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RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU

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Posted: 11/29/2012 9:37 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


Yow wasn't at the game, or I didn't see her.

For the team, same issues as last season. I'm afraid they may not finish above .500. Might finish just above .500, but nowhere near well enough to earn a berth into the tourney.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 9:41 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-2) 11/29 Michigan State 7pm 



criticalproblems wrote: MSU coach might have been quite attractive when she was younger
I think Suzy Merchant is a very attractive woman. I like older women...especially since I'm an older man now!

Ya know what they say...just because there's a little snow on the roof doesn't mean there's not a fire in the furnace.                                                              




Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect. -- Margaret Mitchell.

Last edited 11/29/2012 9:46 PM by LETTERL

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Posted: 11/29/2012 10:05 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


What a disaster. We made a great run and then just went cold.

I have to say, if I were Kellie I'd be feeling like I'm on thin ice right now. She's been the definition of below average to mediocre for at least 2 years now.

"We want guys who will play like a Jet"  John Idzik, GM of the New York Jets

Locally responsive, Globally engaged.
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Posted: 11/29/2012 11:07 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


I think Harper is aware of the situation.

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Posted: 11/29/2012 11:12 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 8:37 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


GoPack.com story here.

“They boxed-out about as well as anyone I’ve seen since I’ve been here at NC State,” said head coach Kellie Harper. “They just would not let us get an offensive board. I thought their physicality really affected us early. They were really physical with our guards and it threw us off. We looked shell-shocked.”

“I asked the team what went wrong after the game and they were right on it. They knew.”
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:08 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:34 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
To be fair, his final hire just took the volleyball team to the NCAA's and had a historic season. Let's make sure to give Lee credit where credit is due...he turned us into a volleyball school. eek
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:50 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


This was a classic game of a team with good skills playing a team with not very good skills. We struggled to get off decent shots much like many games last season. We had no offensive flow, and general execution was just plain bad. Defense was spotty. The team expended a lot of energy fighting back in the first half and were gassed for the rest of the game. Another observation, in our previous games we were horrendous with turnovers. This time we only had 12 and still got beat by 17 points. The ACC teams will look at this film and take us to school in a heartbeat. This program is like a leaky tire. At some point it will cease to function if the problems aren't fixed.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:29 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:36 AM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


RT @chasitymelvin: Thankful to God this morning for my own personal angels they have a tough job I'm sure I wear them out at times. Its a beautiful day!
One hour ago


Chris Sullivan ‏ @ Chris__Sullivan

This is the part where u dig in, grit your teeth & work harder than u ever have b4. Fix the LITTLE things & BIG things will come our way!

Retweeted by L'Tona Lamonte

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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:39 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
I think even DY might have hired Harper.

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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:45 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



rexpack71 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
I think even DY might have hired Harper.
I think you are right, but I think she would have suggested some changes to the staff.  And she still may.  I hope.  I just really think she is a good coach and needs help from her staff from teaching the game and recruiting.  We seem to have a very low basketball IQ as a team.
Go Pack!!!!
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:49 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
BEING AN N C STATE FAN BUILDS GREAT CHARACTER
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:53 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



rexpack71 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
I think even DY might have hired Harper.

Nah, it was Jed.

North Carolina State introduces Kellie Harper as Kay Yow's successor - ESPN

Last edited 11/30/2012 10:54 AM by LiveWolvesinUnitards

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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:54 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



rexpack71 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
I think even DY might have hired Harper.
true & why these results have been so disappointing.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:56 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 11:02 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
I was tired of hearing during the Presidential campaign that Obama inherited Bush's economy when he took office.... ditto here (although KH did have that ACC run and went to NCAA's with the talent that she inherited). Just get it done!
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Posted: 11/30/2012 11:17 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



wolfest wrote:
rexpack71 wrote:
BlackRazor wrote:
LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote: Jed's legacy is fading fast now.
yeah, even what seemed like good hires @ the time don't appear to be turning out that way - looks like everything that man touched has turned to mud!
I think even DY might have hired Harper.
I think you are right, but I think she would have suggested some changes to the staff.  And she still may.  I hope.  I just really think she is a good coach and needs help from her staff from teaching the game and recruiting.  We seem to have a very low basketball IQ as a team.
I hope so too.

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Posted: 11/30/2012 11:26 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



seniorwolf60 wrote:
DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
KH inherited more talent for her first year than she has on the team now.  Hard to see this team being competitive at all in a couple of years with who she has recruited since taking the job.  Now adding ND, Syracuse and Louisville--Uh Oh...
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Posted: 11/30/2012 11:34 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



loneycafe wrote: GoPack.com story here.

“They boxed-out about as well as anyone I’ve seen since I’ve been here at NC State,” said head coach Kellie Harper. “They just would not let us get an offensive board. I thought their physicality really affected us early. They were really physical with our guards and it threw us off. We looked shell-shocked.”

“I asked the team what went wrong after the game and they were right on it. They knew.”
She's asking the team after the game what went wrong?  There's one of the problems with this program right there.  This isn't a @#$% Montessori school.  It's a basketball team.  The COACH is supposed to tell you what is wrong and make it right...

This program is a dumpster fire right now.  At this point, 4-12 in the ACC seems charitable (are women playing 18 game league schedule too?  If so, change that to 4-14)


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Last edited 11/30/2012 11:36 AM by 89Gradv2

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Posted: 11/30/2012 11:42 AM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


I've been hesitant to say much on a public forum that is critical of the team or of Harper, but I think there have been some comments made that have been unfair to the players who were on Harper's first team. 

Harper had a very experienced group of players her first year who saw themselves as a family and who played together. They fought for each other, and they stuck together. The more I have seen Harper's teams play these past two seasons, the more I think that veteran group of players deserve credit for Harper's first-season run. Harper's teams since then just haven't gelled, and much of that is a reflection of the coach. 

Also, Harper's offensive system has been atrocious the past three seasons, and I have seen no adjustments that she has made to improve it. We are seeing the exact same mistakes from last year this year. Yes, some of the players have improved under Harper. Barrett and Burke are better, and Gatling and Brown are nice additions. But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team. I think player management is part of the issue, as well as an offensive system that doesn't fit personnel. 

How truly aware is Harper of the issues, and how adaptable is she? I don't know, but the product we see on the floor, at this time, suggests not much. She's committed to her offensive system; she's stayed with her same recruiting pitch and approach; and she has stayed loyal to her coaching staff. 

I think this is do-or-die year for Harper. She won't get another year, especially when you will have a league (assuming the ACC doesn't fall apart) in a few years comprised of Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, and Louisville, who should all be perennial top 10 teams by then. Plus, FSU has bounced  back. Miami isn't falling off as much as people expected. And UVa will be back in the Top 25 under Boyle. And Georgia Tech will probably be, too.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.  I wanted Harper to be successful. We all did, of course, but if adjustments aren't made, I would understand why Yow makes a change after this season.

seniorwolf60 wrote: 
DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:06 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


If adjustments aren't made Harper needs to leave. I had hoped the scores we saw during the first few games were an indication that this year would be better offensively. It is not turning out to be the case.

Also, that group of Wolfpack Women who were here during Harper's first year will always have my respect. They could have easily sulked and not played to their potential when Glance was not hired.

Last edited 11/30/2012 12:12 PM by rexpack71

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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:21 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


A team only has to do three things to stop us.

1. Box out well to keep us off the boards.
2. Get back on defense to stop the fast break
3. Weather the few minutes we put on pressure defense.

MSU did all of these things. Then they were able to run their offense comfortably. We have no jump shooters and no one who can create a shot. There is no one this season who can shoot a jump shot as well as Bonae Holston, although she disappeared too often last year. Our offense still looks like a Chinese fire drill when we play a team with decent talent. Kellie is trying to coach the team into doing things they do not have the skills to do. Basically what we have is a Southern Conference coach who belongs in the Southern Conference.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:48 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



loneycafe wrote: I've been hesitant to say much on a public forum that is critical of the team or of Harper, but I think there have been some comments made that have been unfair to the players who were on Harper's first team. 

Harper had a very experienced group of players her first year who saw themselves as a family and who played together. They fought for each other, and they stuck together. The more I have seen Harper's teams play these past two seasons, the more I think that veteran group of players deserve credit for Harper's first-season run. Harper's teams since then just haven't gelled, and much of that is a reflection of the coach. 

Also, Harper's offensive system has been atrocious the past three seasons, and I have seen no adjustments that she has made to improve it. We are seeing the exact same mistakes from last year this year. Yes, some of the players have improved under Harper. Barrett and Burke are better, and Gatling and Brown are nice additions. But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team. I think player management is part of the issue, as well as an offensive system that doesn't fit personnel. 

How truly aware is Harper of the issues, and how adaptable is she? I don't know, but the product we see on the floor, at this time, suggests not much. She's committed to her offensive system; she's stayed with her same recruiting pitch and approach; and she has stayed loyal to her coaching staff. 

I think this is do-or-die year for Harper. She won't get another year, especially when you will have a league (assuming the ACC doesn't fall apart) in a few years comprised of Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, and Louisville, who should all be perennial top 10 teams by then. Plus, FSU has bounced  back. Miami isn't falling off as much as people expected. And UVa will be back in the Top 25 under Boyle. And Georgia Tech will probably be, too.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.  I wanted Harper to be successful. We all did, of course, but if adjustments aren't made, I would understand why Yow makes a change after this season.

seniorwolf60 wrote: 
DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
"But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team."

Maybe this was some evidence of that last night. Kastanek was open last night on the left side for a 3 pointer in the 2nd half. She was screaming louder than i have ever heard her to get the ball. Coleman had to have heard it but ignored her and took a 3 point shot while covered, straight back from the goal. She missed. That being said Kastanek missed some shots of her own last night.

FWIW the crowd that was there last night was into it. State did have a homecourt advantage as the crowd got pretty loud.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:59 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 




"But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team."

Maybe this was some evidence of that last night. Kastanek was open last night on the left side for a 3 pointer in the 2nd half. She was screaming louder than i have ever heard her to get the ball. Coleman had to have heard it but ignored her and took a 3 point shot while covered, straight back from the goal. She missed. That being said Kastanek missed some shots of her own last night.

FWIW the crowd that was there last night was into it. State did have a homecourt advantage as the crowd got pretty loud.
I noticed the same thing.  In fact, I think we had it down to 3 point deficit in the second half, when I thought the ball should have gone onto the block.  Our player had her defender on her hip, but Barrette (I think) did not get her the ball.  She tried to penetrate 3 times until she did some crazy shot that.  At that point, it seemed the air left the comeback and everyone went all for themselves.  As I was stated earlier, the the basketball IQ of this team is not really good.
Go Pack!!!!
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Posted: 11/30/2012 2:59 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



rexpack71 wrote: If adjustments aren't made Harper needs to leave. I had hoped the scores we saw during the first few games were an indication that this year would be better offensively. It is not turning out to be the case.

Also, that group of Wolfpack Women who were here during Harper's first year will always have my respect. They could have easily sulked and not played to their potential when Glance was not hired.
Will she be the next coach?

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Posted: 11/30/2012 3:49 PM

Re: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 



WolfpackSportsman wrote:
rexpack71 wrote: If adjustments aren't made Harper needs to leave. I had hoped the scores we saw during the first few games were an indication that this year would be better offensively. It is not turning out to be the case.

Also, that group of Wolfpack Women who were here during Harper's first year will always have my respect. They could have easily sulked and not played to their potential when Glance was not hired.
Will she be the next coach?
I don't think she would be willing to come back to State after she was passed over so blatantly--not that I thought they should have hired her.  If Kellie goes, DY must be ready to spend around $1M for the next coach, and it needs to be either a very top assistant at a prominent school, or a current Head Coach at a reasonably high level--i.e...not the SoCon.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 3:54 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


I know the exact play you are talking about.  Noticed the same thing. I thought it was telling. 
JesseBolt wrote:
loneycafe wrote: I've been hesitant to say much on a public forum that is critical of the team or of Harper, but I think there have been some comments made that have been unfair to the players who were on Harper's first team. 

Harper had a very experienced group of players her first year who saw themselves as a family and who played together. They fought for each other, and they stuck together. The more I have seen Harper's teams play these past two seasons, the more I think that veteran group of players deserve credit for Harper's first-season run. Harper's teams since then just haven't gelled, and much of that is a reflection of the coach. 

Also, Harper's offensive system has been atrocious the past three seasons, and I have seen no adjustments that she has made to improve it. We are seeing the exact same mistakes from last year this year. Yes, some of the players have improved under Harper. Barrett and Burke are better, and Gatling and Brown are nice additions. But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team. I think player management is part of the issue, as well as an offensive system that doesn't fit personnel. 

How truly aware is Harper of the issues, and how adaptable is she? I don't know, but the product we see on the floor, at this time, suggests not much. She's committed to her offensive system; she's stayed with her same recruiting pitch and approach; and she has stayed loyal to her coaching staff. 

I think this is do-or-die year for Harper. She won't get another year, especially when you will have a league (assuming the ACC doesn't fall apart) in a few years comprised of Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, and Louisville, who should all be perennial top 10 teams by then. Plus, FSU has bounced  back. Miami isn't falling off as much as people expected. And UVa will be back in the Top 25 under Boyle. And Georgia Tech will probably be, too.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.  I wanted Harper to be successful. We all did, of course, but if adjustments aren't made, I would understand why Yow makes a change after this season.

seniorwolf60 wrote: 
DrummerboyWolf wrote: The program was really down when Kellie took over.  She had that great run the first year in the ACC tournament but has struggled.  I still think she gets this year and next year because as I said the program was pretty much a dumpster fire when she took over.
And she has improved it how? If you want to see a real disaster, wait two years and try to play with the talent on the horizon.
"But the individual pieces aren't coming together and making a team."

Maybe this was some evidence of that last night. Kastanek was open last night on the left side for a 3 pointer in the 2nd half. She was screaming louder than i have ever heard her to get the ball. Coleman had to have heard it but ignored her and took a 3 point shot while covered, straight back from the goal. She missed. That being said Kastanek missed some shots of her own last night.

FWIW the crowd that was there last night was into it. State did have a homecourt advantage as the crowd got pretty loud.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 4:47 PM

RE: WBB 2012-13: (5-3) 12/2 @ LSU 


Here is the ACCWBBDigest.com's write up on the game: Spartans Overpower State

Ramifications: NC State is now 5-3 and was thoroughly outplayed at home in front of a good crowd (2,143). Quality wins will be needed to to preserve the Pack's NCAA Tournament hopes; this weekend's game at LSU will be pivotal in that quest

Last edited 11/30/2012 4:48 PM by loneycafe

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