Pretty certain it was not the  refs. "no show performance" by certain teammate

PicklePacker wrote: We weren't in foul trouble and there was no one questionable call that cost us the game. We got drilled. He's not blaming the refs.

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--- rswilli2 wrote:

This is getting good.

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For my part, I am simply pleased to see how well yet another NC State team is handling high expectations.


Truly, we all go to NC State.

ribread wrote: Just reverse his user name:  UNC Leremus.  The latter is Swedish for "prick tease."   I suspect he's just trolling.

I will agree with one of his points.  Officiating hasn't caused 6 conference and 2 non-conference losses this year.  We've clearly under performed against expectations.  

At a certain point, you're nothing more than a product of your record.  We're starting to look more like an 8 loss team than we are a top 15 team.  I'd put us in the category of one of the more disappointing teams against preseason rankings this season.

^Why was it clear to you that this team shouldn't have been a Top 10 team??

We have arguably the best shooter in the country, one of the 10 best point guards in the country, the preseason ACC player of the year, and arguably the best rebounder in the country.  Of which, each are upper classment.  Mix in 3 McD All-Americans and I think it is fair to have pretty lofty expectations.

spoiled wrote: Pretty certain it was not the  refs. "no show performance" by certain teammate

PicklePacker wrote: We weren't in foul trouble and there was no one questionable call that cost us the game. We got drilled. He's not blaming the refs.

LOL I am pretty sure it was the refs.

Gottfried didn't recruit Leslie and he has virtually has no choice but to handle him the way he is given our roster and Leslie's personality. If Leslie had been at Carolina or Duke he would have been recruited over and sent packing long ago as many players have been at both places. Gott has to try to utilize him, and he has to be aware of his tendencies to go ballistic

That's why he is paid something like 2 million bucks for coaching each year.  If it were easy then everyone could do it.

I love all the "I don't think he was talking about that, he was talking about this" posts.

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--- Otter74 wrote:

I love all the "I don't think he was talking about that, he was talking about this" posts.

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That's not what the posts are talking about, see.

legacyman wrote: That's why he is paid something like 2 million bucks for coaching each year.  If it were easy then everyone could do it.

But does he pay taxes on that 2 million?

StateFan2001 wrote: ^Why was it clear to you that this team shouldn't have been a Top 10 team??

We have arguably the best shooter in the country, one of the 10 best point guards in the country, the preseason ACC player of the year, and arguably the best rebounder in the country.  Of which, each are upper classment.  Mix in 3 McD All-Americans and I think it is fair to have pretty lofty expectations.

This was a team that went 9-7 in the ACC.  Good, but not great, that's where we're starting from.  We lost CJ Williams, Alex Johnson, DeShawn Painter, Thomas de Thaey, and Tyler Harris (all 3 left before the preseason rankings came out, right?).  That's two glue guys and three warm bodies in the post.  We added talent, but we definitely needed both of those roles.  We're left with only one real glue guy (Howell) and left thin in the post.  We brought serious talent in, but those guys are freshman and should be expected to play like it (and they have).  Their freshman jitters have hurt us more than they might have because of the depth issues.

Still the potential to be a pretty good team, but not Top 10.  More like Top 25.

Edit to add: we're also still badly lacking in a vocal leader on the floor.

It's been taxing just reading this thread.

I give Scott Wood a ton of credit. He's twisted the fan's drawers into wads. Well done.

Never said a word about who recruited who...  Just saying I think this is a Coaching issue regardless of who recruited him.  Leslie is and can be an extremely talented player and Gott a talented coach just needs to get the wraps on what's going on here, see the same happening with Purvis, too much ego no team play.  Would not last in Durham, Chapel Hill, Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan, or Elon.

sumerelcnu wrote:

ISEWolfpack2010 wrote:

sumerelcnu wrote: Jesus guys, we've gone from preseason #6 in the country and favorites to win the ACC to unranked and hoping we can get a bye for the first round of the ACC.

This isn't b/c of officiating its and epic failure by the coaching staff and some members (cough) CJ (cough) of the team to step up and be leaders.

It's that ******* simple, quit ******* making excuses.

We probably are the biggest disappointment in the NCAA's this year.

We will be lucky to get a 6 seed.

Kentucky might be worse... but yeah, it's been a rough season.

Well UKs ranking was based on its incoming freshman, ours was based on returning players and 1 incoming freshman (purvis).....I say our collapse is twice as bad.

this, experience along with the incoming class is why the ranking was so high

The season is not over...unlike football, you can still win the championship with a few loses...Let the season play out...when the season is done, then all of us arm chair coaches can evaluate the season...For all of you complaining about being ranked high preseason, some of you have been complaining because we were not ranked before..I agree, the preseason ranking was high, but at least we were being discussed and we got a lot of positive publicity from the press for a change... I am also upset we have not performed better this season...but we are still in it.  Unless we have a complete meltdown, trust me, as a Wolfpack fan I know it can happen, regardless, we will be in the NCAA for the 2nd straight year with a coach in his 2nd year..Compared to where we have been the past few years, this is a big improvement...Let the season play out...these next 4 games are very important...and then there is the tournament in Greensboro. A lot of basketball to be played....Go Pack!!!

With about 7 or 8 minutes left we had a 4 point lead.  What happened.  Lazy passing, multiple turnovers lack of 5 guys playing defense, etc.

UNC played harder and wanted it more.  They got tips and rebounds and we just did not want to win enough.

It was in our hands, but the team that played the hardest won.

It is hard to win at UNC.

End of story.

Statewolf wrote: Never said a word about who recruited who...  Just saying I think this is a Coaching issue regardless of who recruited him.  Leslie is and can be an extremely talented player and Gott a talented coach just needs to get the wraps on what's going on here, see the same happening with Purvis, too much ego no team play.  Would not last in Durham, Chapel Hill, Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan, or Elon.

so what do you think he should do?  hes' got a big problem whatever he does with Leslie. there is no right answer, because nobody can fix what's he's got

LoL at hole trolls.  They're worse at it than silent movie slapstick.  Nonstop buffoonery.

ribread wrote: Just reverse his user name:  UNC Leremus.  The latter is Swedish for "prick tease."   I suspect he's just trolling.

I will agree with one of his points.  Officiating hasn't caused 6 conference and 2 non-conference losses this year.  We've clearly under performed against expectations.  

At a certain point, you're nothing more than a product of your record.  We're starting to look more like an 8 loss team than we are a top 15 team.  I'd put us in the category of one of the more disappointing teams against preseason rankings this season.

Because that 3-point shooter hasn't gotten any better since the day he stepped on.  That preseason ACC player is one of the most selfish/lazy players.  And those 3 McDs are still freshmen.

StateFan2001 wrote: ^Why was it clear to you that this team shouldn't have been a Top 10 team??

We have arguably the best shooter in the country, one of the 10 best point guards in the country, the preseason ACC player of the year, and arguably the best rebounder in the country.  Of which, each are upper classment.  Mix in 3 McD All-Americans and I think it is fair to have pretty lofty expectations.

Statewolf wrote: Never said a word about who recruited who...  Just saying I think this is a Coaching issue regardless of who recruited him.  Leslie is and can be an extremely talented player and Gott a talented coach just needs to get the wraps on what's going on here, see the same happening with Purvis, too much ego no team play.  Would not last in Durham, Chapel Hill, Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan, or Elon.

I'm not seeing that in Purvis. Sometimes his decision making is poor but that will come with time. The main issue with Leslie is attitude. If the refs make a bad call, a few shots don't fall, or someone schools him when he is playing D he gets very frustrated and tries to rectify the situation by forcing things. He also has the tendency to be a bit of a downer for the team if things aren't going well. I don't see either of those things in Purvis... poor decision making but none of the issues Leslie has.

Statewolf wrote: Never said a word about who recruited who...  Just saying I think this is a Coaching issue regardless of who recruited him.  Leslie is and can be an extremely talented player and Gott a talented coach just needs to get the wraps on what's going on here, see the same happening with Purvis, too much ego no team play.  Would not last in Durham, Chapel Hill, Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan, or Elon.

That's a pretty harsh accusation.  I think Purvis' issues on the court are more related to him being a freshman, and having to adjust to playing in a system where he's not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th offensive option on the floor at times. 

I think he's trying to figure out how he fits into this lineup, how he can contribute, and where his points should come from.  Next year he will be more of a focal point, and I think he'll be much better.

Yea, I don't think Purvis has near the issues Leslie has.  Purvis plays hard and encourages others regardless if he is on the bench or in the game.  Leslie shuts down completely if he is not scoring or getting his way.

Yeppers. It seems our projected seeding drops every week.
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--- sumerelcnu wrote:

Jesus guys, we've gone from preseason #6 in the country and favorites to win the ACC to unranked and hoping we can get a bye for the first round of the ACC.

This isn't b/c of officiating its and epic failure by the coaching staff and some members (cough) CJ (cough) of the team to step up and be leaders.

It's that ******* simple, quit ******* making excuses.

We probably are the biggest disappointment in the NCAA's this year.

We will be lucky to get a 6 seed.

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ISEWolfpack2010 wrote:

Statewolf wrote: Never said a word about who recruited who...  Just saying I think this is a Coaching issue regardless of who recruited him.  Leslie is and can be an extremely talented player and Gott a talented coach just needs to get the wraps on what's going on here, see the same happening with Purvis, too much ego no team play.  Would not last in Durham, Chapel Hill, Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan, or Elon.

I'm not seeing that in Purvis. Sometimes his decision making is poor but that will come with time. The main issue with Leslie is attitude. If the refs make a bad call, a few shots don't fall, or someone schools him when he is playing D he gets very frustrated and tries to rectify the situation by forcing things. He also has the tendency to be a bit of a downer for the team if things aren't going well. I don't see either of those things in Purvis... poor decision making but none of the issues Leslie has.

I'm not seeing it in Purvis either; I think he plays hard on defense and doesn't nearly force things as much as CJ when his shots aren't dropping.

#3 was preposterous. we lost in the S16, albeit to a very good team, and then we lost three of the top 8 and replaced them with three FR., and really with nobody to replace the 4/5 man.

so it was fair to assume we'd be about the same, which everybody ought to be happy with if it happens. unfortunately for even that to happen Leslie has to come around and at least play as well as he did last year. his year is about as bizarre a case as I can recall. I think it was reasonbale to expect him to be at least a little better, not worse.

I also don't understand what has happened to Zo's outside shooting. maybe he's instructed to wait to try to get it to Wood, which is not a bad plan, but he made a lot of big three's last year when we needed a bucket. now we have one outside shooter, which is tough to compete with when you're playing a team flinging them in from four positions. you have to try to keep up with the extra points

Quit whining about the refs...Gottfried lost that one. State was better when Leslie was out of the game.. Brown made some dumb palys at the end of the game and State didnt execute.. Maybe they should try to get their hands up on defense and not give up so many open 3's without a hand in the shooters face...

Supersport wrote: #3 was preposterous. we lost in the S16, albeit to a very good team, and then we lost three of the top 8 and replaced them with three FR., and really with nobody to replace the 4/5 man.

so it was fair to assume we'd be about the same, which everybody ought to be happy with if it happens. unfortunately for even that to happen Leslie has to come around and at least play as well as he did last year. his year is about as bizarre a case as I can recall. I think it was reasonbale to expect him to be at least a little better, not worse.

I also don't understand what has happened to Zo's outside shooting. maybe he's instructed to wait to try to get it to Wood, which is not a bad plan, but he made a lot of big three's last year when we needed a bucket. now we have one outside shooter, which is tough to compete with when you're playing a team flinging them in from four positions. you have to try to keep up with the extra points

It has been sometime.

Pretty sure your holes were Preseason ranked # 12

What the reasoning over there....

sumerelcnu wrote: Jesus guys, we've gone from preseason #6 in the country and favorites to win the ACC to unranked and hoping we can get a bye for the first round of the ACC.

This isn't b/c of officiating its and epic failure by the coaching staff and some members (cough) CJ (cough) of the team to step up and be leaders.

It's that ******* simple, quit ******* making excuses.

We probably are the biggest disappointment in the NCAA's this year.

We will be lucky to get a 6 seed.

StateFan2001 wrote: ^Why was it clear to you that this team shouldn't have been a Top 10 team??

We have arguably the best shooter in the country, one of the 10 best point guards in the country, the preseason ACC player of the year, and arguably the best rebounder in the country.  Of which, each are upper classment.  Mix in 3 McD All-Americans and I think it is fair to have pretty lofty expectations.

That best shooter, is just that, a shooter, a liability on defense and no ability to do anything whatsoever to create with the ball off the dribble.  One of the 10 best point guards, well, ok.  Best rebounder, sure.  3 McDAA Freshman....Freshman.  ACC POY, that's a joke considering he will be lucky to make the 2nd team All ACC.  Your comments fail to point out any depth.  If each of the 300+ teams in DI basketball were allowed to carry a maximum of 7 guys, we would be a serious final four candidate.  Alas, that is not the case.  We have one guy who isn't charmin soft defensively, and we go 6.5 deep....This does not bode well and we have seen the results 

Funny how depth and defense escaped your criteria for why we should have been successful this year.  Those are probably two of the strongest points guys like K/Knight/Izzo would look at.  As every great coach will tell you, you can always, ALWAYS play defense and block out regardless of your ability.  You aren't always going to score 80 points.  It's a proven theory.

I'll probably get slammed for this, but having painter not transfer would have meant a world of difference.  So folks can analyze the refs/Gottfried/Players X,Y,Z but having Painter back who could legitmately substitute for certain players that let's say, don't give it 100%, would have been crucial.

I don't have any problem with Gottfried. He made a decision to stick with a Jr. in a tight game hoping he would make some plays, instead of benching him for a FR. it was the right decision, but he can't make the plays. his offense puts guys in position to score but they have to execute. Randle would have had 25 in that game

Supersport wrote: I don't have any problem with Gottfried. He made a decision to stick with a Jr. in a tight game hoping he would make some plays, instead of benching him for a FR. it was the right decision, but he can't make the plays. his offense puts guys in position to score but they have to execute. Randle would have had 25 in that game

You're contradicting yourself. You say he made the right call putting a junior that was more of a liability than an asset into the game instead of a freshman, but then you say a high school senior would have scored 25 in the game.

RedTerror29 wrote:

ribread wrote: Just reverse his user name:  UNC Leremus.  The latter is Swedish for "prick tease."   I suspect he's just trolling.

I will agree with one of his points.  Officiating hasn't caused 6 conference and 2 non-conference losses this year.  We've clearly under performed against expectations.  

At a certain point, you're nothing more than a product of your record.  We're starting to look more like an 8 loss team than we are a top 15 team.  I'd put us in the category of one of the more disappointing teams against preseason rankings this season.

This is true...but we never should have been pegged as a Top 10 team.  People looked at the tourny run and thought that was who we are.  The ball bounces differently a couple times and that run doesn't happen.  A better measure of last year's team was the entire season, and that makes us look like a lesser team.

(On the other hand, we've also managed to underacheive against where we should have been ranked.)

(Of course another tourny run can change our thinking on the season, but is this team built for that?  We're thin depth-wise, we make boneheaded decisions in end-of-game situations, and we aren't a great FT shooting team.)

I felt like we were about 10th - 15th headed into the season and should have been picked second in the conference behind Duke.  We had 4 returning players from a Sweet 16 team.  Albeit, some could argue that we just got hot at the end, but I'd say that we had steadily improved all last year.  The only real red flag coming into the season was a lack of depth (which we've done nothing to develop).

I could go back and find other preseason ranked teams that have under performed.  Kentucky is one example (though Noel's injury will be their excuse).  UNC is another (there's no reason they should have this many losses with this many high school All Americans).  There's no doubt we've under performed though.

The season isn't quite over yet.  As much as we look like the product of our record, I still think we can pull it together for a late charge.  College basketball is all about the tournaments and seeding in those.

Yep.  The mods should just mark him as a UNC fan.........

RaleighBound wrote: LoL at hole trolls.  They're worse at it than silent movie slapstick.  Nonstop buffoonery.

ribread wrote: Just reverse his user name:  UNC Leremus.  The latter is Swedish for "prick tease."   I suspect he's just trolling.

I will agree with one of his points.  Officiating hasn't caused 6 conference and 2 non-conference losses this year.  We've clearly under performed against expectations.  

At a certain point, you're nothing more than a product of your record.  We're starting to look more like an 8 loss team than we are a top 15 team.  I'd put us in the category of one of the more disappointing teams against preseason rankings this season.

ribread wrote: Yep.  The mods should just mark him as a UNC fan.........

RaleighBound wrote: LoL at hole trolls.  They're worse at it than silent movie slapstick.  Nonstop buffoonery.

ribread wrote: Just reverse his user name:  UNC Leremus.  The latter is Swedish for "prick tease."   I suspect he's just trolling.

I will agree with one of his points.  Officiating hasn't caused 6 conference and 2 non-conference losses this year.  We've clearly under performed against expectations.  

At a certain point, you're nothing more than a product of your record.  We're starting to look more like an 8 loss team than we are a top 15 team.  I'd put us in the category of one of the more disappointing teams against preseason rankings this season.

It's "Uncle Remus." Jeebus, people. 

ribread, Very good post^^^^ I said the same thing preseason. We should never have been picked by the so-called "experts" more than 2nd or 3rd in the conference for the regular season. I personally think that this team is not easy to "gel" because as some have pointed out, the roles are not as defined...

say what you want.....but this team plays road games as if they were an NBA team on the last leg of a long west coast road trip.....losing does not bother them....it does not appear to bother Gott.....a team is always a reflection of their coach both good and bad....the trouble with Gott is that he is just good enough to make me care again...

Gott has given him ample opportunity, Now he must sit. Lewis, Brown, Woods, Warren and Howell start next game

Jrb599 wrote: Because that 3-point shooter hasn't gotten any better since the day he stepped on.  That preseason ACC player is one of the most selfish/lazy players.  And those 3 McDs are still freshmen.

StateFan2001 wrote: ^Why was it clear to you that this team shouldn't have been a Top 10 team??

We have arguably the best shooter in the country, one of the 10 best point guards in the country, the preseason ACC player of the year, and arguably the best rebounder in the country.  Of which, each are upper classment.  Mix in 3 McD All-Americans and I think it is fair to have pretty lofty expectations.

Scott Wood hasn't improved since he got here? I have a tough time seeing where you're coming from with that one...

NCSU1949 wrote: Gott has given him ample opportunity, Now he must sit. Lewis, Brown, Woods, Warren and Howell start next game

Just said a prayer, thanked God that you aren't actually our coach

Leslie is not what we expected him to be this year, sure. But anyone that thinks we are a better team without him is delusional.

He had a bad game against UNC, get over it. We'd be at the same spot as VT if we didn't have Calvin.