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Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81

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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:15 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Goodbye Mrs. Harper.

I see very little reason to keep her.  She's not getting it done on the recruiting trail nor the hardwood - both very important to AD Yow.  We should've probably won all 3 games that we've lost this season.

We can even curse other teams from afar.  - rswilli2

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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:29 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


The question now is: Will she last through the whole season?
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:37 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Another disappointing loss.  Hopefully we right the ship soon, or this is going to be another long season.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:42 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Other score to lift spirits: Tennessee manhandled UNC 102-57.

Last edited 12/2/2012 5:45 PM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:05 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



pltwolves wrote: The question now is: Will she last through the whole season?
I would imagine she lasts through the season.  Beyond this, though, may boil down a bit to economics.  She should have at least 2 years left guaranteed -- I guess the question is can we afford to hire a new coach while keeping her on the payroll given we've got quite a few ex-coaches on the payroll at present.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:13 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Zhuge1 wrote:
pltwolves wrote: The question now is: Will she last through the whole season?
I would imagine she lasts through the season.  Beyond this, though, may boil down a bit to economics.  She should have at least 2 years left guaranteed -- I guess the question is can we afford to hire a new coach while keeping her on the payroll given we've got quite a few ex-coaches on the payroll at present.
same comment as O'Brien situation

fire the coach or "Wolfpack Unlimited; Do Not Accept the Status Quo" is a cute phrase with no substance behind it.

FB prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4, (2013) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9,10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7,12-6


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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:20 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



loneycafe wrote: Other score to lift spirits: Tennessee manhandled UNC 102-57.
wow! and that's not the Tenn of old when they were perennial NCAA champs.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:03 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Yet another Fowler hire that didnt pan out.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:43 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


The only way I see DY keeping KH past this season is because of financial reasons.  Even then, I think Yow must find a way to act if she is to save the program from slipping further.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:20 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:21 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:30 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
Last season there were obvious problems, but there were a lot of freshmen and sophs playing. Even teams with a lot of talent can have problems if the talent is very young. But this season, those same problems still exist and there certainly isn't much real good talent coming into the program. So, it doesn't take a basketball genius to tell where the program is headed. This season will be it for Harper. I expect a behind the scenes search for potential replacements to begin soon.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:31 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


JP, Is that your speculation, or have you heard something?

Serious questions: What would be gained by letting Harper go during the middle of season? ACC play hasn't even started yet. And who would even be the interim coach? She doesn't have anyone on the coaching staff who can step in and fill in. 

I don't think she gets another year, but I'd be shocked if she's let go during the season. 

PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.

Last edited 12/3/2012 10:45 AM by loneycafe

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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:46 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
Sadly, I think you're exactly right. Yow demands excellence and she's not afraid to cut the cord to achieve it.

Although I like Debbie Yow and am glad she holds high expectations, I would not want to be a coach in her administration who is even flirting with mediocrity. The pressure must be tremendous and if it were me, I'd be hiding every time she was in my vicinity.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 10:56 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Just my opinion and speculation.  Seeing how DY operates and where Women's bball has been and where it's at now, no way Harper survives.  Plus, she isn't DY's coach...which always exacerbates the problem/issue.
loneycafe wrote: JP, Is that your speculation, or have you heard something?

Serious questions: What would be gained by letting Harper go during the middle of season? ACC play hasn't even started yet. And who would even be the interim coach? She doesn't have anyone on the coaching staff who can step in and fill in. 

I don't think she gets another year, but I'd be shocked if she's let go during the season. 

PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:09 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



JP1974 wrote: Just my opinion and speculation.  Seeing how DY operates and where Women's bball has been and where it's at now, no way Harper survives.  Plus, she isn't DY's coach...which always exacerbates the problem/issue.
loneycafe wrote: JP, Is that your speculation, or have you heard something?

Serious questions: What would be gained by letting Harper go during the middle of season? ACC play hasn't even started yet. And who would even be the interim coach? She doesn't have anyone on the coaching staff who can step in and fill in. 

I don't think she gets another year, but I'd be shocked if she's let go during the season. 

PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
 Yow has repeatedly said in the past she didn't make evaluations of coaches until their season is over?


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Posted: 12/3/2012 11:37 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Yes.  Probably right.  Doesn't change my opinion that she's gone though.
89Gradv2 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Just my opinion and speculation.  Seeing how DY operates and where Women's bball has been and where it's at now, no way Harper survives.  Plus, she isn't DY's coach...which always exacerbates the problem/issue.
loneycafe wrote: JP, Is that your speculation, or have you heard something?

Serious questions: What would be gained by letting Harper go during the middle of season? ACC play hasn't even started yet. And who would even be the interim coach? She doesn't have anyone on the coaching staff who can step in and fill in. 

I don't think she gets another year, but I'd be shocked if she's let go during the season. 

PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
 Yow has repeatedly said in the past she didn't make evaluations of coaches until their season is over?
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:20 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



loneycafe wrote: JP, Is that your speculation, or have you heard something?

Serious questions: What would be gained by letting Harper go during the middle of season? ACC play hasn't even started yet. And who would even be the interim coach? She doesn't have anyone on the coaching staff who can step in and fill in. 

I don't think she gets another year, but I'd be shocked if she's let go during the season. 

PackMan97 wrote:
JP1974 wrote: Harper is gone. She may not make it to the end of the season. Very little financial liability for women's bball coach. Yow doesn't play and she will part ways with Kellie asap.
I'd be surprised to see it happen in the middle of the season, though with recruiting as it is...it's not as if you lose anything.
Agreed. I wonder if Harper might go back to WCU. They haven't been good since she left.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:23 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



loneycafe wrote: Other score to lift spirits: Tennessee manhandled UNC 102-57.
Wow! Harper has never received a beatdown that bad while she has been here and we know her teams have played some teams that have been much more talented.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:27 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:33 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote:
loneycafe wrote: Other score to lift spirits: Tennessee manhandled UNC 102-57.
Wow! Harper has never received a beatdown that bad while she has been here and we know her teams have played some teams that have been much more talented.
A blowout against the heavyweights is SOP for UNC Women's basketball the last few years. Hatchell's teams almost always underperform when they need it the most. They shot only 9% from 3-pt land against Tennessee.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:33 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
I'll give you an example. Les Robinson was very likeable. I know he had some tough restrictions for a couple of years, but his recruiting strategy was just bad, and the results showed.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:47 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
I look at our roster and think "gosh, these ladies are really good." But that is not translating to wins. I don't think the problem is recruiting...although we aren't getting the top-ranked recruits. But Kay Yow didn't always get the best players either and our teams were still competitive. After the Stinson/Mapp/Manning group, NCState had trouble getting the most sought after players to come here. Didn't keep us from making national news.

We did see an uptick in recruiting after our 1998 Final Four run...and the 2000 class was one of the most highly ranked classes in the nation. But players left...gave up basketball...suffered injuries or other things...then, as Coach Yow's health declined, I suspect (and have heard this but have no confirmation) that at least one rival coach who wears powder blue used Yow's health status as a recruiting tool to get players to avoid NCState. Still, we had that magical run to the Sweet 16 in 2007, when we knocked off an undefeated Duke team in the ACC tournament and gave UCONN all they could handle out in Fresno.

Under Harper, the biggest deficiency is that players don't develop like they did with Yow and Glance at the helm. Those two women had a knack for getting the players they did get to play tenacious defense...raise their game to a higher level, overachieve and play as a team. We don't really see that under Harper...maybe because of the youth; we are a very young squad.

I feel really bad for Marissa Kastanek. Yow's last recruit, her college career is in serious jeopardy of ending with only one trip to the NCAA tournament. That young lady loves NCState and plays hard every game; she deserves better than she's getting here. And I'm afraid other players who may be considering coming to NCState may look at the state of the program, see that there's a limit to what can be achieved and decide to go elsewhere.

It pains me to say these things, because I love NCState women's basketball; as many of you know, I was a member of the Lady Pack Backers back in my college days and just hate that we are mired in this quagmire of ho-hum, 0.500 or thereabout seasons and really don't see the tide turning. This year's team should be playing better than they are. Kellie Harper needs to right the ship and pronto; don't just talk about teamwork...show the players how it's done.


Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:52 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 


Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."

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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:53 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Do we need to start discussing her buyout?

Man, what went wrong. A few years ago we were worried UT would grab her. How can someone so likebable be so bad at recruiting?
I'll give you an example. Les Robinson was very likeable. I know he had some tough restrictions for a couple of years, but his recruiting strategy was just bad, and the results showed.
MOC's another example, a heck of a nice guy when you'd meet him!
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:55 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
but wouldn't any NCSU coach have to deal with that? If that coach isn't do well they could claim they'll soon be fired & if they're doing well they could claim another school will soon hire that coach away from NCSU.

It's hard to believe that claim was the reason her 1st couple of years @ NCSU when she just got there.

Last edited 12/3/2012 1:56 PM by BlackRazor

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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:00 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
How do you know this?  WaffleIron?  I'm sorry, this doesn't hold much water.  She's been here long enough to get quality players.

"If you want the truth, ask me".

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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:03 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



BlackRazor wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
but wouldn't any NCSU coach have to deal with that? If that coach isn't do well they could claim they'll soon be fired & if they're doing well they could claim another school will soon hire that coach away from NCSU.

It's hard to believe that claim was the reason her 1st couple of years @ NCSU when she just got there.
I really don't know what she is like on the recruiting trail, but that's a tougher part of the business than game time because you can't see exactly what your opposition is doing. You just have to be prepared for anything. During interviews, I get the impression that Kellie might be too timid away from the court. As I have said before, this conference is loaded with barracudas, and anyone who swims in the waters better be ready to take them on.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:08 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



Bryanth1a wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
How do you know this?  WaffleIron?  I'm sorry, this doesn't hold much water.  She's been here long enough to get quality players.
I heard it from someone who would definitely know. You can believe it or not.

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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:10 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-4) 12/2 L to LSU 73-81 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: Part of it is because Harper has been negatively recruited against. "You may like Kellie but don't go to NC State because she isn't going to be there long."
but wouldn't any NCSU coach have to deal with that? If that coach isn't do well they could claim they'll soon be fired & if they're doing well they could claim another school will soon hire that coach away from NCSU.

It's hard to believe that claim was the reason her 1st couple of years @ NCSU when she just got there.
I really don't know what she is like on the recruiting trail, but that's a tougher part of the business than game time because you can't see exactly what your opposition is doing. You just have to be prepared for anything. During interviews, I get the impression that Kellie might be too timid away from the court. As I have said before, this conference is loaded with barracudas, and anyone who swims in the waters better be ready to take them on.
yeah I doubt NCSU's the only school that has negative recruiting tactics used against them. It just sounds like another excuse. I like DD's comment @ the PC yesterday saying he can't worry about what the last guy did - it wasn't in relation to recruiting but I'd imagine that would be his mindset in recruiting too.

He can't worry about what others say & do, he can only control what he's doing.
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