wolfpackernc wrote:

crusherl wrote: So did I hear right that Fehr wasn't present the last couple days while everything was going good and then he showed back up tonight and it all went to hell?

Fehr and Bettman were both out the last two days.

Yea but Bettman stayed out today.

crusherl wrote:

wolfpackernc wrote:

crusherl wrote: So did I hear right that Fehr wasn't present the last couple days while everything was going good and then he showed back up tonight and it all went to hell?

Fehr and Bettman were both out the last two days.

Yea but Bettman stayed out today.

They are both, depending on your point of view, terrible or fantastic negotiators because they are ridiculously stubborn and do whatever it takes to get the best deal for their side.  Unfortunately, the fans don't have a negotiator and get stuck waiting for each of these two jackasses to give an inch if and only if the other side gives a foot.

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--- crusherl wrote:

So did I hear right that Fehr wasn't present the last couple days while everything was going good and then he showed back up tonight and it all went to hell?

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Bettman suggested that just the owners and players be at the table for a few sessions. PA gave in, so he and Fehr weren't there Tuesday and Wednesday. Supposedly the Pittsburgh connection of Burkle (Mario's money backer) and Crosby were able to get a bunch done.

Listening to Bettman's and Daly's presser now and they are pissed. Everything is off the table that they gave this week. Claim that "make whole" was the sticking point for PA prior, the NHL came up to them ($300 million) and the players acted ho-hum about it. That is what sent some of the owners into a frenzy that was reported on yesterday. Supposedly Ryan Miller and the Bruins owner went at it in discussions. Now the pension is what the PA is bitching about according to those two. Daly flat out said that the owners will die defending the hill of contract terms. Basically 5-yr contracts for FA's and 7-yrs to re-up with current team. Similar to NBA.

I do have to laugh at the differences in the press conferences. Fehr had me fooled.

It's CBA negotiations, so who knows the next step, but right now your and my fear of Donald Fehr being the head of the PA may be coming to fruition.

It is becoming comical how the players and Bettman live in their Canadian bubbles and think everything will be alright when they finally reach a deal. Sorry to say, but they are losing a TON of fans and I don't think they even know it.

how anybody blames any of this on the players is beyond me. the players aren't demanding anything. in fact, they are getting nothing out of this lockout. and don't even call it a "negotiation." all it is is the owners making the demands and refusing to let the season go on until they get everything they want...just as they did in the last lockout, which cost the entire season....just like this one will. and don't forget: the owners have yet to make the case that any of this is necessary, especially with revenues way up since the last lockout.

read this:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/hypocritica l_owners_face_players_wfqBjGiPOpQSdoChQaykLJ

Teams are losing money. Teams want to change some aspects of the old system (back loading long-term contracts). You want to tell me that the players in the #4 professional league in the US should get a larger percentage of the pie over players in the #1 league, the NFL? No way that should be the case. The total revenue between the two is laughable. PA knew they were going to take a hit in these negotiations after the recent NFL and NBA CBA deals. Question was, how big of a hit? No one knows the possible grand plan of Fehr. He better have a plan B and knowing him that may be to make the NHL system similar to MLB. If Fehr's plan is to go down that road, then fansince55's contraction prediction, may actually be the case. Hell, it could be half the league, as I don't think many in the NHL could exist in that system. That's a great deal of speculation, but we'll see.

Btw, I was wrong on the Miller vs Jacobs interaction over "make whole". That must have been over something else. Dregger reported on TSN that it was Pittsburgh's Burkle and Toronto's Tannenbaum that were extremely upset with the PA's response to getting up to $300 million.

ETA - From following Larry Brooks through the last lockout and this lockout, he has been in bed with the union the whole time. His articles are slanted in one direction, for the PA.

bppack wrote: how anybody blames any of this on the players is beyond me. the players aren't demanding anything. in fact, they are getting nothing out of this lockout. and don't even call it a "negotiation." all it is is the owners making the demands and refusing to let the season go on until they get everything they want...just as they did in the last lockout, which cost the entire season....just like this one will. and don't forget: the owners have yet to make the case that any of this is necessary, especially with revenues way up since the last lockout.

read this:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/hypocritica l_owners_face_players_wfqBjGiPOpQSdoChQaykLJ

That's because under the current rules that owners HAD to offer contracts like this to get guys to stay or sign with them because if they didn't the whole free agent signing was a mystery to them with how one team would be getting ready to sign a player and some other team would make a last minute offer with some of fthe wall structure to the deals. The owners are basically taking a stance saying they want to be able to control the signings more now so it isn't a big mystery and a huge game.

One word I didn't see included in Brooks article linked above is collusion. A word that made Donald Fehr and his MLBPA members a great deal of money. That's why the owners will defend contract limits to death in this CBA according to Bill Daly. They won't get suckered in like the MLB owners did.

What a presser! Whether you side with the owners or players Bettman can put on a good show. Seems like the PA is gonna crumble or have to do something rather drastic to gain some traction back.

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip822014

The contrast between the two was amazing. Fehr's calm, presents a statement that they've agreed in principle on the dollars and that everything else is very close. Bettman is frothing at the mouth, veins popping out and is taking things off the table. All in negotiations, I guess. Still think there will be a season.

Not sure why these are sticking points for the PA:

- 88% of current NHL player contracts are of 5-years or less (Who is typically benefiting from these long-term deals?)

- 10-year CBA deal signed by the NFL and NBA (Good for them, why not the NHL? Brings about stability for all involved.)

maybe the last attempt for 2012-13 hockey season
(no matter what Gale Force Holdings will still operate PNC Arena)

www.wralsportsfan.com/nhl-make...stage/11922682/

Deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Friday the league presented its proposal Thursday and was waiting for a response. The sides haven't met in person since a second round of talks with a federal mediator broke down Dec. 13.

The lockout has reached its 104th day, and the NHL said it doesn't want a season of less than 48 games. That means a deal would need to be reached mid-January.

I heard something that Fehr is basically waiting for a "complete" deal to give to the players before having them vote on it which could be causing a delay. It sounded like when he and Bettman weren't in the room one day, the players and owners worked out individual parts of the new CBA and that's what should've been occurring. Work out point A, let the players vote on it and in the mean time work on point B and so on. Instead they don't know where the majority of the players stand on most of the ideas.

Lots of chatter out there that a resolution is in sight.


Arena personal have been asked to prepare for a season and players are being asked to return from over seas - least thats what I am hearing in the tweetersphere and on some hockey specific message boards.

-- I may watch but they are not getting a dollar in revenue from me this season.

i've heard too many times that the end is in sight to get excited about the latest developments.

In the NHL's last offer -- submitted Thursday evening -- the league indicated the season would need to start on Jan. 19. For that to happen -- and to allow teams to hold a one-week training camp beforehand -- a deal would need to be reached by Jan. 11.

espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/879...es-talk-tuesday

If our elected knuckleheads in DC can come an agreement I guess the NHL and Player's Association should be able to figure it out. Of course the owners have asked for too much from the get go!

Tonight's meeting could be meaningful.

Once they come back, the Canes will not have Ruutu till May. Underwent hip surgery recently. I guess this is a recent injury.

espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/880...-surgery-source

Most important aspects of the deal to me are the length (10-yrs, 8-yr opt out), two amnesty buyouts (teams can erase two bad contracts off their salary cap books) and the new lottery system. Ten years means labor peace for a substantial time. Can't think of any long-term bad contracts for the Canes off the top of my head. Don't think we have any, but that will help some teams. Miss the playoffs, have a chance to get the #1 pick. No more only move up 4 spots from your position.

www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412844

- The players' share of hockey-related revenue will drop from 57 percent to a 50-50 split for all 10 years.  

- The league coming off their demand for a $60 million cap in Year 2, meeting the NHLPA's request to have it at $64.3 million - which was the upper limit from last year's cap. The salary floor in Year 2 will be $44 million.

- The upper limit on the salary cap in the first year is $60 million, but teams can spend up to $70.2 million (all pro-rated). The cap floor will be $44 million.

- The 10-year deal also has an opt-out clause that kicks in after eight years.

- Each team will be allowed two amnesty buyouts that can be used to terminate contracts after this season and next season. The buyouts will count against the players' overall share in revenues, but not the team's salary cap.

- The salary variance on contracts from year to year cannot vary more than 35 per cent and the final year cannot vary more than 50 per cent of the highest year.

- A player contract term limit for free agents will be seven years and eight years for a team signing its own player.

- The draft lottery selection process will change with all 14 teams fully eligible for the first overall pick. The weighting system for each team may remain, but four-spot move restriction will be eliminated.

- Supplemental discipline for players in on-ice incidents will go through NHL disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan first, followed by an appeal process that would go through Bettman. For suspensions of six or more games, a neutral third party will decide if necessary.

- Revenue sharing among teams will spread to $200 million. Additionally, an NHLPA-initiated growth fund of $60 million is included.

- Teams can only walk away from a player in salary arbitration if the award is at least $3.5 million.

- The NHL had hoped to change opening of free agency to July 10, but the players stood firm and it remains July 1 in the new agreement. But with a later ending to the season, free agency for this summer will start at a later date.

Also, a decision on NHL participation at the 2014 Olympic Winter Games will be made outside of the new CBA. While it is likely that the league will participate, the IIHF and IOC will have discussions with the NHL and Players' Association.

Very good......I was starting to not miss it.

Wonder when they'll release the schedule.

Supposedly between 48 to 52-game schedule. Would think it will be strictly within conference. No idea when it will be announced. A bunch of stuff will need to be finalized in a short time. Free agents are still out there, trades that may occur, etc... Will be a hectic period.

Winners and losers of lockout by Kevin Allen (USA Today):

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/...+-+Top+Stories)

To be determined: Smaller markets. The seven-year cap on individual contracts, and the 35% year-to-year variance limit on contracts, will make it more difficult for big-market teams to bully them economically as the Philadelphia Flyers did to the Nashville Predators last summer on Shea Weber. Increased team revenue sharing will help. The reduction of the salary cap helps those with smaller revenue streams. Still, they were expecting more of a boost than they received. The NHL's original demands on contract lengths, variances, etc., would have been a greater help.

JaegerWolf wrote: Wonder when they'll release the schedule.

at 1pm there was the old schedule for January at CarolinaHurricanes.com
now the schedule for January is blank
and the 2012-13 schedule pulldown is blank

Report: 48-game season to start Jan. 19
www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye...to-start-jan-19

The NHL has kept their schedule makers busy running tentative schedules for the last couple of weeks. I'm hearing they'll have preliminary schedules out for comment to the teams by the middle of the week.

Leafs GM, Brian Burke, fired today. Entering 5th yr of 6-yr deal. How do you fire the GM 10 days before the season starts in a shortened season? Unbelievable. New ownership, but why now? The beat continues in Toronto. Obviously Burke is very opinionated. Guess he pissed off the wrong person recently.

wrcwolf wrote: Leafs GM, Brian Burke, fired today. Entering 5th yr of 6-yr deal. How do you fire the GM 10 days before the season starts in a shortened season? Unbelievable. New ownership, but why now? The beat continues in Toronto. Obviously Burke is very opinionated. Guess he pissed off the wrong person recently.

Indeed, that's very strange timing.

Wonder if this impacts the Luongo-to-Toronto rumors one way or the other.

Could be. Not sure Burke wants Luongo and he for sure doesn't like long-term contracts like the one Luongo has. Maybe ownership told him to make the deal and Burke told them FU.

wrcwolf wrote: Could be. Not sure Burke wants Luongo and he for sure doesn't like long-term contracts like the one Luongo has. Maybe ownership told him to make the deal and Burke told them FU.

As a Canadian who watched Luongo in goal as we won the Olympic gold.....I wouldn't want Luongo either.

Agree, factor in that he supposedly wants to be in Florida, if possible, the long-term deal and to me, Luongo in Toronto has a chance to be a disaster. He likely improves the position and may make the Leafs a playoff contender this year, but not sure it's a good deal long-term.

Remember, new ownership is the TV giants in Canada. Adding Luongo does create more buzz and interest. Not that the Leafs need to create interest in their club, but it would help to some degree.

Replaced him with Nonis. Nonis brought Luongo to Vancouver and gave him his contract.

Neil Greenberg at ESPN has the 'Canes as a breakout pick.  Says the could be the favorite in the Southeast.  

1. Carolina Hurricanes

Why Carolina: After finishing last in the "Southleast" Division with just 82 points and a minus-30 goal differential, the Hurricanes made a big splash in the offseason by acquiring former Pittsburgh Penguins center Jordan Staal via trade and signing Alexander Semin, the Washington Capitals' former 40-goal winger, to a one-year, $7 million contract. Staal will give Carolina's skill players more chances in the offensive zone by taking on the tougher opponent assignments, and Semin gives them not only the dynamic scorer (in theory) they need but also a skater who drives puck possession during even-strength play. By uniting Staal with his brother Eric and adding Semin to Jeff Skinner's line, the Canes have a foundation for their top-six that can make Carolina the favorite to win the Southeast.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl...-breakout-teams



Note:  This is an Insider story, but this part is on the free section.

302ASullivan wrote: Neil Greenberg at ESPN has the 'Canes as a breakout pick.  Says the could be the favorite in the Southeast.  

1. Carolina Hurricanes

Why Carolina: After finishing last in the "Southleast" Division with just 82 points and a minus-30 goal differential, the Hurricanes made a big splash in the offseason by acquiring former Pittsburgh Penguins center Jordan Staal via trade and signing Alexander Semin, the Washington Capitals' former 40-goal winger, to a one-year, $7 million contract. Staal will give Carolina's skill players more chances in the offensive zone by taking on the tougher opponent assignments, and Semin gives them not only the dynamic scorer (in theory) they need but also a skater who drives puck possession during even-strength play. By uniting Staal with his brother Eric and adding Semin to Jeff Skinner's line, the Canes have a foundation for their top-six that can make Carolina the favorite to win the Southeast.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl...-breakout-teams



Note:  This is an Insider story, but this part is on the free section.

Interesting poll results on TSN. Totally meaningless, I know, but I thought the overwhelming sentiment that we would be a playoff team among what should be knowledgeable hockey fans was pretty surprising.

^ I may or may not have voted there....

However, I'm thinking of the 1724 votes, 1500 are from 'Canes fans because I don't see a huge push to read a 'Canes preview in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.

I think the shortened season certainly helps the Hurricanes. It seems their best players, Staal, Ward lose focus a bit during a 82 game season but always perform well in a short season/playoff format. Add Jordan and Semin and we should be good to go. Sucks that Skinner didn't play in the off-season though.

Semin has played like crap in the KHL this season and is reported to be out of shape even now ... halfway through their season. Expecting anything special out of him in a Canes uniform is fool's gold.

Carolina's defense is so shockingly God-awful that they'll have to score 4 to 5 goals a game to win enough to make the playoffs. J Staal helps, but losing Ruutu makes up for that gain. Semin could be the absolute key to the season ... and he's been coasting aroind the KHL for three months. Color me pessimistic.

I thought Ruutu is still here.  He's showing up on the roster.

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

livewolves wrote: Semin has played like crap in the KHL this season and is reported to be out of shape even now ... halfway through their season. Expecting anything special out of him in a Canes uniform is fool's gold.

Carolina's defense is so shockingly God-awful that they'll have to score 4 to 5 goals a game to win enough to make the playoffs. J Staal helps, but losing Ruutu makes up for that gain. Semin could be the absolute key to the season ... and he's been coasting aroind the KHL for three months. Color me pessimistic.

Ruutu is out for the season with a hip injury

Gotcha, I had not seen that.  Thanks.

asandras wrote: Ruutu is out for the season with a hip injury

Where on earth are you getting KHL Alexander Semin scouting reports from?

ETA: I see the story I presume you are referring to....from November, after 8 games in the KHL.

Did I hear right that Rutherford mentioned the need to raise ticket prices in today's "We're back" press conference? Please tell me he isn't that stupid. I don't care if it is true, you don't say that in your first press conference after leaving the fans out in the cold for 3 months.

I am ready for this season to start. I think we will be strong this year.

We will miss Ruutu. That will probably keep the Staal brothers from being on the same line. I see E Staal/Semin and J Staal/Skinner anchoring the top 2 lines.