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RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
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Posted: 10/19/2012 7:40 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
crusherl wrote: The players came back with 3 proposals yesterday basically telling the league to screw itself. The players need to realize that hockey is not football. If they lose an entire season they have lost most of their fanbase. |
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Posted: 10/19/2012 7:46 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
crusherl wrote: The players came back with 3 proposals yesterday basically telling the league to screw itself. Fehr has the big boys toeing the line, and saying what he wants them to say. He's promising them untold millions. The "normal" player is going to get screwed, and some will never play in the NHL if the season is lost, and that is where it's heading. Well, losing a season is what they wanted when they hired Fehr, they may just have got what they wanted. ________________________________________________________
"I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them." - Andy Bernard
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Posted: 10/19/2012 8:28 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Is anyone surprised with Fehr at the helm that the players did not accept the offer or even try to negotiate on that offer?
Fehr actually has jumped past Bettman, which is amazing, as the bad guy at this point. I say that and I am no fan of Bettman.
My only saving grace for hockey is that I have a Division I program that I get to watch.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 8:55 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
the owners' offer was an attempt to win back public opinion. nothing more. and it wasn't a 50/50 offer. the idea that you can negotiate a contract with someone, then come back and demand you give back some of the money you agreed to pay them is ridiculous.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 9:02 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
bppack wrote: the owners' offer was an attempt to win back public opinion. nothing more. and it wasn't a 50/50 offer. the idea that you can negotiate a contract with someone, then come back and demand you give back some of the money you agreed to pay them is ridiculous. In the end they get paid a ridiculous amount of money to play a freaking game...they need to work out a deal or risk losing fans...this whole argument of who gets more in the revenue split is null in my opinion because in the end both sides walk away with more than enough money to live off of. Get this handled and get back to hockey. |
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Posted: 10/19/2012 9:26 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote: The Edmonton saga continues. Looks as if the next move is up to Katz.
1) give in to what the city is willing to spend, build and subsidize.
2) continue to hold out for what he wants.
3) talk to other markets (Seattle) and get closer to what he wants there.
4) sell team.
No indication that he's looking to sell, so #4 doesn't seem like a possibility.
www.edmontonjournal.com/busine...5902/story.html
City council has voted to cease negotiations with the Katz Group on a downtown arena and will explore the possibility of building an arena themselves.
“Enough is enough,” said Coun. Dave Loken, whose motion to cease negotiations passed unanimously on Wednesday. “We’re going nowhere with these negotiations.”
Mayor Stephen Mandel said that nothing justifies giving the Katz Group another $6 million a year in an operating subsidy.
Katz’s demands for an ongoing annual subsidy, for an anchor tenant for the office tower and additional financing for the Winter Garden have not been resolved and are critical, said Simon Farbrother, city manager.
Mandel had insisted that someone from the Katz Group show up to outline the company’s concerns but Daryl Katz sent a letter Tuesday saying that would not happen.
“Perhaps with more time and political leadership, this project can still be saved,” Katz wrote, adding there are 15 items still to be resolved. Who ever thought that another Oilers owner would be more hated than Peter Pocklington? Katz let the product on the ice languish to stockpile high picks, and now that the fruit of that strategy is blossoming (3 straight #1 overall picks - Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, and Yakupov), he's playing chicken with the city about moving? Yeah - I'm sure the Oilers fans are just loving this guy. He made a huge offer to buy the team from the local investors group that had rescued the Oilers from Pocklington (think he had to make 3 successively higher offers to get them to sell) with the promise of rebuilding the Oilers and getting the new arena done. Now he's basically strong-arming the city into giving him an even better arena deal by running off to Seattle. I know that's how owners are, but it's a shame, since the local investors group seemed to be the perfect ownership situation for Edmonton. |
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Posted: 10/19/2012 12:53 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Yeah, Katz has the chance to surpass Pocklington as being most hated in Edmonton. We'll see what road he chooses to follow.
Of the three proposals by the PA, only the third has any chance of being negotiated. Again, once the NFL and NBA were able to go directly to a 50/50 split, the writing was on the wall with the NHL. There will be no stepping down to that level over a few years.
As far as Fehr goes, I have the same opinion of him as it seems many on here do. For the superstar players, he is what they needed. Guess that's why the PA hired him. It was no coincidence that those behind him on the stage yesterday were Crosby, Toews, Staal, etc... The stars of the league are running the PA. Until the majority, not the stars, take control of the PA, it's not looking good, IMO.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 1:16 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Fehr is the first proper professional they've ever had running the NHLPA. They hired him in the wake of their 2nd leadership meltdown inside of five years. I seriously don't think he was selected with this negotiation in mind, rather as a response to the parade of idiots they've had in charge.
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Posted: 10/24/2012 11:02 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
As expected, NHL will only work off of their proposal from here on out. PA wants to meet, but doesn't necessarily want to work with the NHL proposal. 50/50 is here, making the existing contracts work within that system is what we are down to. Well, Wang and the Islanders found their home. No sleep till Brooklyn and the Barclays Center come 2015. News conference set for 1:00. No idea on terms yet, but Bob Mckenzie is reporting it's a long-term lease. If that is indeed the case, tough day for Nassau County and Long Island as a whole. Barclays Center not built for hockey, may have to have plans to reconstruct it before the Nets play their first regular season game. Do they change their name if it's permanent? Go to the LA Kings (current Nets) black & white color scheme? online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...wsj_share_tweet |
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Posted: 10/24/2012 11:09 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
I've given up hope of a whole season at this point. Both sides are just too stupid. I can't believe the NFL can figure out how to split up all their money with the players when there is no risk their sport won't come back but the idiot NHL owners and players continue to fire bullets into their own feet with every labor stoppage.
Last edited 10/24/2012 11:10 AM by wolfpackernc
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Posted: 10/24/2012 11:23 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
The NFLPA is even weaker than the NHLPA. Owners have had their way with them through the years. Really the only sports union with power to get many things their way, imo, is the MLBPA. Think of it this way, the two World Series participants, Giants and Tigers, have the same player payroll ($118 to $130 million) as most NFL teams. That's with half the amount of players.
This week is important, but for some reason I think the two sides will get a deal done come Thanksgiving. Think the PA will cave and the NHL will give in on some issues (not 50/50) to make it worthwhile for the PA. Maybe just hopeful wishing. Reduced season of about 60-70 games to start 2nd week of December or around Christmas.
Last edited 10/24/2012 12:10 PM by wrcwolf
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Posted: 10/24/2012 1:36 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
25-year lease for the Isle at the Barclays Center. Permanent move. Tough day for Long Island, huge day for Brooklyn. Guess it could have been worse for Islanders fans, they can still easily drive, ride train to see their favorite team, although it will be less convenient. Brooklyn goes from zero pro teams to two in a short time.
Isles will keep name and logo. Good to hear.
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Posted: 10/24/2012 1:44 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
If the Barclays Center has lights, that will be an improvement over the Nassau County arena.
My God, it was hard to watch a game on TV from that place. Looked like it was something from the 70's....and I guess it was in a way.
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Posted: 10/24/2012 1:47 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote:
Isles will keep name and logo. Good to hear. This is not what I'm hearing. 
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Posted: 10/24/2012 1:48 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote:
This week is important, but for some reason I think the two sides will get a deal done come Thanksgiving. Think the PA will cave and the NHL will give in on some issues (not 50/50) to make it worthwhile for the PA. Maybe just hopeful wishing. Reduced season of about 60-70 games to start 2nd week of December or around Christmas. Yeah ... I'm thinking the same way. There's going to be real pressure to salvage the Holiday season and the Winter Classic. I think the early November deadlines will give way to late November deadlines. If they don't get it done by Thanksgiving, I'm throwing in the towel on this pack of morons.
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Posted: 10/24/2012 1:59 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
psupack wrote:
wrcwolf wrote:
Isles will keep name and logo. Good to hear. This is not what I'm hearing.
LOLOLOLOL Nice work reviving the Gordon's Fisherman logo debacle. |
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Posted: 10/24/2012 2:53 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Screw those guys .......... the only money I'll be spending at the arena any time soon will be on Wolfpack Basketball.
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Posted: 10/24/2012 4:02 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Hockey's going down a dangerous road.
________________________________________________________
"I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them." - Andy Bernard
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Posted: 10/30/2012 12:42 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Strike must be going bad if this has fallen to page 4. On a Hurricane's related note, my son thinks now he wants to be a hockey player for Halloween. I told him he should just wear sweatpants and a sweatshirt, but he didn't get it. Anyway, he was looking for red hockey pants and a Hurricane's toboggan. Where's a good place around here for that, seeing as the season is in limbo and all?
________________________________________________________
"I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them." - Andy Bernard
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Posted: 11/5/2012 3:05 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Supposedly the NHL is agreeing to some sort of "make whole" proposal with existing contracts while getting to 50/50 and the PA is listening. Talks this past weekend were long, behind closed doors and very little leaks between the #2's of each side. That's usually how these things get done. We'll see, but I'm feeling hopeful again. www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/s...the-offing.htmlI’ll be bold here and say it means a deal is inevitable. One can only believe that a marathon session (with several breaks) means that Daly and Fehr had something to talk about and they were clearly checking compass directions with other key players. More than that, there obviously is reason to return to the table. They would not be doing this merely to restate positions already well known to each other. This is how negotiations usually work. Small meetings, off the record and out of the public’s glare, allow real discussion to take place and real solutions to be canvassed. Sure, a lot can go wrong from here. The devil is always in the details, and there are dozens and dozens of details. However, when an agreement is emerging on the big-ticket items, there is a much greater willingness to deal/compromise on less divisive issues. No one wants to see an apparent deal blown up by provisions that can clearly be resolved with a bit of compromise. |
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Posted: 11/5/2012 3:10 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
^ I tend to agree, wrc. This "quiet" return to the table and the lengthy session has given me renewed hope. Guess the owners were surprised when no one even noticed they cancelled the Winter Classic.
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Posted: 11/5/2012 4:08 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
You guys are giving me hope. I'd love to see some hockey this year....
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Posted: 11/5/2012 4:12 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
It'll end up being a 60 game schedule like the NBA did last year.
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Posted: 11/5/2012 4:22 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
November 22nd - D day on the season happening or not
-- I don't really care anymore
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Posted: 11/5/2012 4:26 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Not sure if it's possible to redo the schedules on short notice, but read somewhere over the weekend that playing the same amount of games within the conference could work with the shortened schedule. Canes wouldn't play a team from the Western Conference until the SC Finals. :) Marty Biron talks before the meetings: espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id...as-talks-resume"I think every time there is a layoff where there’s no talks and then talks resume, there’s always optimism in the air,” New York Rangers goalie Martin Biron, a member of the NHLPA’s negotiating committee, told ESPN.com on Monday. "Obviously, everybody is cautiously optimistic with some of the exchanges that Steve and Bill had, even though it was more brainstorming than anything concrete. But to be able to schedule some meetings and get larger groups involved again is going to be a good thing. Still, as with every case in the last little while when people got too optimistic, it’s just part of the process and we’ll see where it goes." Fact is, this thing can still go all kinds of directions; it’s still in a very, very delicate state. It might produce more progress and lead to consecutive days of bargaining and ultimately a new CBA, but the two sides could just as easily clash again on key issues and the whole thing goes sideways.
Last edited 11/5/2012 4:41 PM by wrcwolf
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Posted: 11/5/2012 4:40 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote: Not sure if it's possible to redo the schedules on short notice, but read somewhere over the weekend that playing the same amount of games within the conference could work with the shortened schedule. Canes wouldn't play a team from the Western Conference until the SC Finals. :) I understand that the league office has run schedules to fit several scenarios already. A conference only schedule that starts around December 1 was surely an option in that mix.
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Posted: 11/9/2012 12:27 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Fehr's most recent memo to the players. If it ever comes to light who the leak was, his existence in the league may not be for long from both sides. Of course, it could have been a PA executive(s) responsible for the leak. Looks as if they are not close to a resolution at the moment. Still talking, which is good. Who gives in or not? prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/20...ork-to-be-done/ |
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Posted: 11/9/2012 12:45 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
One thing I don't understand about the player's stance on contract rules like "5 years max" and "only 5% variation year-to-year" is that, with a salary cap in place, it ensures that the players as a whole will get their money. Those rules just impact individual players who might get hurt by them.
Jordan Staal might have had to sign a 5 year deal worth $30 mil instead of a 10 year deal worth $60 mil. But the money "lost" by not getting a longer contract still ends up in the hands of the players, be it Staal in a deal signed 5 years from now or another player at that time. It is a zero-sum game, what is the big objection? (I generally know the objection - the big name players control the union. But I still don't like it or know why the rank and file - who are hurt by the long term deals - go along with it.)
Last edited 11/9/2012 12:45 PM by wolfpackernc
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Posted: 11/9/2012 1:02 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Agree. Guess it's more of a looking out for yourself approach, which is typically the case in any labor negotiation. If I can get 10, 12-years in my prime, why would I limit that? On average most will not have the numbers 5-years after their prime to get the same yearly salary. As you mention, it will go to someone younger in their prime instead. And we all know the owners can't control themselves when it comes to length of a contract, if it gets them the prize FA. Even if they did, would that not result in a collusion penalty if the owners somehow work behind the scenes to limit length of contracts without that language in the CBA? I would think so.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 1:29 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
NHL asked and it seems the PA came through with a proposal of their own. From the sounds of it, it appears to be close enough to the NHL's last proposal that one would think the two sides should be able to get a deal done. If I understand correctly, higher "make-whole", but not significant, no limits in individual contracts and length of deal (5 yrs) are factors that the NHL will have to bend a bit.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:05 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Fehr says the PA agrees in principle on dollars.
May have the NHL back for Christmas.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:12 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote: Fehr says the PA agrees in principle on dollars.
May have the NHL back for Christmas. good just in time to not move the December 31 basketball game at the same time as the bowl game, since there is Hurricane hockey at home that night. 
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:16 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote: Fehr says the PA agrees in principle on dollars.
May have the NHL back for Christmas. Very different picture than ESPN is presenting. Make it sound like talks broke down quickly today. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:17 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wolfpackernc wrote:
wrcwolf wrote: Fehr says the PA agrees in principle on dollars.
May have the NHL back for Christmas. Very different picture than ESPN is presenting. Make it sound like talks broke down quickly today. interesting espn does not carry hockey, so are they spreading information to anger fans?
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:21 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Oh, it could be a PR ploy by Fehr. Listened to the full presser. Indications I got was that the ball is now in the NHL's court. He did say the PA agrees in principle on the dollars. Daly went back to NHL offices. We'll found out soon the NHL's view.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:26 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
The NHL already told them the deal wasn't good enough.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:31 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Yep, there ya go. That was quick. Fehr put the blame back on the NHL.
Arguement now for the PA centers around length of the CBA (NHL wants 8 years) and length of contracts. NHL came up to $300 million on the make whole, so in essence the PA will be getting around 53% of the revenue the first year.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:54 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
So did I hear right that Fehr wasn't present the last couple days while everything was going good and then he showed back up tonight and it all went to hell?
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Posted: 12/6/2012 8:03 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
crusherl wrote: So did I hear right that Fehr wasn't present the last couple days while everything was going good and then he showed back up tonight and it all went to hell? Fehr and Bettman were both out the last two days. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 8:08 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Everyone is blaming Bettman but Fehr is the monkey in the wrench.
At this point - even if they reach an agreement you are looking at a three month season. The playoffs will last almost that.
Flush it ............ take the year to figure it out for a 10 year CBA and hope and pray any one still cares.
Personally I'd like to see Raleigh with an AHL team at this point ........... just brand it the Ice Caps so I can break out my ancient black and blue Ice Caps jersey
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