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Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
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Posted: 9/19/2012 12:52 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wolfpack1437 wrote:
HollySpringsWolf wrote:
wolfpack1437 wrote: Again, it doesn't matter whether anyone believes me or not, but it's the truth. Goodmon and his group bought into the team in hopes of it succeeding in the future, and because they think it is good for our local economy and therefore good for their own local businesses.
What is hard to get? You simply can't sustain a business that consistently loses money. They only made money the cup year and not much of it. Compare that year to the losses of the other 15 and how is it not a huge money dump? How much money do you think the new investor group is making? None, and they won't make ANY unless the Canes can make good playoff runs for around 6 of the next 8 years.
People who work there know the truth. Many can pull up profit reports on their personal desktops and know what the profits need to be each game and each year and in every department----- to even sniff breaking even. Reports in the paper about profitability are laughed at openly in departmental meetings-------as all know it's a sham because they see the numbers every single day. Many of their employees speak openly with friends about the poor financial shape of the org, joke about PK getting to dump half his losses onto local investors while still running HIS team, and most all of the employees worry day to day about getting laid off once the new investors realize how big of a money pit they have gotten into.
Anyway, this is a Pack board so I am going to leave the discussion of the Canes for those who want to discuss the game and players. I come here for Pack sports. Just thought people might be interested to know that the situation within the RBC walls has been anything but "peachy" over the years, and it has just gotten a lot worse with the lack of recent playoff runs and now with the lockout. Something that many friends of mine live with daily------and have lived with for years. Many have families to support and wish that the org was more vocal about its scary financial condition so people were motivated to spend more to support the team and keep them in Raleigh. However, JR and PK are too proud to admit that they are struggling ........primarily because they have been very outspoken in the past against those who said hockey wouldn't succeed in NC. This may very well be true, but I don't feel bad for PK in the least. The Hurricanes may be one of the poorest run franchises hockey wise on top of being one of the worst managed franchises period.
Jim Rutherford's record of failure should have him FIRED. There's no disputing this guy is terrible. The Cup victory is looking more and more like a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut.
Signing freakin' SEMIN to a SEVEN MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT? Thank God it's only one year...
Paul Maurice should have never been brought back for a second stint.
The television and radio deals in the beginning were beyond pathetic. The fact that THIS would have been the FIRST year that every game would be televised is proof to that.
PK left Hartford for NC thinking the notheastern transplants would flock to his team. He forgets something...hockey fans are loyal to their teams...NOT to a relocated franchise. You don't alienate future customers who might become secondary 'Canes fans by treating Boston, New York, Philadelphia, etc., fans horribly in your first season.
You don't "forget" to offer mini-season plans in your first season.
They've been in Raleigh now for 10 or so years, and they've only now marketed a weekend plan for people in other parts of the state? Marketing and branding should not amount to a man-bear-pig like mascot, the "Storm Squad", in-game promotions that cater to 10 year olds, and very little in the way of advertising the games.
You don't overvalue ticket prices in your first season. Then, after you finally get someone who knows something about customer service/retention (Jim Cain), you totally forget what he was all about, and you re-jack prices to beyond a comprable seat in friggin' Madison Square Garden.
The customer service was below par when I was a STH 2001-06. Outside of a few OUTSTANDING people in their offices, the overall service from them rates a D-.
I get the fact there's very little corporate support, and really, where the heck did PK THINK the corporate support was going to come from when he moved here? RTP? Those are NOT North Carolina born and bred companies. You have SAS, and they've been more than supportive, but who else, and why?
That's not to say there have been excellent representatives of the sport - Ron Francis, Rod Brind'Amour, Glen Wesley, just to name a few who have been excellent additions to the community.
However, I have tried to remain a fan, but it gets more and more difficult by the day, especially that I live in Charlotte. It should not be easier for me to be able to follow my hometown New York Rangers than the semi-local Carolina Hurricanes. Nailed it. The problem originates at the top and decisions made at the top have led to poor organizational decisions all the way to the bottom for many years. um. the canes won a stanley cup, pretty quickly after they moved. lots of team would love to have the "problem" the canes have. they're committed to winning to the best of their ability, and they're ownership is committed to the same. they've managed to build a formidable fanbase in nc, which lots of whiners like you guys prob said could never be done. you guys are just bitchin to *****, or not real cane fans. get a clue. "You're gonna need a bigger boat"
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Posted: 9/19/2012 12:58 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
the level of success the canes have had DWARFS any other pro team this state has ever seen. if you want to be pissed, aim it at richardson and jordan. theres plenty to ***** about there.  "You're gonna need a bigger boat"
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Posted: 9/19/2012 2:33 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
eighteenpack wrote:the level of success the canes have had DWARFS any other pro team this state has ever seen. if you want to be pissed, aim it at richardson and jordan. theres plenty to ***** about there. I don't think anyone disputes their on-ice success. The problem stems from the finances. If you are a local company, do you spend 30,000 on a dasher board that makes TV for 5 seconds a time or that half the arena sees but can hardly read-----OR----- do you put that money in the HUGE local college sports market? In this market, companies are much more likely to invest in college sports because that is where the majority of the eyes are focused locally and the investment is not near as expensive for the business. More fans of traditional southern sports, thus more exposure for local companies who invest. Companies choose carefully how they spend money............ex: the FORMERLY named "Lexus Champions Club" The exposure didn't justify the cost. Huge problem in a market that companies view as college centric.
Andre Brown after 1st career NFL start:
“Never give up. I learned that in college (at NC State). Jim Valvano.”
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Posted: 9/19/2012 9:17 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
This needs to be said at this point ...
I'm not sure that the average fan or even the average low level employee of a pro sports team understands just how few clubs make money on a regular basis. The value of all pro franchises is in the SALE VALUE of the franchise, not in year to year profits. And profits don't always (or even frequently) guarantee competitive success. Manchester United Football Club is one of the most valuable franchises in all of pro sports ... and they posted a loss in excess of $35 million last season. Does that bother investors? Probably, at least a little bit ... but so long as they maintain their lines of credit and their revenue streams then life goes on much as normal. The owners leverage the book value of the club into more available credit and eventually cash out when they eventually sell the club. That's how pro sports outside of the NFL work folks.
The Carolina Hurricanes are not the best run franchise in the NHL, but they are far from the worst. They are also not the most profitable franchise in the NHL, but they are likewise far from the worst. If you look at all the US-based smaller market teams as a group, Carolina's year to year finances are well in line with the average of that group. Annual loses are not shocking ... they are in fact, expected. And as to the success in their time in this market ... the value of the franchise has gone up by roughly 200% since the arena opened in Raleigh. Times are tough in that league, especially for the small market US teams ... but don't get confused by side issues.
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Posted: 9/19/2012 9:23 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Regarding revenue sharing:
The Maple Leafs had a profit of $81 million last year. And they didn't make the playoffs. In a year with the playoffs, they probably make another 10 million or more.
I assume the numbers are somewhat similar in Montreal, Detroit and NY (for the Rangers). Those rich owners, however, don't want to have more sharing for obvious reasons. The cap ensures their profits every year (previously, they would have been in salary arms races with the other rich teams). If you have a cap like the NHL, you need fairly significant revenue sharing or you still end up with the poor teams losing lots of money because the cap has to go up to meet the agreed to percentage. I don't blame the players for pushing for more revenue sharing here. It's the only way to protect the small teams from the rich ones.
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Posted: 9/19/2012 9:32 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Good point.
It's worth noting that only a few NHL franchises even expect to make a profit on an annual basis. Detroit, Philadelphia, Boston, Toronto, Montreal (who I understand actually lost money last season), NY Rangers, and Chicago. There's another group that typically come close to breaking even and will turn a profit if they make the playoffs ... Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota, Vancouver, LA Pittsburgh and Ottawa. Everybody else in the NHL only stands a chance of making a profit if they make the Conference Finals. There's one odd ball team ... in that Islanders have a huge TV deal that pretty much guarantees them a profit even with almost no ticket sales. But that deal runs out either this year or next and then the Isles will be slumming with everybody else. New Jersey is effectively broke and took short term loans from the league to make payroll last year. Phoenix is being operated by the league to avoid bankruptcy. Pittsburgh actually went bankrupt not too long ago. Atlanta was sold to avoid the same fate.
The economics of the NHL only work in 25% of their markets. And the owners are currently being forced by the players to even discuss meaningful revenue sharing. It's a league run by idiots.
Last edited 9/19/2012 9:34 AM by livewolves
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Posted: 9/19/2012 9:41 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Yes, the same thing that guarantees the rich teams profits (a cap that limits their spending), guarantees the poor teams losses (the salary cap floor) that forces their spending above their means.
They need to improve revenue sharing, without a doubt. Rich owners will probably agree if they get the revenue split low enough to ensure they still make big profits. Of course, the players don't want to give up too much revenue, so it sort of ends up in a standoff where there are three parties:
The players - want rich owners to share more
The rich owners - want higher revenue split for owners
The poor owners - stuck in middle, needing both sides to give
Still don't think the Canes are in anywhere near as bad of shape as some here make it sound. If the Canes had to move, they would have to wait for about 7 other teams first at least.
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Posted: 9/19/2012 10:53 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wolfpackernc wrote:
Still don't think the Canes are in anywhere near as bad of shape as some here make it sound. If the Canes had to move, they would have to wait for about 7 other teams first at least. No, they're not in the dire straights that a lot of people talk about. Their arena deal is actually very good, as they have unrestricted access to all the revenue streams unlike most tenant teams. They share a chunk of the revenue for basketball games with State, but otherwise have one of the better deals in the NHL. And while ticket sales haven't been terrific, they've been consistently decent. The Canes also cheap out by staying relatively close to the payroll floor and by running one of the smallest groups of support staff in the entire NHL. Carolina has among the smallest scouting staffs in all of hockey and despite the presence of large group of former players working in player development, they spend a lot less than the average NHL outfit on that as well. Then there's the issue of "better" markets ... of which there are darned few available. Quebec City has started the process of building a pro arena, but that's a VERY small market ... albeit dead in the heart of hockey country. Other cities that get mentioned as possible locations for moving current NHL teams are Portland, Oklahoma City and Houston ... and only Houston has both the size and the arena to really be an improvement. Yet that market has never shown any real interest in NHL hockey.
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Posted: 9/19/2012 5:11 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Preseason games cancelled thru Sept. 30.
Not surprising.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:10 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
What do you know? One team in the NHL is threatening to relocate it's franchise. Edmonton looking at Seattle? blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012...are-reasonable/Obviously a move to push the city of Edmonton to agree to the teams plans for a new arena. Rexall Place opened in 1974. Now that's a real reason why an organization in the NHL would contemplate relocating. We'll see what the city does in response. Could be a bluff by the team. Could be serious. Scenario similar to how many of these previous relocations started. Would hate to see it happen to the "City of Champions". |
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:17 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Does anyone know what happens to a one year contract like Semin's if they were to lose the entire season? Would he still be under contract for one year starting next fall or does that go away?
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"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." - Ayn Rand
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:18 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
I thought they had already worked out a deal for a new arena in Edmonton. I guess that fell apart? I'm confused.
It would stink to have the Oilers move. They ARE Edmonton.
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:19 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
JaegerWolf wrote: Does anyone know what happens to a one year contract like Semin's if they were to lose the entire season? Would he still be under contract for one year starting next fall or does that go away? It would go away. |
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Posted: 9/24/2012 9:28 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Phoenix ¬ not Edmonton should be Þe team Þæt move.
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Posted: 9/27/2012 4:42 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
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"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." - Ayn Rand
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Posted: 9/27/2012 4:53 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Canes giving season ticket holders 5% simple interest, plus 10% off next year's season tickets and 5% off of 2014-15 season tickets.
They will also give you a refund if you contact them.
I cannot believe how stupid both sides are being. Unlike last time, I don't think the "game needs fixing".
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Posted: 9/28/2012 10:50 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Open letter to the NHL league, owners, and its players. It is now football season for both college and professionals for us south of the border. I think you best get your act together, or you will be back to an all Canada league. I doubt your revenues and players salaries will survive going back to this format. Your are all behaving like greedy children.
Time to Cowboy Up!
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Posted: 9/30/2012 10:07 AM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
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"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." - Ayn Rand
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- wooddra
 - Towel Boy
- 875 posts this site
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Posted: 9/30/2012 1:35 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Canes Carnival was fun today
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Posted: 10/2/2012 1:09 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
US Congress getting involved now.
“In the letter, Senators Lautenberg and Menendez make the case for a swift resolution by asking both sides to think about the economic impact a lockout on not only Newark but the U.S. cities where the 23 of the 30 NHL teams are located”Sounds like a vague threat. “The Senate has jurisdiction over interstate commercial activities, including professional sports, and will keep a close eye on your negotiations with hope that you will work diligently and quickly to resolve this matter.”
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"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." - Ayn Rand
Last edited 10/2/2012 1:12 PM by JaegerWolf
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Posted: 10/2/2012 1:16 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
LOL at the idea US politicians are trying to push the NHL while Canadian politicians aren't (to my knowledge).
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Posted: 10/2/2012 1:48 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Jersey is looking at a franchise on the verge of an epic financial meltdown and a city on the hook for a brand new arena.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 1:50 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wooddra wrote: Canes Carnival was fun today I wouldn't spend 2 minutes of my time doing anything related to supporting the Canes right now.
__________________________________
~Son, you got a panty on your head.~
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Posted: 10/2/2012 2:00 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
grantwolf wrote:
wooddra wrote: Canes Carnival was fun today
I wouldn't spend 2 minutes of my time doing anything related to supporting the Canes right now. I sorta agree with grantwolf here. Last time I completely understood the stand the owners were taking to get a cap because things were broken. Now they are raking in cash at an incredible rate given where they were and they are blowing things up again. I think the owners are fools. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 2:33 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
--------------------------------------------- --- wolfpackernc wrote: grantwolf wrote:
wooddra wrote: Canes Carnival was fun today
I wouldn't spend 2 minutes of my time doing anything related to supporting the Canes right now. I sorta agree with grantwolf here. Last time I completely understood the stand the owners were taking to get a cap because things were broken. Now they are raking in cash at an incredible rate given where they were and they are blowing things up again. I think the owners are fools. --------------------------------------------- Disagree with you on this. Once the NFL and more importantly to the NHL, the NBA, successfully reduced the players revenue to 50%, the NHLPA had to realize that the NHL would not go higher than that. NFLPA's actual split is 47%, but the NFL included the $1 billion they previously took off the table so it comes out to basically 50% compared to past CBA. No way in hell should NHL owners have to pay it's players (57%) more than those two leagues. I'd think they'll wait them out till it's a 50/50 split. ESPN inked a deal with the KHL to show games on ESPN3. Wouldn't be surprised if NBCSN and the NHL Network work out a short-term deal with the AHL or syndicate OHL games to fill in for NHL games once the regular season starts. That will be one way to get your hockey fix.
Last edited 10/2/2012 2:43 PM by wrcwolf
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Posted: 10/2/2012 2:39 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
I think the players are willing to work on the split - but the owners were jackasses for offering 43% off the bat.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 2:48 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Start low, let them know you are serious, work way to middle. Typical negotiations. 50/50 split is probably the best that the NHLPA can do. When all is said and done between 47-50%.
We'll see how long Fehr can keep the players united. Imagine before too long, the 3rd and 4th line players will start to jump ranks. Don't think the NHLPA is the same as the MLBPA. Maybe Fehr has changed them, doubt it.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 2:53 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Hockey players have more options than baseball players. KHL and other Euro leagues provide other opportunities for the players to earn paychecks.
And you can "start low" all you want - but that first offer was so obviously stupid, it insulted me and it wasn't even my money they were talking about taking.
Sorry, but I'm not feeling any pity for the owners this time. They could get this done if they wanted to - but they don't because, as usual with Bettman, it's all about winning.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 3:07 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Not all NHL players have that option. There will be the divide eventually. Always has been with their union.
NHLPA offer was 54%. No chance that happens. Until both sides get closer to 50% like the NFL and NBA, no hockey. Could care less who wins, but that's the number.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:32 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Any chance we can get the Ice Caps back ?
7 dollar seats on the glass and all the beer you could carry back to your seat = good times.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:37 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
Motorcat wrote: Any chance we can get the Ice Caps back ?
7 dollar seats on the glass and all the beer you could carry back to your seat = good times. man, i spent a lot of nights of my childhood in dorton arena watching spencer meaney, jimmy powers, wildgoose, and others. holy flashback!
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:55 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wlfpk81 wrote:
Motorcat wrote: Any chance we can get the Ice Caps back ?
7 dollar seats on the glass and all the beer you could carry back to your seat = good times. man, i spent a lot of nights of my childhood in dorton arena watching spencer meaney, jimmy powers, wildgoose, and others. holy flashback! +1 best birthday party ever |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:59 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
FeloniousQ wrote:
wlfpk81 wrote:
Motorcat wrote: Any chance we can get the Ice Caps back ?
7 dollar seats on the glass and all the beer you could carry back to your seat = good times. man, i spent a lot of nights of my childhood in dorton arena watching spencer meaney, jimmy powers, wildgoose, and others. holy flashback! +1
best birthday party ever ...and I spent quite a few nights in at the Big Barn in Greensboro watching Lyle Wildgoose torment the Monarchs.....He'd always save his best game for us !!! I don't follow this thread much.....What's the lastest inside scoop on the Lock-Out? |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:05 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
David37 wrote:
FeloniousQ wrote:
wlfpk81 wrote:
Motorcat wrote: Any chance we can get the Ice Caps back ?
7 dollar seats on the glass and all the beer you could carry back to your seat = good times. man, i spent a lot of nights of my childhood in dorton arena watching spencer meaney, jimmy powers, wildgoose, and others. holy flashback! +1
best birthday party ever ...and I spent quite a few nights in at the Big Barn in Greensboro watching Lyle Wildgoose torment the Monarchs.....He'd always save his best game for us !!!
I don't follow this thread much.....What's the lastest inside scoop on the Lock-Out? Both sides posturing ........... no progress. I was hoping for X-mas or New Years but talks of the season being cancelled are now being kicked around. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:37 PM
Re: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
I gotta get up to speed on the issues.......I am amazed that they're going down this road again.
If it had not been for the Canes in 2006, I'd still be disllusioned about the 2004 lock-out.
Last edited 10/2/2012 8:38 PM by David37
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Posted: 10/2/2012 8:44 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wrcwolf wrote: Start low, let them know you are serious, work way to middle. Typical negotiations. 50/50 split is probably the best that the NHLPA can do. When all is said and done between 47-50%.
We'll see how long Fehr can keep the players united. Imagine before too long, the 3rd and 4th line players will start to jump ranks. Don't think the NHLPA is the same as the MLBPA. Maybe Fehr has changed them, doubt it. Everyone knows (including owners and players) the only deal is is close to 50/50 with a small +/- on either side of that. Problem is, and I've said it before, is DONALD FEHR. Thay man has single-handedly cause more lockouts in sports the last 20 years because he's a horrible negotiator. Get someone in there who knows what they hell they're doing and it will be solved. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 9:56 PM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
^ This. NHLPA reaches back 20-30 years for the guy who gave MLB all kinds of hell. Thinking he can do the same here. Not a great move IMO. Hockey ain't baseball. No comparison to the business models.
If you can't spot the idiot in your office, you are the idiot in your office - SlackZac
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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:07 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
And yet it's Bettman who has been in position for the last 3 lockouts, not Fehr. The owners were playing for a lockout from day one on this.
I'm not absolving the players or the Fehr brothers by any means, but to say it's solely Fehr's fault is not looking at the whole issue.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 9:59 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
wolfpackernc wrote:
grantwolf wrote:
wooddra wrote: Canes Carnival was fun today
I wouldn't spend 2 minutes of my time doing anything related to supporting the Canes right now. I sorta agree with grantwolf here. Last time I completely understood the stand the owners were taking to get a cap because things were broken. Now they are raking in cash at an incredible rate given where they were and they are blowing things up again. I think the owners are fools. I went and it was a blast. Free inflatables for the kids. Free popcorn and cotton candy. Drinks, etc
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Posted: 10/3/2012 10:09 AM
RE: Carolina Hurricanes 2012-13.1 9/15 lockout at 11:59pm
bowiepackfan wrote: And yet it's Bettman who has been in position for the last 3 lockouts, not Fehr. The owners were playing for a lockout from day one on this.
I'm not absolving the players or the Fehr brothers by any means, but to say it's solely Fehr's fault is not looking at the whole issue. The problem is neither Fehr nor Bettman. It's the big market owners who are driving this lockout. Bettman might be an evil little bridge troll, and the players loathe the guy ... make no mistake about that. But the driving force this time is Snyder (Philly), Jacobs (Boston), Illich (Detroit) and the groups that own the Rangers and Leafs. They want to slash costs even more than they did in the last CBA negotiation, lock players into longer terms and protect themselves from their own tendencies to over-spend.
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