observer website on State of North Carolina Employees' Salaries, Jon was hired Jan 2011 and makes $95,000.
I don't care how much he makes, but don't paint it as still "unpaid" when it is actually $95,000!

http://www.newsobserver.com/20...e-salaries.html

wolfer79 wrote:
Pack87 wrote:
89Gradv2 wrote: This mess with Kelly and her assistant husband is PRECISELY the reason the University has an anti-nepotism policy, the very policy the Bd of Trustees agreed to waive in order to hire Harper banghead

I thought he was an unpaid assistant.
from March 2011

Nepotism policy and coaching search


wolfer79 wrote: This has been asked several times, so it is going to get its own topic, if for no other reason, it makes it easier for me to find when someone asks.


The University of North Carolina system has a policy on "Employment of Related Persons (Anti-Nepotism Policy)"

http://www.northcarolina.edu/policy/index.php?pg=v s&id=328

Consistent with the principle that University employees and prospective employees shall be evaluated on the basis of individual merit, without reference to considerations of race, sex, religion or national origin, or any other factors not involving personal professional qualifications and performance, the following restrictions, designed to avoid the possibility of favoritism based on family or personal relationship, shall be observed with respect to institutional personnel who are not subject to the State Personnel Act:

(A)1.             Related persons shall not serve concurrently within the institution in any case where one such related person would occupy a position having responsibility for the direct supervision of the other related person.

(A) 3.            With respect to the concurrent service of related persons within the same academic department (or other comparable institutional subdivision of employment), neither related person shall be permitted, either individually or as a member of a faculty or as a member of a committee of a faculty, to participate in the evaluation of the other related person.

B.            Definition of "Related Persons"

The following relationships are sufficiently immediate to invoke the prohibitions against concurrent service of related persons:

1.             Parent or child

2.            Brothers and sisters

3.            Grandparent and grandchild

4.            Aunt and/or uncle and niece and/or nephew

5.            First cousins

6.            Stepparent and stepchild

7.            Stepbrothers and stepsisters

8.            Husband and wife

9.            Parents-in-law and children-in-law

10.          Brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law

11. Guardian and ward

12.          Persons engaged in amorous relationships; an amorous relationship exists when, without the benefit of marriage, two persons voluntarily have a sexual union or are engaged in a romantic courtship (e.g., dating or engaged to be married) that may or may not have been consummated sexually.



since Sean Miller is mentioned as a candidate if there an opening for head basketball coach at NC State and his brother, Archie, is on his staff at Arizona, this policy could be an issue.

some will ask, "how is Jon Harper an assistant coach for head women's basketball coach Kellie Harper, since they are husband and wife?"

short answer: Jon does not get paid

long answer:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/03/366896/harp ers-are-a-coaching-marriage.html#ixzz1FC0KWuSC

The obstacle the Harpers faced was the university's nepotism policy, which prohibits family members from supervising other family members who are paid employees of the school, or making decisions on their salaries.

Fowler, who hired Kellie Harper, said he knew the situation could work, but in order to be "above board" he carried the request to the office of former chancellor James Oblinger.

 

It was determined that Jon Harper would be brought in as a non-paid assistant, while Kellie Harper would earn a base salary of $247,209 - the same coach Kay Yow earned.

 

Jon Harper is reimbursed for business expenses from the women's basketball budget. He is also allowed to earn income from summer camps, which are considered privately owned and outside the purview of the university.

 

Jon Harper, who was a part-time employee at Western Carolina, respects the nepotism policy, even if he doesn't agree with the premise.



I do not know why Jon Harper could be a a part-time employee at Western Carolina and an non-paid assistant at NC State. Maybe Fowler and Oblinger were being too worried about the policy, maybe they looked at all options and thought this was the best way to handle Coach Harper's situation. Maybe they just took the easy way out.

Anyway, this is the policy. There are probably ways to get exemptions or variances and IF there is an opening and IF Coach Miller is considered and IF he wants to bring Archie as an assistant, then this will need to addressed.

I also do not know if coaches are exempt from the State Personnel Act. I am sure someone will find out before I can search it.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:50 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



redmoonrising wrote: All of that is fine and good, but according to News & Observer website on State of North Carolina Employees' Salaries, Jon was hired Jan 2011 and makes $95,000.
I don't care how much he makes, but don't paint it as still "unpaid" when it is actually $95,000!


another Fowler lie, stupid me for believing the Man from Lake Gaston

at the end of 2012-13 season, it will only matter if he is owed a buyout. Jon and Kelly will be fired (or to use Yow's term "will not return").

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


Last edited 12/5/2012 1:51 PM by wolfer79

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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:01 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



wolfer79 wrote:
redmoonrising wrote: All of that is fine and good, but according to News & Observer website on State of North Carolina Employees' Salaries, Jon was hired Jan 2011 and makes $95,000.
I don't care how much he makes, but don't paint it as still "unpaid" when it is actually $95,000!


another Fowler lie, stupid me for believing the Man from Lake Gaston

at the end of 2012-13 season, it will only matter if he is owed a buyout. Jon and Kelly will be fired (or to use Yow's term "will not return").
If not, it will be a drastic departure from our AD's normal actions regarding performance. She needs to salvage the program while she can. We now have coaches who literally are out of their league.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:02 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


I agree with Wolfer that at this point she's doomed...does anyone think Harper is doing a BETTER job than TOB was?  Only way Harper stays is if the budget won't allow a firing.  Remember, the "we lost $1.4 million in revenue because of dropoff in season tickets" rationale won't apply in this situation.

Actually, after what happened in football, I'm a little surprised DY didn't pull the plug on Harper last season.  When this year's debacle is over, it will be that much harder a job for the next coach...


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:04 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



89Gradv2 wrote: I agree with Wolfer that at this point she's doomed.
I hope I can eat crow in March as both Harpers leads the Wolfpack Women in an ACCT title and deep run in NCAAT.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:30 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


^ I will be shocked if that happens.  I don't foresee the team performing well enough to get Harper off of the hot seat. I also don't think Kellie will agree to a staff change even if offered as a condition of her staying here. I will be surprised if there isn't a HC change after the season.

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Posted: 12/5/2012 3:19 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



rexpack71 wrote: ^ I will be shocked if that happens.  I don't foresee the team performing well enough to get Harper off of the hot seat. I also don't think Kellie will agree to a staff change even if offered as a condition of her staying here. I will be surprised if there isn't a HC change after the season.
She better think hard about that, because she will only go down in her career in the foreseeable future.  As good a game coach as I think she is, she won't even be of value as an Asst Coach at a big time school if she can't recruit.  If she is fired from State her best shot would be to go back down to the SoCon or somewhere comparable.  At that point her Tenn dream would probably be gone forever.
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