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RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:28 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
ScoobyWolf wrote:
WaffleIron wrote: Where's the youtube of Green's walk? Pretty sure he took 4-5 steps from half court to the hoop and still missed it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0jg2t-8tQI Wow, that is one for the books there. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:32 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
As long as the swoff is in power....deal with it. The refs will always be biased for the cheats and against the Pack. And he will remain silent on the whole cesspool in chapel hill.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:32 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
Wufman66 wrote:
WolfStock wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote: Here is a better capture of the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtu.be
Hate to say it, but that was a foul on Howell. Look on the replay at his right hand, at :26 in - it hits Zegeren's wrist pretty good, while Zegeren has the ball with both hands. The contact pulls the Zegeren's arm down, which makes it look like an over-the-back. Zegeren did come down on Howell's back, but the foul was before that.
Good call by the official IMO. It was tough to see from the stands and from the TV, which is why everyone complained - but I think it was a good call. You are flat wrong. Howell did hit the VT player on the hand which was on the ball and by rule that is not a foul. A hand is considered part of the ball. Besides Aegeren went over Howell's back to get to the ball and the foul should have been called on him at that point. If you look at the replay everybody on the court including Zegeren and the 2 off officials (and the VT bench) thought it was a foul on Zegeren. Everybody! Except Eades. It shall be legal for a defender to accidentally hit the hand of a ballhandler when reaching to block or slap the ball when there is player control with that player’s hand in contact with the ball and when that player is: a. A dribbler; b. Attempting a try for field goal; or c. Holding the ball. I think it should have been a no call....watching the replay I don't think the VT player goes over his back. Looks to me like he goes straight up and Howell is standing just about under the basket. I thought they were going to call something on CJL defending the guy before that.
drink beer straight from the bottle...brilliant!
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:33 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
TexasWolfpack wrote: What's funny is that every player on the court thought it was an over the back on VT and started walking downcourt.
Another call I'd like to see again is the non-double dribble on VT - refering to the one where the ref made the "bobble" gesture. I thought the VT player was dribbling, started to dribble off the pass, had two hands on the ball, and dropped it - there wasn't an NC State player w/in 8 ft of the guy. Wasn't it an obvious double dribble or am I missing something here? I wanted to complain about that one, too. But after I thought about it, I believe he really did just lose the ball. And went after it. Granted, if they let that go, then what's to keep someone from doing that all the way to the rim without dribbling? But then it would be obviously intentional. But he lost it backwards, and jumped backwards to go get it. I'm OK with that one. It's all the other blatantly obviously missed calls (or bad calls) that irritated me. We had more talent than VT, and they couldn't stop us. But when they foul us instead, and it doesn't get called, well the refs just became the great equalizer. We should have won this one going away.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:39 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
griff17matt wrote: I love blaming the refs just as much as anyone, but we had 43 foul shots to their 7. 43 to SEVEN. They only shot 5 more threes than we did. Horrible calls - yes, but it's not like we didn't get our fair share. I was having this "conversation" on another blog with State fans. The free throw attempts disparity (that alone) is not grounds for poor officiating. That's just someone looking at the stat sheet. Personally, we should have shot 50, not 43. We are a more talented team, and we take the ball inside more than most other teams. Under those circumstances, we are GOING to get more fouls called and hence, shoot more free throws. Also, the timing of the fouls could impact that, too. If they are fouling us in the act of shooting, and we were fouling them when they were NOT shooting, then we're going to shoot more. I'm talking about the vision test. The officiating does not pass the vision test. Sometimes I wonder if the refs just don't like CJL or something, and let him get hacked without calling it (not every time, but often). I don't think these refs just wanted State to lose. But I think maybe they were letting things go against CJL, and maybe they just wanted a close game for drama purposes. Who knows. All I know is there were SEVERAL calls/no-calls that boggle the mind. Not talking about ticky-tack stuff that could have gone either way. I'm talking about stuff like calling Howell for the foul when he had a VT guy on his shoulders like a backpack, and the 6-steps that were not called for traveling. It was just ugly, and it's not much fun watching games like this. You can't count on even the most obvious calls to be called correctly, and it's infuriating. Even in a win. Because next time this happens, we might not be good enough to overcome the refs.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:41 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
CanadianWolf wrote: Here is a better capture of the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtu.be If the refs wanted to let the VT player get away with that, then fine. But how did they call that on HOWELL??? I saw where someone suggested that refs have huge egos, and they blew the whistle and got it wrong. But no way were they going to eat crow and reverse it. So they let it stand.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:48 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
JNWolf wrote:
TruthBKnownReturns wrote:
maliciouself wrote: Did they change the call? I thought we ended up with the ball. We ended up with the ball because VT committed an over-and-back violation (IIRC). I was so irritated I wasn't watching it closely, I just heard the announcers saying VT gave it right back. But Howell SHOULD have been shooting free throws, so even giving it back did not make up for that horrendous call.
It really was one of the worst-ever calls I think I've ever seen. Usually the poor officiating is when they call something against State, but let the same contact go when our opponent does something identical. But THIS... I've never seen anything like that.
You didn't see it because they didn't show the over and back. The camera crew was busy showing multiple angles of that ridiculous call against Howell. OK good, but even if it was shown, I wouldn't have seen it. I was only seeing RED at that point. 
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:49 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
WolfStock wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote: Here is a better capture of the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtu.be
Hate to say it, but that was a foul on Howell. Look on the replay at his right hand, at :26 in - it hits Zegeren's wrist pretty good, while Zegeren has the ball with both hands. The contact pulls the Zegeren's arm down, which makes it look like an over-the-back. Zegeren did come down on Howell's back, but the foul was before that.
Good call by the official IMO. It was tough to see from the stands and from the TV, which is why everyone complained - but I think it was a good call. Would someone ban this clown, please?  Just kidding, I may have to re-think that one now. But there were MANY, MANY others, even if this one was the right call. I still have a hard time with it because I don't think the VT guy even grabs that ball without being over the back in the first place.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:51 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
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--- mcpack1 wrote:
There are only 2 options for the refs:
1. Blatantly incompetent
2. Blatantly cheating
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Option 1....don't get the conspiracy theorists started.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:51 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
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--- DeltaWolf wrote:
As long as the swoff is in power....deal with it. The refs will always be biased for the cheats and against the Pack. And he will remain silent on the whole cesspool in chapel hill.
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You can't have biased against a team that shot 43 free throws to the other teams 7.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 6:52 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
--------------------------------------------- --- WolfStock wrote: FrontierWolf wrote:
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--- WolfStock wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote: Here is a better capture of the play: www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtu.be
Hate to say it, but that was a foul on Howell. Look on the replay at his right hand, at :26 in - it hits Zegeren's wrist pretty good, while Zegeren has the ball with both hands. The contact pulls the Zegeren's arm down, which makes it look like an over-the-back. Zegeren did come down on Howell's back, but the foul was before that.
Good call by the official IMO. It was tough to see from the stands and from the TV, which is why everyone complained - but I think it was a good call.
---------------------------------------------
Hate to say it, but you're wrong. No matter how hard you study :26. If you do a frame by frame analysis of contact on any specific play a single frame isn't going to necessarily indicate the foul. There's really no disputing that was a bad call from any evidence I've seen.
FWIW, in the first half you could tell the fix was in and that at least one ref was making questionable calls. Debbie Yow came and sat down at the scorers table at the start of the second half. I don't remember her being there for the first half and I bet she came down because of the refs.
I think the Refs office is going to be getting a call after the game. Maybe they can justify the "under the back" and five step shuffle to her. Be specific - are you saying you don't think Howell's hand came across his wrist? Hate to be argumentative - but it seems pretty clear to me actually. At a minimum I would say it could be a "questionable" call (if one thinks the contact that happened should have been let go), but certainly not a horrible one by any stretch. Everyone's focusing on the over-the-back, but the foul happened before that. --------------------------------------------- No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you're looking for a foul you can find a foul or reason to dispute just about any call ever made in any game. You're looking for a call and you found it. It's just your argumentative streak talking and I understand that. What I'm saying is that 100% of the time if the ref is looking at the game objectively that's going to be an over the back. I's not going to be an incidental slap in a game where players are constantly hammering each other. I'm saying that it's inconsistent with the history of basketball and that you have to grasp at straws to say that it was anything other than a blown call. If the foul was before the call then it should have been made before the rebound was made. That does bring up another issue though. The whistles were particularly late in this game. Even at the end of the game where Scott Wood got a pass from Brown and dribbled it before a foul was called. Nobody knew where the foul was because the foul was called so long after Brown relinquished possession. This was simply a horribly officiated game.
Last edited 2/16/2013 6:58 PM by FrontierWolf
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:04 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
WolfStock wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote: Here is a better capture of the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtu.be
Hate to say it, but that was a foul on Howell. Look on the replay at his right hand, at :26 in - it hits Zegeren's wrist pretty good, while Zegeren has the ball with both hands. The contact pulls the Zegeren's arm down, which makes it look like an over-the-back. Zegeren did come down on Howell's back, but the foul was before that.
Good call by the official IMO. It was tough to see from the stands and from the TV, which is why everyone complained - but I think it was a good call. there is a 0.0 percent chance that was a foul on Howell. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:06 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I'm not sure how you guys are counting 6 steps.
3, definitely. 4 borderline. Travel, absolutely. 6, no way.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:08 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I wonder if DG will spend all of Monday's show talking about this blown call as he did last week following Cook's no call in the BC game?
I really hope we send video of this to Swoff and Cloughs.
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- BSPack
- Starter
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:15 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
Why is no one talking about the ILLEGAL VT missed FT tip in play at the end of regulation???? The announcers and ESPN studio guys keep talking about the illegal play. Was it just not as obvious?
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:28 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
Unless im seeing things Maryland just had a 4 point play vs Duke. 16:03 mark, Shaq Cleare makes bucket and is fouled. Then shoots two free throw. Goes from 45-49. How does that happen?
"It just keeps coming and coming," Mitchel said. "I wonder who is minding the store."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:31 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
WaffleIron wrote:Worst officiated game ive seen this year. Leslie was hammered on the play before the technical by two different hokies, he also got shoved on the break in the back down to the floor a few minutes later. ESPN guy said lane violation was blatant. Tyler Lewis obvious goal tending not called. Howell with the ridic phantom over the back call. Eric Green taking 6 steps to the basket in front of everybody. Not to mention the craziest one to me was reversing a Zo Brown three to a two with absolutely no evidence to do so. I just wonder how these guys are graded by CLougherty and Swofford? We are the only team in the history of the ACC that gets zero benefit of a homecourt. We dont get 50/50 calls. Hell we dont get 80/20 calls. Its sad that I cant wait to get to the NCAA tournament so I can watch a game thats officiated well. AD's Influence with Chancellor's backing wake-up call. Once a wolf, always a wolf.
Last edited 2/16/2013 7:35 PM by wolfwarrior
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Posted: 2/16/2013 7:40 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
BSPack wrote: Why is no one talking about the ILLEGAL VT missed FT tip in play at the end of regulation???? The announcers and ESPN studio guys keep talking about the illegal play. Was it just not as obvious? If you listen to ESPN color guy, he agrees with the call, calling it a "good call"! ESPN: Play by play: Carter Blackburn Color: Fran FraschillaOfficials: Mikes Edes, Tim Nestor, Gary MaxwellOnce a wolf, always a wolf.
Last edited 2/16/2013 7:43 PM by wolfwarrior
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:14 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
BSPack wrote: Why is no one talking about the ILLEGAL VT missed FT tip in play at the end of regulation???? The announcers and ESPN studio guys keep talking about the illegal play. Was it just not as obvious? It's pretty clear to me that the refs didn't know the rules on that one. It's a free throw - there is only a few places you have to look. As bad as that call was, I think the Howell one takes the cake. The Zo three pointer made two pointer was bad, the travel was bad, the mugging CJ got down low a couple of times were bad, the double dribble was bad and Wood should have had to And 1's threes. Amazes me how we get shafted on calls in the PNC arena. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:26 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
toddl wrote: I'm not sure how you guys are counting 6 steps.
3, definitely. 4 borderline. Travel, absolutely. 6, no way. Just think how awesome Hans-Blew would have been if he had this many steps... I mean they usuually cut him off at two with an occasional 2-1/2 or 3 stepper. Not sure it was six but I am thinking four. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:34 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
DaHarpoon wrote:
toddl wrote: I'm not sure how you guys are counting 6 steps.
3, definitely. 4 borderline. Travel, absolutely. 6, no way. Just think how awesome Hans-Blew would have been if he had this many steps... I mean they usuually cut him off at two with an occasional 2-1/2 or 3 stepper. Not sure it was six but I am thinking four. The carry was part of the first 2 steps.
"it's a school issue, not basketball"
"they did the work that was asked of them"
- Roy Williams |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:44 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
PackFMM wrote:
ScoobyWolf wrote:
WaffleIron wrote: Where's the youtube of Green's walk? Pretty sure he took 4-5 steps from half court to the hoop and still missed it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0jg2t-8tQI Wow, that is one for the books there. Lol. I kept waiting for the shot to go up. That is comedy gold right there. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:49 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I think I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't excusing Green's horrendous travel. I was just trying to point out that the refs did a bad job of officiating. For both teams...bad officiating like what we saw is inexcusable whether it benifits us or not. --------------------------------------------- --- wolfchicEE wrote: ScottyGPackfan wrote: One bad call, I noticed, actually favored us. It was near the end of regulation and the ball was inbounded to brown who took a couple steps before he even started dribbling. Now nobody was near him so the refs probably thought it was no big deal but it was definitely a travel. Granted refs miss things. They may miss a step or two. It happens. Sometimes helps us. Sometimes hurts us. But how can you excuse missing SIX steps? If that isn't an indicment of how HORRIBLE the reffing profession has become, I don't know what is. --------------------------------------------- |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:00 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I'm watching the replay since I missed the game.
14:25 1st: Leslie called for goaltending, but the ball was below the rim and was going to be a clear miss. Is that indeed GT?
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:09 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
so library why don't you articulate what these rumors are man instead of throwing crap against the wall. I saw a team that gave away a game in regulation in some odd circumstances, but had the fortitude to win it OT.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:12 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
9:11 1st: Nobody touched Green, but he got the and-1.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:15 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I this the phantom foul on Howell, foul #2 on him? Video? SoonerWolf wrote: 9:11 1st: Nobody touched Green, but he got the and-1. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:20 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
Massive walking call that was not made. We are extremely lucky to come out with a win. Just glad the the Pack bench and the players did not blow a cork and get in real trouble with the zebras shouting. Dear Lord, what a mess. ScoobyWolf wrote:
WaffleIron wrote: Where's the youtube of Green's walk? Pretty sure he took 4-5 steps from half court to the hoop and still missed it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0jg2t-8tQI |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:25 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
packisbacknow wrote: I this the phantom foul on Howell, foul #2 on him? Video?
SoonerWolf wrote: 9:11 1st: Nobody touched Green, but he got the and-1. Was either on Purvis or Wood, didn't catch who.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:26 PM
Re: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
I just don't see how all three refs missed that 6 step walk. I'm not complaining about it because I think they were out to get us, or that it was a key non-call that screwed us..... It's just I am HONESTLY confused how that can be missed or not called.
It's not like it was borderline.
It's not like it was a fast bang-bang play.
It's not like it was the end where people defend them swallowing their whistle. Like I said I am honestly confused about how 3 refs can miss that.
What are they looking at?
Why would they not call it?
"it's a school issue, not basketball"
"they did the work that was asked of them"
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:27 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
4:02 1st: Howell called for a foul on what would normally be a no-call (hand-check). Duke does MUCH worse....
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:28 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
3:42 1st: #11 VT should have been called for a reach-in on Purvis. Leslie followed the miss with a dunk.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:34 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
ncstate00 wrote:
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--- DeltaWolf wrote:
As long as the swoff is in power....deal with it. The refs will always be biased for the cheats and against the Pack. And he will remain silent on the whole cesspool in chapel hill.
---------------------------------------------
You can't have biased against a team that shot 43 free throws to the other teams 7. That is not the problem, the problem is that the ineptitude that sent it into OT. The game should have ended....period. The fact that the game went on for 5 more minutes where we could have lost the game we had already legally won, or one of our players could have been injured etc,. It's not that we were not ahead in foul differential, it's those 1-3 calls that the gross ineptitude rears it's head, most of the time at our expense. Life long Wolfpack Fan....Alumni Class of 1989
The Wolves are on The Road.
It was here first-"ANYA FACE!" 11/16/2012
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:38 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
6 seconds 1st: Scott Wood held multiple times, no call. Brown fouled on final shot, no call.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:53 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
--------------------------------------------- --- ScoobyWolf wrote: WaffleIron wrote: Where's the youtube of Green's walk? Pretty sure he took 4-5 steps from half court to the hoop and still missed it www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0jg2t-8tQI--------------------------------------------- It doesn't get much worse than that |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:01 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
wolfchicEE wrote:
DaHarpoon wrote:
toddl wrote: I'm not sure how you guys are counting 6 steps.
3, definitely. 4 borderline. Travel, absolutely. 6, no way. Just think how awesome Hans-Blew would have been if he had this many steps... I mean they usuually cut him off at two with an occasional 2-1/2 or 3 stepper. Not sure it was six but I am thinking four. The carry was part of the first 2 steps. I always wondered about the rule on that. In terms of the traveling - the rule is that they start counting steps when the person stops dribbling - and the "stop" of dribbling is when they catch the ball after the last dribble. So like toddl says - he may have taken 6 steps from when he let go of the ball on the last dribble, but he only took 3-4 steps from when he stopped dribbling - i.e. he caught it. Still a travel. So here's the thing - what's to keep a player from in essence just "passing to themselves" by taking one huge dribble - potentially down half the whole court even - or even the whole court? It's not palming if their hand doesn't go under the ball. It's not traveling since the "number of steps" doesn't count until they get possession of the ball after the dribble. Can you "pass to yourself" (as a violation) on a dribble? If so - what's the criteria? And why isn't it ever called? This is something you see players doing more and more of these days - taking lots of "steps per dribble", such that they can cover tons of distance on just a single dribble. Seems like a rule change, or perhaps clarification and/or tightening, is in order.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:03 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
SoonerWolf wrote: I'm watching the replay since I missed the game.
14:25 1st: Leslie called for goaltending, but the ball was below the rim and was going to be a clear miss. Is that indeed GT? I was wondering about that one, and was wishing they showed it from a different angle. Obviously Leslie knew it would be a goaltend if it was truly headed for the basket. Seems to me like it was probably headed way off to the side, and he grabbed it as a "rebound" of what would have probably been an airball. However it was hard to tell from that angle.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:15 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
12:33 2nd: Howell "body" foul. IMO it would have been a no-call in most instances.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:28 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
8:13 2nd: Leslie was raked by #31 on the shot. No call. Leslie protests, gets a technical.
To be fair, #31 probably shielded the contact from the ref that eventually called the tech. Still, it means the ref was out of position.
"Here... we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf."
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:31 PM
RE: Video of the foul on Howell on the rebound
VPI did not utilize the Duke moving pick.....they used their hands to block the trailing defender.....blatantly. They were called for it once and did it at least 50 times; up to 3-4-5 on some plays.
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