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Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81

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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:13 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
but wouldn't any NCSU coach have to deal with that? If that coach isn't do well they could claim they'll soon be fired & if they're doing well they could claim another school will soon hire that coach away from NCSU.

It's hard to believe that claim was the reason her 1st couple of years @ NCSU when she just got there.
I really don't know what she is like on the recruiting trail, but that's a tougher part of the business than game time because you can't see exactly what your opposition is doing. You just have to be prepared for anything. During interviews, I get the impression that Kellie might be too timid away from the court. As I have said before, this conference is loaded with barracudas, and anyone who swims in the waters better be ready to take them on.
Maybe Kellie is too nice? Next coach needs to be able to fight these people off the court.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:17 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



LETTERL wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
I look at our roster and think "gosh, these ladies are really good." But that is not translating to wins. I don't think the problem is recruiting...although we aren't getting the top-ranked recruits. But Kay Yow didn't always get the best players either and our teams were still competitive. After the Stinson/Mapp/Manning group, NCState had trouble getting the most sought after players to come here. Didn't keep us from making national news.

They may be "good", but they aren't ACC good.  Talent is definitely the problem and recruiting is how you get that talent.  There isn't one player on State that would start for Duke right now--not even Kastanek.  The same could be said for UMD before they had two ACL injuries.  So how are you going to compete for ACC titles when your best player wouldn't even start for other teams in your conference?  Burke and Kastanek would get some minutes, but no one else on the team would even play.
With the Freshmen classes coming in next year, this gap is only getting bigger--much bigger.  Thats why KH has to go.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:20 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote:
Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
How do you know this?  WaffleIron?  I'm sorry, this doesn't hold much water.  She's been here long enough to get quality players.
I heard it from someone who would definitely know. You can believe it or not.
Okay...assuming it's true, she has to be able to combat that.  Hell, even coaches like Pat Summitt and Geno were/are negatively recruited against all the time.

"If you want the truth, ask me".

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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:35 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


I really wanted to see Harper succeed here. I want to pull for this team, they are a great group of ladies. I want them to see that people care about WBB and are passionate about it. I hope that they can get the ball rolling but my hope is fading fast.

Last edited 12/3/2012 3:35 PM by WolfpackSportsman

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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:42 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
How do you know this?  WaffleIron?  I'm sorry, this doesn't hold much water.  She's been here long enough to get quality players.
I heard it from someone who would definitely know. You can believe it or not.
Okay...assuming it's true, she has to be able to combat that.  Hell, even coaches like Pat Summitt and Geno were/are negatively recruited against all the time.
This.  "Hey, you don't want to go to Tennessee...didn't you hear their coach has dementia?  Sure hasn't slowed down the Vols much.

Say what you want, but if Debbie pulled the plug on TOB after the season he had, Kelly is "dead woman walking"  I know I'll be accused of jumping the gun, but the way this team looks, I'll be absolutely astounded if it gets to 0.500 in ACC play...


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:51 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



ibmotu wrote:
LETTERL wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
I look at our roster and think "gosh, these ladies are really good." But that is not translating to wins. I don't think the problem is recruiting...although we aren't getting the top-ranked recruits. But Kay Yow didn't always get the best players either and our teams were still competitive. After the Stinson/Mapp/Manning group, NCState had trouble getting the most sought after players to come here. Didn't keep us from making national news.

They may be "good", but they aren't ACC good.  Talent is definitely the problem and recruiting is how you get that talent.  There isn't one player on State that would start for Duke right now--not even Kastanek.  The same could be said for UMD before they had two ACL injuries.  So how are you going to compete for ACC titles when your best player wouldn't even start for other teams in your conference?  Burke and Kastanek would get some minutes, but no one else on the team would even play.
With the Freshmen classes coming in next year, this gap is only getting bigger--much bigger.  Thats why KH has to go.
ibmotu has it right. 

It is the recruiting talent, not the coaching that is the problem. I love the fact they play hard but you have to be good enough, to win enough. That being said I will pull for them 100% like I always do. I bet the players are feeling the pressure as is the Coach.

Also, I still have a very hard time believing most of the recruiting problem is Reynolds.  
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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:52 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
How do you know this?  WaffleIron?  I'm sorry, this doesn't hold much water.  She's been here long enough to get quality players.
I heard it from someone who would definitely know. You can believe it or not.
Okay...assuming it's true, she has to be able to combat that.  Hell, even coaches like Pat Summitt and Geno were/are negatively recruited against all the time.
I know and it doesn't seem she has been able to do that. I am not using this an excuse to keep Harper. At this point I think it a foregone conclusion what is going to happen. I am merely stating why (partially) I think she has had problems recruiting top players.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:59 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



WolfpackSportsman wrote: I really wanted to see Harper succeed here. I want to pull for this team, they are a great group of ladies. I want them to see that people care about WBB and are passionate about it. I hope that they can get the ball rolling but my hope is fading fast.
Me too. I am not looking forward to what I think is going to happen at the end of the season. I will still be at every game I can cheering on the Wolfpack Women and Coach Harper.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:00 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


It's easy to get caught up in Cinderella type stories where a delightful young coach takes over a team that endured several years of heartbreak and is looking for a ray of sunshine to take them forward. Unfortunately, ACC basketball is not a world of make believe and it takes ability of the highest order to compete with the best in the conference. It would be a pleasure to me if KH could have been able to move the program forward, but it takes much better talent than she has or seems to be able to get. This is a condition that time alone will not fix. Our AD has already replaced a mens' basketball coach and a football coach who were working with better relative talent than exists in the WBB program. Kellie would be better off coaching some smaller program in Tennessee.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:02 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote:
WolfpackSportsman wrote: I really wanted to see Harper succeed here. I want to pull for this team, they are a great group of ladies. I want them to see that people care about WBB and are passionate about it. I hope that they can get the ball rolling but my hope is fading fast.
Me too. I am not looking forward to what I think is going to happen at the end of the season. I will still be at every game I can cheering on the Wolfpack Women and Coach Harper.
Same here.  I know this is sexist but if we're going to have a female coach I want her to be eye candy.  Now we'll probably get someone who looks like a young Sylvia Hatchell.

"If you want the truth, ask me".

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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:11 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
WolfpackSportsman wrote: I really wanted to see Harper succeed here. I want to pull for this team, they are a great group of ladies. I want them to see that people care about WBB and are passionate about it. I hope that they can get the ball rolling but my hope is fading fast.
Me too. I am not looking forward to what I think is going to happen at the end of the season. I will still be at every game I can cheering on the Wolfpack Women and Coach Harper.
Same here.  I know this is sexist but if we're going to have a female coach I want her to be eye candy.  Now we'll probably get someone who looks like a young Sylvia Hatchell. 
Part of the fun of going to a game is seeing Coach Kellie in person. I can't lie about that.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:20 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:38 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Unlike some of the other teams at State, this team generally fights and has good intensity every game.  Therefore, I would see if I could shake up the staff especially in the recruiting areas.  If KH has as much loyalty to her staff as TOB, then you probably will have to let her go.
Go Pack!!!!
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:39 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



loneycafe wrote: Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:43 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



ibmotu wrote:
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.
too bad Skyler will be gone by the time ND's a full member.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:03 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



 
^Yeah, I know what you're thinking Razor--------------------and it isn't basketball....wink

Last edited 12/3/2012 5:13 PM by ibmotu

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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:06 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



ibmotu wrote:
loneycafe wrote: Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.
If Harper is let go, it would be my preference that a woman got the job unless a male candidate is considerably the best candidate.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:15 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
loneycafe wrote: Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.
If Harper is let go, it would be my preference that a woman got the job unless a male candidate is considerably the best candidate.
I think that is preferable too, but Yow would have to go with the best available whether its a man or woman.  Coach G is available, she should be talking to her tonight.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:35 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


If it doesn't work out with Kellie would she be interested even if she took a considerable pay cut? I don't Yow paying her anywhere close to what she was making in Austin.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:38 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Yes, I chose my words carefully.

---------------------------------------------
--- ibmotu wrote:


loneycafe wrote: Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:48 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


I agree that the first call should be to Coach G. Given the coaching changes the past few years, State should be the most attractive opening if Harper is out after this season -- another reason why I think this will be it for Harper.

I imagine Debbie Antonelli will play more of a real role in this coaching search this go around, and I hope she can serve as a nice conduit for Coach G. Is it crazy to dream she would come here?

---------------------------------------------
--- ibmotu wrote:


rexpack71 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
loneycafe wrote: Lots of good, fair discussion.

As others have said, I'll continue to support the program and hope that Harper finds some success with this team and that the players come together.
Thats the key--you support the PROGRAM.  I like KH and I will be sad to see her have to step down, but the program is bigger than one coach or player.  Hopefully, someone new can come in and turn things around.  I was hoping KH would be taking away a lot of Sylvia's recruits by now, but it never happened.  Whoever DY gets, she/he better be tough if they is going to compete for recruits in this league.  With ND coming in the top of the league will be unbeleivable.
If Harper is let go, it would be my preference that a woman got the job unless a male candidate is considerably the best candidate.
I think that is preferable too, but Yow would have to go with the best available whether its a man or woman.  Coach G is available, she should be talking to her tonight.

---------------------------------------------

Last edited 12/3/2012 5:52 PM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:07 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


^She's currently unemployed, right?

We couldn't pay her anything close to watch she was use to making. She'd have to just have a desire to return to the triangle.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:14 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



ibmotu wrote:
I think that is preferable too, but Yow would have to go with the best available whether its a man or woman.  Coach G is available, she should be talking to her tonight.
Coach G resigned about 9 months ago because (her words)

"I'm leaving basketball," Goestenkors said. "My heart is telling me it's time to take a break."

what has changed?

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:21 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Insiders say she actually sought an open coaching position (Michigan's?) after she made that announcement.

Maybe a year is enough -- and maybe she just needs out of Texas and the Big 12 landscape. Who knows, but it wouldn't hurt to call her, would it?
wolfer79 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
I think that is preferable too, but Yow would have to go with the best available whether its a man or woman.  Coach G is available, she should be talking to her tonight.
Coach G resigned about 9 months ago because (her words)

"I'm leaving basketball," Goestenkors said. "My heart is telling me it's time to take a break."

what has changed?
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Posted: 12/3/2012 6:22 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


many a woman has told me no over the years
loneycafe wrote: Insiders say she actually sought an open coaching position (Michigan's?) after she made that announcement.

Maybe a year is enough -- and maybe she just needs out of Texas and the Big 12 landscape. Who knows, but it wouldn't hurt to call her, would it?
wolfer79 wrote:
ibmotu wrote:
I think that is preferable too, but Yow would have to go with the best available whether its a man or woman.  Coach G is available, she should be talking to her tonight.
Coach G resigned about 9 months ago because (her words)

"I'm leaving basketball," Goestenkors said. "My heart is telling me it's time to take a break."

what has changed?

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/3/2012 7:37 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 




---------------------------------------------
--- rexpack71 wrote:

If it doesn't work out with Kellie would she be interested even if she took a considerable pay cut? I don't Yow paying her anywhere close to what she was making in Austin.

---------------------------------------------

Rex, i know NCSU could and would never pay G the million she was getting at Texas, nor do I think G would come to State anyway, but the point is that Yow needs to try, and if she says no, then you move on to the next big name. Maybe Katie Meier would leave Miami.
Debbie needs to think big this time.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 8:33 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 



ibmotu wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- rexpack71 wrote:

If it doesn't work out with Kellie would she be interested even if she took a considerable pay cut? I don't Yow paying her anywhere close to what she was making in Austin.

---------------------------------------------

Rex, i know NCSU could and would never pay G the million she was getting at Texas, nor do I think G would come to State anyway, but the point is that Yow needs to try, and if she says no, then you move on to the next big name. Maybe Katie Meier would leave Miami.
Debbie needs to think big this time.
We need someone like Melanie Balcomb at Vanderbilt.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:01 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
So, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the buyout would be?  She has... 1 year left on her contract?  Or has she gotten any extensions from the original 5 year deal
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:13 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/9 home, vs. Elon, 2 p.m. 


It seems Coach G would be our best shot at landing a big name if it comes to that. Why would another one leave the program they are at now to come here? Any money would surely be matched.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:18 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Zhuge1 wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
So, out of curiosity, does anyone know what the buyout would be?  She has... 1 year left on her contract?  Or has she gotten any extensions from the original 5 year deal

NCSU Women’s Basketball Coach Kellie Harper
Contract: April 16, 2009 – April 15, 2014
Annual Salary: $247,209

Bonuses/Perks:

  • Two months extra salary if the basketball team is the ACC regular season champion, ACC tournament champion or receives an invitation to the NCAA Division I women’s basketball post-season tournament.
  • Three months extra salary if the basketball team appears among the Sweet Sixteen
  • Four months extra salary if the basketball team appears among the Final Four
  • $50,000 if the basketball team’s graduation rate per NCAA six-year reporting rate is equal to or greater than 55 percent.
  • Coach can advise the athletic director on selection and hiring of the following positions:
    • Sports Information Director
    • Director of Sports Medicine
    • Head women’s basketball trainer
    • Strength Coach for the basketball team
    • All support staff in the basketball office
    • Equipment manager
    • Athletic director
  • Coach shall have input into design and development of any and all NCSU basketball facilities
  • Shall schedule games for the basketball program

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