grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote: Wouldn't it be nice for our team to make a great end-of-year run in part because of our fans, not in spite of them?

How does that work? And while I certainly understand and respect your point of view, man, you should talk to my friend Rhonda about Kentucky fans last year. Y'all ain't seen crazy, and the team did all right for themselves in the end.

Right, because Kentucky and NC State are right there neck-and-neck in the basketball landscape.  We can be just as ruthless as them to our team, and expect the same results.  We have the same margin for error.

And yes, I do believe that the way a group of fans treat their players (both here, and in person) impacts the "vibe" and "emotion" of a team.  Scott Wood clearly feels like our fans are complaining...he's hearing from somewhere.

Fayettewuf wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

MisterRee wrote:
Agreed he is neither
So far he has turned out to be an exciting, innovative coach who has done more at NCSU than his three predecessors and yet some want him fired. Crazy

I do not think it is fair to declare the underachieving by the team a coaching failure. Lets not go overboard the other way either. But what innovations has Gott come up with? To his credit: He has come up with a couple of prize recruits.  He has attracted a very good staff.

Your boy Herb did nothing but underachieve for ten years and you NEVER complained about it. You never even mentioned it. Ten years.

The reason that I have you on ignore and will keep you on ignore is your lack of reading comprehension (RC to save keystrokes), your propensity for making imbecilic statements (IS) and the fact that you keep trying to reopen the Herb debate.
I did not say that Gott (gee whiz some are worried about coeds and Gott; I am worried about you and Gott) had underachieved (RC). I said this team had underachieved.
Herb did nothing but underachieve for 10 years (IS, which of Herb's team was picked to win the conference)
I plan to stop peeking unless I need a laugh.

ISEWolfpack2010 wrote: I'm actually glad we won the last two like this. We've had so many like that go against us our team probably couldn't help but think "here we go again" every time it got close.

They now know how it feels to lose close (a good thing to motivate) but also how to pull it out when it is close.

Will ultimately help them in a few weeks.

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote: Wouldn't it be nice for our team to make a great end-of-year run in part because of our fans, not in spite of them?

How does that work? And while I certainly understand and respect your point of view, man, you should talk to my friend Rhonda about Kentucky fans last year. Y'all ain't seen crazy, and the team did all right for themselves in the end.

Right, because Kentucky and NC State are right there neck-and-neck in the basketball landscape.  We can be just as ruthless as them to our team, and expect the same results.  We have the same margin for error.

And yes, I do believe that the way a group of fans treat their players (both here, and in person) impacts the "vibe" and "emotion" of a team.  Scott Wood clearly feels like our fans are complaining...he's hearing from somewhere.

You missed the entire point. State fans are no worse than other fan bases. Not even close. With the number of boards I've visited over the years, this is rather tame. As I said, y'all haven't seen crazy if you think this is bad.

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote: Wouldn't it be nice for our team to make a great end-of-year run in part because of our fans, not in spite of them?

How does that work? And while I certainly understand and respect your point of view, man, you should talk to my friend Rhonda about Kentucky fans last year. Y'all ain't seen crazy, and the team did all right for themselves in the end.

Right, because Kentucky and NC State are right there neck-and-neck in the basketball landscape.  We can be just as ruthless as them to our team, and expect the same results.  We have the same margin for error.

And yes, I do believe that the way a group of fans treat their players (both here, and in person) impacts the "vibe" and "emotion" of a team.  Scott Wood clearly feels like our fans are complaining...he's hearing from somewhere.

You missed the entire point. State fans are no worse than other fan bases. Not even close. With the number of boards I've visited over the years, this is rather tame. As I said, y'all haven't seen crazy if you think this is bad.

Which basketball fans, with a similar 22 year history, are as bad as ours....and which of those went to the S16 last year, and are headed back to the NCAA's this year.  I'd love to visit their boards to see for myself.  If their coach is in year 2, it would also help, for comparison's sake.

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote: I agree that wanting him fired halfway through his 2nd season with a top recruiting class coming in is crazy. I thought I made that clear. Maybe not.

On the other hand, being much better than his 3 predecessors is hardly a testament to greatness.

But you'd agree that being better than his 3 predecessors here in year 1 1/2 is a step in the right direction, and certainly deserving of some patience and support, no?

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote: Wouldn't it be nice for our team to make a great end-of-year run in part because of our fans, not in spite of them?

How does that work? And while I certainly understand and respect your point of view, man, you should talk to my friend Rhonda about Kentucky fans last year. Y'all ain't seen crazy, and the team did all right for themselves in the end.

Right, because Kentucky and NC State are right there neck-and-neck in the basketball landscape.  We can be just as ruthless as them to our team, and expect the same results.  We have the same margin for error.

And yes, I do believe that the way a group of fans treat their players (both here, and in person) impacts the "vibe" and "emotion" of a team.  Scott Wood clearly feels like our fans are complaining...he's hearing from somewhere.

You missed the entire point. State fans are no worse than other fan bases. Not even close. With the number of boards I've visited over the years, this is rather tame. As I said, y'all haven't seen crazy if you think this is bad.

Which basketball fans, with a similar 22 year history, are as bad as ours....and which of those went to the S16 last year, and are headed back to the NCAA's this year.  I'd love to visit their boards to see for myself.  If their coach is in year 2, it would also help, for comparison's sake.

You're asking for a snapshot in time that doesn't exist, and you know it doesn't. There will never be an apples to apples comparison like the one you're asking for. But I have visited boards (Memphis, West Virginia, and Pitt to name a few) that have accomplished nowhere near what we have in basketball that were far more hostile. We're not as outlandish as it may seem. But many of you will never be convinced of that.

JaegerWolf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote: I agree that wanting him fired halfway through his 2nd season with a top recruiting class coming in is crazy. I thought I made that clear. Maybe not.

On the other hand, being much better than his 3 predecessors is hardly a testament to greatness.

But you'd agree that being better than his 3 predecessors here in year 1 1/2 is a step in the right direction, and certainly deserving of some patience and support, no?

As I have already stated on more than one occasion, YES.

Is there also reason for some concern, YES.

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

grantwolf wrote: Wouldn't it be nice for our team to make a great end-of-year run in part because of our fans, not in spite of them?

How does that work? And while I certainly understand and respect your point of view, man, you should talk to my friend Rhonda about Kentucky fans last year. Y'all ain't seen crazy, and the team did all right for themselves in the end.

Right, because Kentucky and NC State are right there neck-and-neck in the basketball landscape.  We can be just as ruthless as them to our team, and expect the same results.  We have the same margin for error.

And yes, I do believe that the way a group of fans treat their players (both here, and in person) impacts the "vibe" and "emotion" of a team.  Scott Wood clearly feels like our fans are complaining...he's hearing from somewhere.

You missed the entire point. State fans are no worse than other fan bases. Not even close. With the number of boards I've visited over the years, this is rather tame. As I said, y'all haven't seen crazy if you think this is bad.

Which basketball fans, with a similar 22 year history, are as bad as ours....and which of those went to the S16 last year, and are headed back to the NCAA's this year.  I'd love to visit their boards to see for myself.  If their coach is in year 2, it would also help, for comparison's sake.

You're asking for a snapshot in time that doesn't exist, and you know it doesn't. There will never be an apples to apples comparison like the one you're asking for. But I have visited boards (Memphis, West Virginia, and Pitt to name a few) that have accomplished nowhere near what we have in basketball that were far more hostile. We're not as outlandish as it may seem. But many of you will never be convinced of that.

Two things:
1) I think we are a unique program, with a unique "quarter century" of basketball, which calls for some restraint when criticizing our coach and our team.  You'd think people would understand that, given what we've live through.
2) Even if you don't agree with #1, is it too much to ask that we be better than those "other fans"?

redterrors04 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

Exactly rswilli. This team is very capable of winning that is what is disappointing about the way the team has played at times. Many have the red tinted glasses on and refuse to see any type of struggle. Cue the what did you expect to go undefeated? crowd lol. I have no problem with the coach as of now and have yet to see anyone say he should be fired maybe I missed it. I just expect better play against BAD teams. Many people always post things like...well this team played that team close as well and this team lost a game too...I for one could care less what other teams do. I am a State fan and interested in how they have played and are playing.

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

Exactly rswilli. This team is very capable of winning that is what is disappointing about the way the team has played at times. Many have the red tinted glasses on and refuse to see any type of struggle. Cue the what did you expect to go undefeated? crowd lol. I have no problem with the coach as of now and have yet to see anyone say he should be fired maybe I missed it. I just expect better play against BAD teams. Many people always post things like...well this team played that team close as well and this team lost a game too...I for one could care less what other teams do. I am a State fan and interested in how they have played and are playing.

Stated Differently: "I don't care to see the reality of college basketball...I expect something different from NCSU than I do of almost every single program in the country".

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote: I agree that wanting him fired halfway through his 2nd season with a top recruiting class coming in is crazy. I thought I made that clear. Maybe not.

On the other hand, being much better than his 3 predecessors is hardly a testament to greatness.

But you'd agree that being better than his 3 predecessors here in year 1 1/2 is a step in the right direction, and certainly deserving of some patience and support, no?

As I have already stated on more than one occasion, YES.

Is there also reason for some concern, YES.

I'm glad you have your "concern" radar up at "the ready".  Let me know who's on your short list to replace Gott.

redterrors04 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

Exactly rswilli. This team is very capable of winning that is what is disappointing about the way the team has played at times. Many have the red tinted glasses on and refuse to see any type of struggle. Cue the what did you expect to go undefeated? crowd lol. I have no problem with the coach as of now and have yet to see anyone say he should be fired maybe I missed it. I just expect better play against BAD teams. Many people always post things like...well this team played that team close as well and this team lost a game too...I for one could care less what other teams do. I am a State fan and interested in how they have played and are playing.

Stated Differently: "I don't care to see the reality of college basketball...I expect something different from NCSU than I do of almost every single program in the country".

lol read that again I am sure it says I am INTERESTED in how State plays not other teams, not that I expect different but whatever. I love the I can find an excuse anywhere folks lol.

Fayettewuf wrote:

 Miss Ree 

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

JaegerWolf wrote: I agree that wanting him fired halfway through his 2nd season with a top recruiting class coming in is crazy. I thought I made that clear. Maybe not.

On the other hand, being much better than his 3 predecessors is hardly a testament to greatness.

But you'd agree that being better than his 3 predecessors here in year 1 1/2 is a step in the right direction, and certainly deserving of some patience and support, no?

As I have already stated on more than one occasion, YES.

Is there also reason for some concern, YES.

I'm glad you have your "concern" radar up at "the ready".  Let me know who's on your short list to replace Gott.

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

My stance on Gott has nothing to do with what I thought about the Sendek situation. I defended Sendek on different grounds than I defend Gott. 

Loucouldcoach wrote: . I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa)

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

Exactly rswilli. This team is very capable of winning that is what is disappointing about the way the team has played at times. Many have the red tinted glasses on and refuse to see any type of struggle. Cue the what did you expect to go undefeated? crowd lol. I have no problem with the coach as of now and have yet to see anyone say he should be fired maybe I missed it. I just expect better play against BAD teams. Many people always post things like...well this team played that team close as well and this team lost a game too...I for one could care less what other teams do. I am a State fan and interested in how they have played and are playing.

Stated Differently: "I don't care to see the reality of college basketball...I expect something different from NCSU than I do of almost every single program in the country".

lol read that again I am sure it says I am INTERESTED in how State plays not other teams, not that I expect different but whatever. I love the I can find an excuse anywhere folks lol.

You are saying that you choose to ignore valid comparisons to other good/great teams that struggle or lose to lesser teams because you "aren't interested" in other teams.  I think it's pretty odd, considering that ultimately we will play against and be judged against those other teams.

NCSU doesn't play in a vacuum, and we do play against other teams.

Most of the comments you see are to put things in perspective.  Yes, having to go to overtime to beat Va. Tech seems "below" this team, but look at Duke vs. BC and Miami vs. Clemson.  It's only meant to say, "hey...this is life in the ACC.  Games aren't easy.  Other teams also have good players...and those players play hard".

I watched the Va. Tech game.  I had DVR'd it, and watched it with the knowledge that we won the game....so no stress involved.  I saw us play some pretty good (not great) defense.  I also saw two teams playing really really hard.  I saw Va. Tech makes some great  (well defended) shots.  I saw us win a really close game...and one that really wouldn't have gone to overtime if a ref calls an obvious infraction.

I came away knowing we had things to improve upon, but really nothing to complain about.

redterrors04 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

redterrors04 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

Let me go over this again, since a lot of people seem to have serious trouble comprehending why some aren't dancing in the rain and clicking their heels about this team:

This is the best chance that NC State has had to win the ACC and advance to the Final Four in decades. The talent is there. When they've been engaged, focused, and sharp, they've shown signs of a team that can beat anybody. But far too often this season, from the preseason scrubs to the current ACC competition, we come out flat on offense or lazy on defense (refusing to communicate on switches, screens, and rotations, going under screens, reaching instead of moving our feet, etc.). And that's disturbing to people because we won't win **** with that level of effort and attention to detail. 

I think everyone realizes that this CAN be a special season, but only if the team stops going through the motions and finds the ability to do the necessary dirty work on the boards and on defense for more than 4-5 minutes at a time.

Exactly rswilli. This team is very capable of winning that is what is disappointing about the way the team has played at times. Many have the red tinted glasses on and refuse to see any type of struggle. Cue the what did you expect to go undefeated? crowd lol. I have no problem with the coach as of now and have yet to see anyone say he should be fired maybe I missed it. I just expect better play against BAD teams. Many people always post things like...well this team played that team close as well and this team lost a game too...I for one could care less what other teams do. I am a State fan and interested in how they have played and are playing.

Stated Differently: "I don't care to see the reality of college basketball...I expect something different from NCSU than I do of almost every single program in the country".

lol read that again I am sure it says I am INTERESTED in how State plays not other teams, not that I expect different but whatever. I love the I can find an excuse anywhere folks lol.

You are saying that you choose to ignore valid comparisons to other good/great teams that struggle or lose to lesser teams because you "aren't interested" in other teams.  I think it's pretty odd, considering that ultimately we will play against and be judged against those other teams.

NCSU doesn't play in a vacuum, and we do play against other teams.

Most of the comments you see are to put things in perspective.  Yes, having to go to overtime to beat Va. Tech seems "below" this team, but look at Duke vs. BC and Miami vs. Clemson.  It's only meant to say, "hey...this is life in the ACC.  Games aren't easy.  Other teams also have good players...and those players play hard".

I watched the Va. Tech game.  I had DVR'd it, and watched it with the knowledge that we won the game....so no stress involved.  I saw us play some pretty good (not great) defense.  I also saw two teams playing really really hard.  I saw Va. Tech makes some great  (well defended) shots.  I saw us win a really close game...and one that really wouldn't have gone to overtime if a ref calls an obvious infraction.

I came away knowing we had things to improve upon, but really nothing to complain about.

I know what you are saying and understand how it comes across. I just don't get all involved in the this team that team like many do but yes of course it is used to put things in perspective. I watch a lot of basketball as do we all who post here. However I have found myself watching State games then just checking scores more this year. I went into that game expecting a close one (not that close) so not shocked either...still disappointing after having a week off (for me at at least) I expected a little better is all.

Loucouldcoach wrote: A few of my opinions


We have a good coach and staff.Sorry but there isn't anything that suggests they are elite.

I agree with willi that this is a great year for us to hang a banner finally, once again. We have talent to reach that goal.The conference isn't very strong (ie  i'll be shocked if more than 4 teams are dancing The Cheat is as down as they will ever be with Roy and Duke aint Duke without Kelly. Unfortunately for the regular season we have The U that has taken advantage of the weaker conference and not us.

Having said that, I'm old school and don't give a poop about the regular season.Basketball is and has always been a tournament sport. If you listen closely to gott, he basically says over and over, screw Dec and Jan, late Feb and March is when it all begins. IMO, I agree, but this philosophy will drive the younger generation (its all about me) nuts

Lastly, I enjoy PP and most of the different views on display. I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa) Who and why care about something so long ago ? really,  why? Once again IMO, I dont have any problem with questioning the coaches about anything. They should be fair game especially now that Yao decided to nearly double gotts salary after 1 friggen season  (Don't get me started on that one,   WTF   were was he going to go?)

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

My stance on Gott has nothing to do with what I thought about the Sendek situation. I defended Sendek on different grounds than I defend Gott. 

I haven't really seen you "defend Gott"....at all...and it seemed to be the only thing you ever did in the Sendek era. Find one line criticizing. I have stated over and over that I think he has assembled a good staff and that the underachievement is not due to coaching. WTF do you want?
If you want people to understand the double-standard, you'll need to explain it to us.  So far, all I've seen is that Sendek "didn't underachieve".  If you can do it without calling people names, or questioning their intellect, even better.
Sorry but when people accuse me of criticizing when I did not criticize, try use a position from 7 or 8 freaking years ago to attack an entirely different position today, I suspect either mental deficiency or malice. I do not understand when I am discussing a coach now why my position on two coaches ago even comes up. For my position to be inconsistent, then the situations would have to be the same. They are not. I am so tired of the Sendek argument that I cannot imagine why anyone would dredge it up. Ree when I even commented on the Gott situation, could not wait to mention Sendek. It was annoying. I do not know how Gott will work out. Some things look good.  I have stipulated to that. Others will have to wait. What the hell has that opinion got to do with what I thought 8 years and why do you care?

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

My stance on Gott has nothing to do with what I thought about the Sendek situation. I defended Sendek on different grounds than I defend Gott. 

I haven't really seen you "defend Gott"....at all...and it seemed to be the only thing you ever did in the Sendek era. Find one line criticizing. I have stated over and over that I think he has assembled a good staff and that the underachievement is not due to coaching. WTF do you want?

the Cubbies gathered around. Through the snow their tracks ,

were there for all to see, leading 19,000 to the PNC.

Led by Top Gun Green, Eddie, Brown, and a Wood there was Rains

and Rankin who thought they could rough-up the Wolfpack in

its own neighborhood. Little did they know how cunning a WolfPack can be,  stalking and running its prey. The battle was fierce led by Big Rich, Cobra-J, LoBro, and Tall Timber Wood with HotRodney, TJ, and little Tyler that could.

The Cubbies were primed and as loud as can be, urging Cobra to strike

and knock them to their knees. Big Rich was there to clean up and put

The Hammer down while Tall Timber Wood dropped in 6 from out of town.

Little Tyler that could showed the world that “ he’s got game” with driving,

dishing, and scoring in the lane.  TJ and HotRodney were all in the mix, with LoBro in charge of this fix.  Top Gun drove toward the lane and the Cubbies roared "this is insane". Out of the snow flashed a Wolf with demeanor , LoBro took Top Gun to the cleaners. Off he ran like a thief in the night, to deal another assist to each Cubbies delight. Though many will say this is just another win, its more that, it was a fight to the end. We had a chance to seal the deal in the regulation game, but overtime gives another chance to accomplish the same.

Tall Timber Wood notched his 300^th three, and Big Rich with 16 rebounds again roamed free.

PackProwler1971

MisterRee wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: . I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa)

I have only done that with one poster. He rode me for years about any criticism I ever laid on Sendek. I am simply pointing out his complete hypocrisy.

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

My stance on Gott has nothing to do with what I thought about the Sendek situation. I defended Sendek on different grounds than I defend Gott. 

I haven't really seen you "defend Gott"....at all...and it seemed to be the only thing you ever did in the Sendek era. Find one line criticizing. I have stated over and over that I think he has assembled a good staff and that the underachievement is not due to coaching. WTF do you want?

It is your tolerance for criticism that is at issue here Fayette...not your criticism.  You would not tolerate criticism of Sendek while he was coaching here...and you wouldn't tolerate it after he left.  Now, in year 1.5 of Gott, you actually seem to defend the criticism of Gott.

To be consistent, you'd think you'd be on my side here, unless you think the criticism of Gott is warranted, where it wasn't warranted directed at Sendek.

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

grantwolf wrote:
I'm sorry Fayette, but your stance on Gott, and respective stance on Sendek are borderline ridiculous.  As Re has pointed out, you were pretty notorious for never criticizing Sendek, and arguing vociferously against those that did.  

To suggest that it wasn't fair to criticize Sendek because his teams didn't underachieve, while also understanding that no high level of success was ever expected of Sendek's teams, is absurd.  

So as long as people don't ever expect you to be great, its OK to never achieve greatness, but if in your second year people think you're going to win the league, and you stumble, it's OK to ***** and moan...that's basically what your are saying.  Unreal.

My stance on Gott has nothing to do with what I thought about the Sendek situation. I defended Sendek on different grounds than I defend Gott. 

I haven't really seen you "defend Gott"....at all...and it seemed to be the only thing you ever did in the Sendek era. Find one line criticizing. I have stated over and over that I think he has assembled a good staff and that the underachievement is not due to coaching. WTF do you want?

It is your tolerance for criticism that is at issue here Fayette...not your criticism.  You would not tolerate criticism of Sendek while he was coaching here...and you wouldn't tolerate it after he left.  Now, in year 1.5 of Gott, you actually seem to defend the criticism of Gott.

To be consistent, you'd think you'd be on my side here, unless you think the criticism of Gott is warranted, where it wasn't warranted directed at Sendek.

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: . I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa)

I have only done that with one poster. He rode me for years about any criticism I ever laid on Sendek. I am simply pointing out his complete hypocrisy.

That's a Hatfield-McCoy feud, Lou. Goes back longer than the mind remembers. Just let it be. 

Fayettewuf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: . I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa)

I have only done that with one poster. He rode me for years about any criticism I ever laid on Sendek. I am simply pointing out his complete hypocrisy.

That's a Hatfield-McCoy feud, Lou. Goes back longer than the mind remembers. Just let it be. 

 Will someone send Ree a link to a dictionary. Hypocrisy and inconsistency are two different concepts. I have criticized no one for defending nor attacking Gott. Hypocrisy is the wrong word. He could go for inconsistent but since there are vastly different circumstances expecting consistency would be silly.

grantwolf wrote:

Fayettewuf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: . I don't understand why folks take it so serious to the point it becomes personal (ie Ree  bringing up a posters view about a coach that hasnt been here in what  7 years now?  and vice versa)

I have only done that with one poster. He rode me for years about any criticism I ever laid on Sendek. I am simply pointing out his complete hypocrisy.

That's a Hatfield-McCoy feud, Lou. Goes back longer than the mind remembers. Just let it be. 

 Will someone send Ree a link to a dictionary. Hypocrisy and inconsistency are two different concepts. I have criticized no one for defending nor attacking Gott. Hypocrisy is the wrong word. He could go for inconsistent but since there are vastly different circumstances expecting consistency would be silly.

Could you elaborate on "vastly different circumstances"?

MisterRee wrote:

grantwolf wrote:

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding

I can't say as though I've seen anyone say he should be fired, but there are clearly people on our board who don't think he's a good coach.  Implied in that (when voiced loudly) is that they aren't happy that he's our coach and wish we had someone better.

At least one has proclaimed that next year will be the deciding factor of how we judge Gott (you know...like, let's not wait like we did with Lowe or Sendek)...so we're not at the point of "fire the guy right now", but we're not far off.

On top of that I have seen posts that say fire Gott.

Loucouldcoach wrote: Seriously   has anyone mentioned firing or wanting gott gone? If so, let us know who cause I need to fire up the old ignore button again.


If folks are bitching about these 1st 2 years   damn if PP ain't gonna be a miserable place next year when we are rebuilding