hunwolf wrote: I had to LOL a bit when people complained that we didn't get many turnovers out of the press.

That type of press is designed to change the tempo of the game and force and offense's hand. Plus, it tends to energize your team.

Turnovers are a bonus but not necessarily the goal.

Agreed a 1-3-1-1 type of press would used to generate TOs.
But we did get a few key TOs from that press.

Lots of teams play with 7 guys and certainly an 8th for a couple of minutes and manage to play much better defense than we do. You don't need a 9 or 10 guy rotation to play sound defense ... a bit ridiculous of an argument. Never heard of a coach coaching down effort.

I agree that the defense is a little concerning. However I am not convinced it is the problem some of you think it is. My mind might change on that as the situation evolves.

StateFan2001 wrote: Lots of teams play with 7 guys and certainly an 8th for a couple of minutes and manage to play much better defense than we do. You don't need a 9 or 10 guy rotation to play sound defense ... a bit ridiculous of an argument. Never heard of a coach coaching down effort.

This is where my "who's officiating" the game argument comes into play.....tendecies ya know.

StateFan2001 wrote: Lots of teams play with 7 guys and certainly an 8th for a couple of minutes and manage to play much better defense than we do. You don't need a 9 or 10 guy rotation to play sound defense ... a bit ridiculous of an argument. Never heard of a coach coaching down effort.

I think what people are saying is that sure, other teams play 7-8 guys, but 9 & 10 are still able to give you minutes if needed.  Duke has multiple 4 and 5-star players sitting there to sub in if needed.  We have Vandenburg.

Whether or not the coaches coach it or not, I have no idea...but I'm sure the players realize how important it is that they be on the court the whole game and not in foul trouble....and I'm sure it does, in some way, affect their aggressiveness.

StateFan2001 wrote: Lots of teams play with 7 guys and certainly an 8th for a couple of minutes and manage to play much better defense than we do. You don't need a 9 or 10 guy rotation to play sound defense ... a bit ridiculous of an argument. Never heard of a coach coaching down effort.

Again - it's not a matter of wanting 7 man rotations - it's a matter of those teams having options if they get in trouble.  Options we DO NOT HAVE.  

If Duke gets in trouble, they bring in Alex Murphy as their 8th man, a guy ranked in the top 50 in the country out of high school.  

If we have to bring in our 8th man, it's a 7 footer who might not be among the top 50 7 footers in the Raleigh area right now.  

It's not coaching down effort.  It's coaching to protect against fouls.  Yes, it is a "hand up, hope they miss" style in the first half.   And yes, I believe that is coached.

If you can guarantee Gott before the game that no matter how aggressive they are, none of his top 7 will foul out, we'd have a very, very different defensive effort I believe.

The defense was better but we still had moments in which we didn't communicate on a switch or find shooters in transition. 
VT didn't shoot well but they got too many ORbs and made some really tough shots. 
The thing I wish would change is that the guys are still allowing the other team's big-men to catch the ball too deep inside. 
The game really wasn't close. Had the officials called the game fairly we win by double digits. 
Leslie was getting raked across the arms whenever he didn't score. Vt couldn't guard him. 
Both he and Rodney were pushed on fastbreaks. 
The call on Howell should trigger an investigation into that ref's banking accts. 
The 2-2-1 press after FTs was a good call. Should have kept doing it. 

As I have said the entire year, when Leslie decides to concentrate and when the guys decide to play team D, they will flourish just like last year.

CJL's problem is that he cares too much. That's a bad thing when you are State fan or player. It will tear you apart.

This.    We don't have a reputation as a "great defensive team" that allows us to get away with ticky tacky fouls.   If we played defence like duke, we'd have no players on the court mid way through the second half.   Not whining, just a fact.   It's fairly obvious to me that our players, with the exception of Wood who seems to get his money's worth, try hard to not foul on every defensive play.   That's not a recipe for great defence.

wolfpackernc wrote:

It's not coaching down effort.  It's coaching to protect against fouls.  Yes, it is a "hand up, hope they miss" style in the first half.   And yes, I believe that is coached.

If you can guarantee Gott before the game that no matter how aggressive they are, none of his top 7 will foul out, we'd have a very, very different defensive effort I believe.

hunwolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

PretzelPack wrote: During all of this, in the wins and the losses, I don't sense that we have handled the pressure very well as a team. CJ just has not been the guy who can take it on his shoulders and get it done in crunch time and that it what most of us truly desire. To have our best player be the go to guy when the game is on the line.

CJ has become our least reliable guy with the game on the line, and I really feel bad for the guy. He's obviously trying really hard to be THE GUY, but it's just not there.

CJ's issues seem pretty simple to me. He's decided for whatever reason to stop shooting the 12-15 footer that he's very good at. 

Because of that, teams are just laying off of him and he's driving right into a double team instead of taking what the teams are giving him.

AND THIS IS WHAT IRRITATES ME TO DEATH.

Calvin has a great stroke from this range, especially off the pass.  He's least effective if he catches it and then think about what he wants to do.  I think the kid just has it in his DNA from his WOG days that he has to immediately drive to the basket for a highlight play.   

In the old days, I would imagine a coach would have him run suicides everytime he passed up that shot for a more difficult one.  I know I would.  He has to be conditioned to know that's his money shot is within 12-15 feet.

grantwolf wrote:

StateFan2001 wrote: Lots of teams play with 7 guys and certainly an 8th for a couple of minutes and manage to play much better defense than we do. You don't need a 9 or 10 guy rotation to play sound defense ... a bit ridiculous of an argument. Never heard of a coach coaching down effort.

I think what people are saying is that sure, other teams play 7-8 guys, but 9 & 10 are still able to give you minutes if needed.  Duke has multiple 4 and 5-star players sitting there to sub in if needed.  We have Vandenburg.

Whether or not the coaches coach it or not, I have no idea...but I'm sure the players realize how important it is that they be on the court the whole game and not in foul trouble....and I'm sure it does, in some way, affect their aggressiveness.

I am sure that we look at Refs tendencies, because we know that they are imagining ours. As much as this is Bull Hockey, I'm sure that Gott and the asisstants look and see someone like a Valentine out there and say "Oh F," hey Richard you're gonna have to watch it. The big doosh is out there and you know he's looking atcha. Then Rich becomes tentative and isn't flowing and this causes him to play awkward and make mistakes and get called any way. Same goes for CJ.

We'd be better off to go out there and lay down the hammer and at least get our monies' worth.

MisterRee wrote:

hunwolf wrote: I had to LOL a bit when people complained that we didn't get many turnovers out of the press.

That type of press is designed to change the tempo of the game and force and offense's hand. Plus, it tends to energize your team.

Turnovers are a bonus but not necessarily the goal.

Agreed a 1-3-1-1 type of press would used to generate TOs.
But we did get a few key TOs from that press.

Press forces them to lose 10-15 seconds of possession time. Forcing them to run their offense quicker while slowing the game down.  It resulted in a A LOT of bad shots by VT.

PackFan89 wrote: This.    We don't have a reputation as a "great defensive team" that allows us to get away with ticky tacky fouls.   If we played defence like duke, we'd have no players on the court mid way through the second half.   Not whining, just a fact.   It's fairly obvious to me that our players, with the exception of Wood who seems to get his money's worth, try hard to not foul on every defensive play.   That's not a recipe for great defence.

wolfpackernc wrote:

It's not coaching down effort.  It's coaching to protect against fouls.  Yes, it is a "hand up, hope they miss" style in the first half.   And yes, I believe that is coached.

If you can guarantee Gott before the game that no matter how aggressive they are, none of his top 7 will foul out, we'd have a very, very different defensive effort I believe.

UNC game says hello. Played great Defense in the first half, game out playing hard in the 2nd. Got tired, UNC went on a run.

A lot of the debate seems to be about Coach Gottfried's ability, or lack of, to coach defense and his team's inability to play it on a consistent basis.

You have posters like Wolfpackernc who is arguing that personnel issues are the reason the defense is not as good even though it's widely known defense is not his forte. 

Then you have a few posters like Bryanth1a (me), who think it's just not a big part of who Gott is.  Also, based on his time at 'Bama and comments from that school's fanbase, he's never been a coach who stressed great defense.   

I think the happy medium is for those like Wolfpackernc to understand Gott's defensive shortcomings has little to do with personnel weaknesses or shortages.  Sound, fundamental defense can be played by anyone if drilled properly and held accountable for their missed assignments. 

Those like myself, and I fully understand and accept this...Gott doesn't have to coach defense like a Bobby Knight or Tony Bennett to be a very good coach or for State to be very successful.  His offensive philosophy allows him room for error, so to speak.  When he starts having problems on the offfensive end, that's when we're in BIG, BIG TROUBLE.  

Do I expect his defense to improve from what it is now?  Hell yeah, because sometimes it's downright terrible.  There are many times when the Pack violates every defensive principle in the book.  But I'll never expect State to be a lock-down team and if there are some who is expecting that, you're setting yourselves up for failure.

I think 99 percent of the fanbase are thrilled with where this program is at right now.  We're heading towards a two-year stretch that a lot of Pack Pride posters have never seen before.  Still, it doesn't mean everyone should keep quiet when they recognize areas of Pack basketball that can or should be improved.

MisterRee wrote: Miami barely beat Clemson. Can someone tell them good teams do not struggle against bad teams?
'K thanx

If we were 12-0 in the ACC and ranked in the top 10, very few would be complaining about close games.

Losing Jefferson to Duke and DeThaey at the start of the year has thrown a monkey wrench in the staff's plans for this year.  I think we counted on both of those guys to be in our rotation, and if they are, Vandy doesn't even see the court.  That would've added two more guys in the paint to spell Leslie and Howell.  Both were sorely needed.

Since then, we've only had six serviceable players until Lewis stepped up.

I can partially buy the theory that Gott's emphasizing them not to get in early foul trouble and to play a little more passive in the first half.  But then we have games like Duke, Carolina, Miami and Virginia where I thought we came out aggressive from the very start.  So I'm not sure if that theory jives with me.

I'm still of the mindset that it's a mixture of two things:  1) Gott is not a defensive-minded coach.  He's more of the Roy Williams mold, and 2) Our upperclassmen -- Leslie, Brown and Howell -- are not vocal enough on the court.  None of them are take charge guys and vocal leaders for the younger players on our team, although I have seem some improvement in this from Brown throughout the year.

I think the combination of all these things is a recipe for where we are today, which is a good, not great, ballclub, and unfortunate victims of all the preseason hype -- where expectations were over-inflated to begin with.

LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote:

hunwolf wrote: If a State fan is upset with mediocrity then they need to start eating at Ruth Chris or Cattlemans instead of taking their dates to Lonestar.

That's why you guys are single and whiny.

Lonestar is underrated

I LIKE Lonestar.

PackDynasty wrote: Losing Jefferson to Duke and DeThaey at the start of the year has thrown a monkey wrench in the staff's plans for this year.  I think we counted on both of those guys to be in our rotation, and if they are, Vandy doesn't even see the court.  That would've added two more guys in the paint to spell Leslie and Howell.  Both were sorely needed.

Since then, we've only had six serviceable players until Lewis stepped up.

I can partially buy the theory that Gott's emphasizing them not to get in early foul trouble and to play a little more passive in the first half.  But then we have games like Duke, Carolina, Miami and Virginia where I thought we came out aggressive from the very start.  So I'm not sure if that theory jives with me.

I'm still of the mindset that it's a mixture of two things:  1) Gott is not a defensive-minded coach.  He's more of the Roy Williams mold, and 2) Our upperclassmen -- Leslie, Brown and Howell -- are not vocal enough on the court.  None of them are take charge guys and vocal leaders for the younger players on our team, although I have seem some improvement in this from Brown throughout the year.

I think the combination of all these things is a recipe for where we are today, which is a good, not great, ballclub, and unfortunate victims of all the preseason hype -- where expectations were over-inflated to begin with.

I disagree.  No competent coaching staff is going to make plans to have a kid (Jefferson) in their rotation when he's not even signed a LOI; that's ridiculous. 

As far as TDT, Gott pretty much made it known he wasn't going to be in the rotation.  Even after TDT had some respectable appearances, the kid sat on the bench for consecutive games even when the Pack was playing against out-manned competition.  IMO, Gott mismanaged that situation.

Otter74 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Miami barely beat Clemson. Can someone tell them good teams do not struggle against bad teams?
'K thanx

If we were 12-0 in the ACC and ranked in the top 10, very few would be complaining about close games.

Do you have any metrics to back that up? 

badweatherpackfan wrote:

LiveWolvesinUnitards wrote:

hunwolf wrote: If a State fan is upset with mediocrity then they need to start eating at Ruth Chris or Cattlemans instead of taking their dates to Lonestar.

That's why you guys are single and whiny.

Lonestar is underrated

I LIKE Lonestar.

I'm not going back to find the original post, so I'll just quote this.  I'm getting tired of the OP compare us to mediocre/poor restaurants.  Should we not expect to be better?

IMO, the poor defense is basically caused by us having to play a 6'6" center and a 6' 7" bean pole at the power forward. We get beat off the dribble and there really isn't anyone back to strike fear in you. I dont know the stats now but we seem to guard the perimeter shots pretty well this year overall.

We have utilized the zone very well at times in crucial parts of the game.We have glaring weaknesses (Anyone can shoot over Lewis, TJW as a freshman shies away from contact when guarding the 4 etc etc)  but damn  the object of the game is to score more points than the opponent. We do on most nights

hunwolf wrote: CJL's problem is that he cares too much. That's a bad thing when you are State fan or player. It will tear you apart.

Why do you say that hun? I think the exact opposite; in that he doesn't seem to care enough and seems aloof a lot of times on the court. Almost like a Randy Moss who is known to take 'plays off' on a few occasions.

Also, and it may have been brought up earlier, I think the guys fail to play as a team on plenty of occasions. I can't count the number of times I've seen Leslie, Warren, or Purvis on a fast break and choose to go 1 on 3 when there are clearly open players running the lane or on the kick out for a quick 3.

Loucouldcoach wrote: IMO, the poor defense is basically caused by us having to play a 6'6" center and a 6' 7" bean pole at the power forward. We get beat off the dribble and there really isn't anyone back to strike fear in you. I dont know the stats now but we seem to guard the perimeter shots pretty well this year overall.

We have utilized the zone very well at times in crucial parts of the game.We have glaring weaknesses (Anyone can shoot over Lewis, TJW as a freshman shies away from contact when guarding the 4 etc etc)  but damn  the object of the game is to score more points than the opponent. We do on most nights

While it's true a lot of guards can shoot over Lewis on the perimeter I still think you have to go zone when he's in. We've seen in a few games now that when Lewis is in the game his man immediately goes to the post and posts him up. Lewis has absolutely no chance in this situation. At least if we are in zone Lewis can stay in the guys face and make it a tough shot attempt as opposed to being forced to foul or give up an easy layup.

Bryanth1a wrote:

PackDynasty wrote: Losing Jefferson to Duke and DeThaey at the start of the year has thrown a monkey wrench in the staff's plans for this year.  I think we counted on both of those guys to be in our rotation, and if they are, Vandy doesn't even see the court.  That would've added two more guys in the paint to spell Leslie and Howell.  Both were sorely needed.

Since then, we've only had six serviceable players until Lewis stepped up.

I can partially buy the theory that Gott's emphasizing them not to get in early foul trouble and to play a little more passive in the first half.  But then we have games like Duke, Carolina, Miami and Virginia where I thought we came out aggressive from the very start.  So I'm not sure if that theory jives with me.

I'm still of the mindset that it's a mixture of two things:  1) Gott is not a defensive-minded coach.  He's more of the Roy Williams mold, and 2) Our upperclassmen -- Leslie, Brown and Howell -- are not vocal enough on the court.  None of them are take charge guys and vocal leaders for the younger players on our team, although I have seem some improvement in this from Brown throughout the year.

I think the combination of all these things is a recipe for where we are today, which is a good, not great, ballclub, and unfortunate victims of all the preseason hype -- where expectations were over-inflated to begin with.

I disagree.  No competent coaching staff is going to make plans to have a kid (Jefferson) in their rotation when he's not even signed a LOI; that's ridiculous. 

As far as TDT, Gott pretty much made it known he wasn't going to be in the rotation.  Even after TDT had some respectable appearances, the kid sat on the bench for consecutive games even when the Pack was playing against out-manned competition.  IMO, Gott mismanaged that situation.

Just when I thought you put the TDT underwear away....you go and do this....and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!!

ResidentPack wrote:

hunwolf wrote: CJL's problem is that he cares too much. That's a bad thing when you are State fan or player. It will tear you apart.

Why do you say that hun? I think the exact opposite; in that he doesn't seem to care enough and seems aloof a lot of times on the court. Almost like a Randy Moss who is known to take 'plays off' on a few occasions.

CJ/Calvin was the Jim Valvano Award winner on last year's team, and the David Thompson Award co-winner along with Zo.

--Valvano Award:  Given to the player whose performance expresses the highest level of team loyalty, dedication to his school, and an attitude and spirit that inspires his teammates to never give up.

--Thompson:  Given to the player who displayed exceptional skills, versatility, a high level of productivity and a winning attitude. 

I don't know if hunwolf is joking (sometimes it's hard to tell ) but from what I see CJ/Calvin is extremely competitive and cares about winning.

rswilli2 wrote:

wolfpackernc wrote: I'm not in any way implying we are a perfect defensive team.  But I've seen us play pretty damn good defense from time to time so I know it is possible.  That, to me, implies there are reasons we don't do it 40 minutes a game.  Part of it is effort/focus but I truly believe part of it is intentional to keep our guys out of foul trouble (and, to some extent, rested).

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to agree with you. Because there is no other good explanation for our ability to do it very well at times, and then just turn it off.

this makes a lot of sense.

jrmac67 wrote: I re-watched the game last night and was more impressed with the way our team kept their heads down and kept battling. They never once looked like they had any chance of quitting and they believed throughout that they would win the game.

This team is getting better and better. Adding Tyler to the rotation is going to be HUGE come March.

Also, I REALLY like the move to add in the "nuisance" 2-1 press. It doesn't require much energy, we got a couple steals out of it, and most importantly it sucked a few seconds out of their shot clock....helping our defense just a little. I'd love to see us continue that move.

Even though the refs blew that call that allowed VT to tie the game & force OT, this team just went back to work - like you wrote. Plenty of recent Pack teams would have folded & lost a game like that in OT.

Bryanth1a wrote:

PackDynasty wrote: Losing Jefferson to Duke and DeThaey at the start of the year has thrown a monkey wrench in the staff's plans for this year.  I think we counted on both of those guys to be in our rotation, and if they are, Vandy doesn't even see the court.  That would've added two more guys in the paint to spell Leslie and Howell.  Both were sorely needed.

Since then, we've only had six serviceable players until Lewis stepped up.

I can partially buy the theory that Gott's emphasizing them not to get in early foul trouble and to play a little more passive in the first half.  But then we have games like Duke, Carolina, Miami and Virginia where I thought we came out aggressive from the very start.  So I'm not sure if that theory jives with me.

I'm still of the mindset that it's a mixture of two things:  1) Gott is not a defensive-minded coach.  He's more of the Roy Williams mold, and 2) Our upperclassmen -- Leslie, Brown and Howell -- are not vocal enough on the court.  None of them are take charge guys and vocal leaders for the younger players on our team, although I have seem some improvement in this from Brown throughout the year.

I think the combination of all these things is a recipe for where we are today, which is a good, not great, ballclub, and unfortunate victims of all the preseason hype -- where expectations were over-inflated to begin with.

I disagree.  No competent coaching staff is going to make plans to have a kid (Jefferson) in their rotation when he's not even signed a LOI; that's ridiculous. 

As far as TDT, Gott pretty much made it known he wasn't going to be in the rotation.  Even after TDT had some respectable appearances, the kid sat on the bench for consecutive games even when the Pack was playing against out-manned competition.  IMO, Gott mismanaged that situation.

"Ridiculous?"  Maybe you should go back and reference the comments from the coaching staff when Amile announced for Duke.  I remember Hendu, and I'm paraphrasing here, saying that his decision took them "by complete surprise" and that we thought we "had him in the bag."  When you think you're in that position with a guy of his caliber what does it mean?  Well, it means you put off recruiting another big man, for one, since Amile's announcement came so late in the recruiting season.

It's only "ridiculous" to bank on someone who hasn't signed a LOI if you're unsure if you're going to land said player.  The entire time we were recruiting Amile we were listed as his favorite. 

As far as TDT--Tyler Lewis also sat the bench for the first half of the season, and he's now getting plenty of minutes.  TDT wouldn't have?  I thought that Gott should've given DeThaey more minutes earlier in the season, but to think he couldn't have given us some much needed minutes against the bigger and more physical teams on our schedule (the Miamis, Virginias, Marylands, etc) then I'm in severe disagreement with you.  There's no way that Vandy sees minutes in those games if DeThaey is still around.

Not playing defense because of foul trouble is certainly interesting. But then, it makes you wonder why we don't have the depth to account for it.

BlackRazor wrote:

jrmac67 wrote: I re-watched the game last night and was more impressed with the way our team kept their heads down and kept battling. They never once looked like they had any chance of quitting and they believed throughout that they would win the game.

This team is getting better and better. Adding Tyler to the rotation is going to be HUGE come March.

Also, I REALLY like the move to add in the "nuisance" 2-1 press. It doesn't require much energy, we got a couple steals out of it, and most importantly it sucked a few seconds out of their shot clock....helping our defense just a little. I'd love to see us continue that move.

Even though the refs blew that call that allowed VT to tie the game & force OT, this team just went back to work - like you wrote. Plenty of recent Pack teams would have folded & lost a game like that in OT.

That's probably true. What's frustrating is that we should never have been in that position in the first place against a very bad VT team.

ArmandJ wrote: Not playing defense because of foul trouble is certainly interesting. But then, it makes you wonder why we don't have the depth to account for it.

You wonder why we don't have depth?

defensive statistics -ACC games only - that's what we're bitching about right...

11th - scoring defense. product of how we play. the '09 UNC national championship team was          also 11th in the conference in this category. product of how they played.

FG% D - 6th. not great. not awful. Duke and Carolina are worse. Miami is shining in this stat.

3pt FG% D- 4th. to hear posters here, you'd think we were at the bottom.

steals/TO's - 10th in both. now, this is a problem. active hands. has been for a while. this is where Duke excels and always has under K. depending on the personnel of any given year, they really, really, excel at this.

we're not a bad defensive team - we're just OK. as much as anything(other than the active hands thing) it's a product of philosophy. much like Roy, Gott wants to outscore you.

now, if you really wanna look at something, and it ain't D. look at the teams we're looking up at in 3-pt FG's made per game. they have shooters. without Wood, i shudder to think at where we'd be. that's gonna be a BIG TIME problem looking forward. Gott is recruiting guys with lots of stars beside their name, but i ain't seeing any shooters.

grantwolf wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: Not playing defense because of foul trouble is certainly interesting. But then, it makes you wonder why we don't have the depth to account for it.

You wonder why we don't have depth?

lol - OMG!!!!!

ResidentPack wrote:

BlackRazor wrote:

jrmac67 wrote: I re-watched the game last night and was more impressed with the way our team kept their heads down and kept battling. They never once looked like they had any chance of quitting and they believed throughout that they would win the game.

This team is getting better and better. Adding Tyler to the rotation is going to be HUGE come March.

Also, I REALLY like the move to add in the "nuisance" 2-1 press. It doesn't require much energy, we got a couple steals out of it, and most importantly it sucked a few seconds out of their shot clock....helping our defense just a little. I'd love to see us continue that move.

Even though the refs blew that call that allowed VT to tie the game & force OT, this team just went back to work - like you wrote. Plenty of recent Pack teams would have folded & lost a game like that in OT.

That's probably true. What's frustrating is that we should never have been in that position in the first place against a very bad VT team.

I agree, they always want to make things more dramatic than needed but I'm happy they find ways to win these games. State has a history of blowing games like these & I'm talking about the 2 coaches prior to Gott too.

grantwolf wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: Not playing defense because of foul trouble is certainly interesting. But then, it makes you wonder why we don't have the depth to account for it.

You wonder why we don't have depth?

The efforts of the previous coaching staff are taxing the current staff.

Stats often hide the truth. 
We all know that we have been lucky in that teams have missed a lot of open 3s against us. The 3pt FG% isn't because we have challenged almost every shot. 
When the team decides to talk on D and spend the energy it takes to play team D, then they will win games comfortably.

Waitingwolf wrote: Stats often hide the truth. 
We all know that we have been lucky in that teams have missed a lot of open 3s against us. The 3pt FG% isn't because we have challenged almost every shot. 
When the team decided to talk on D and spend the energy it takes to play team D, then they will win games comfortably.

Are you saying that our opponents should get credit for missed shots? Maybe they should get 1 point for a missed 3pointer if it was "open"?

Are you really that dense?

Lat in the game, we left one of their guys wide open and he missed. Was that great D on our part?

Waitingwolf wrote: Are you really that dense?

Lat in the game, we left one of their guys wide open and he missed. Was that great D on our part?

Anyone can point to individual times a shooter is open but "luck" is not a factor when you are looking over a whole season.

grantwolf wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: Not playing defense because of foul trouble is certainly interesting. But then, it makes you wonder why we don't have the depth to account for it.

You wonder why we don't have depth?

Yes, I wonder why a large amount of our players transferred last year and why we put all our eggs in the Amile basket for this year.  I'm sorry if I have questions.