seniorwolf60 wrote: I suspect UNC's future use of the words "exception" and "rogue" might call for serious explanation from agencies like SACS.

ProfessorWolf wrote:

BoxwoodWolf wrote: Can you imagine being an UNC Alumni, in a decent job at say BOA, and being told that the 2 AFAM classes you took as electives 8 years ago are bogus and your degree is now voided? What happens when HR finds out? What happens if you lose your job and put UNC on your resume, only to have your future employer unable to verify it? Wow...

I can't imagine a scenario where degrees are voided. What I can see is UNC offering no-cost continuing education courses in the academic area affected by the scandal. Now, ask yourself, how many affected alum will commit to do the work of a no-credit, free, continuing education course in AFAM? That is the real dilemma facing UNC.  SACS has said "we think you should make those degrees whole." Pretty sure SACS has a different definition for the words "we think" than UNC in that to SACS it means "you shall." So how does UNC make the degrees whole when they have neither carrots nor sticks available to entice already-graduated students back into the classroom. How do they do this without an explosion of lawsuits?

Honestly, they are plowing new ground here... I don't think case study exists for how to work your way out of this situation. It will be trial and error, back and forth negotiations with SACS. I think a likely scenario is UNC proposes one thing, and asks SACS "is that enough?" to which SACS will reply NO (UNC is dealing with academic purists now and those purists have said FIX IT!).  So UNC has to go back and try something new. Eventually they will find something that will appease SACS, but make no mistake, SACS has the upperhand. Why? They control accreditation and not being accredited by SACS is really not an option of UNC.

With the recent SACS letter, this thing has publicly reached a new level of stink. There is no putting the peel back on the rotten onion now, so they are left to deal with a mess their lack of attention created. For too long UNC trusted all was well, when in fact, the prudent thing to do is periodically check the kitchen pantry for anything putrid.  Their biggest problem as I see it is the lack of oversight from the top down. The University should be keeping tabs on the college and the college keeping tabs on the departments. Given the apparent lack of oversight that existed, it is amazing their issues hadn't spread to other departments/colleges. Bottomline, much of this could have been caught by just looking. Annual and post tenure review policies should be in place for a reason... fuzzy apples and sprouted onions should be tossed before they become a mess.

Big picture as to how the AFAM scandal will affect all of campus in the long-term (gotta' think beyond next month and next year):

• UNC will have a difficult time satisfying SACS, although they eventually will. 
• SACS will have them under a more watchful eye for years to come. 
• Academic freedom that give faculty freedom to teach as they see fit will be restricted in order to devise a system more easily monitored and reported back to  SACS.
• Faculty will be pissed as life gets tougher across all of campus.
• Athletics suffer under the watchful eye...
• Average Joe Student suffers under the watchful eye...
• There will be a greatly reduced number of committee cases for admissions, even for that stellar piano player you want in the music department. 
• There will be more academic casualties across the board (athlete and non-athlete).
• Grade inflation will decline as tougher external and internal questions are asked about the rigor of courses. SACS is already asking about the amount of work necessary for a 3-credit class.
• Alum affected by the "make it whole" issue reduce monetary contributions to the university (assuming the don't sue the university first).
• Alum embarrassed by this mess reduce monetary contributions to the university (already mentioned earlier this week I know one "wealthy" family that has severed ties).
• Alum serving on boards/foundations resign in protest (yes, this has already happened).

Treyvon wrote: OMG, I am dying laughing here:

CornbreadandCollards All-American 16612 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | Report Posted: Today 8:57 AM Re: Accreditors: UNC Out of Compliance in Fraud Case... - And yet there are folks who still defend him based on their view of his "unprecedented" ability to bring in research dollars. There are a few folks on the ZZL who actually have argued that he has been an above average chancellor based on his fund-raising abilities. I'll tell everyone a secret: Thorpe may have broken a couple annual records with his fund-raising, but so has every chancellor for nearly every year that preceded him. That is what you would have expected. Thorp(e) can't leave soon enough. He is an incredibly poor leader who lacks the spine to stand up to those who would wish harm against this university. Transparence has value up to a point, but past that, a leader has to draw the line and say this is ridiculous, there is no longer value in doing this investigation. There are some who feel that we never should have attempted to be transparent given what they anticipated would transpire due to this and they have been shown to be right the whole time. Honesty is NOT always the best policy and allowing total access the way that he has done has NOT been the right approach. I hope folks learn from his mistakes otherwise we will be doomed to repeat them at some point in the future.

Treyvon wrote: OMG, I am dying laughing here:

CornbreadandCollards All-American 16612 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | ReportPosted: Today 8:57 AM Re: Accreditors: UNC Out of Compliance in Fraud Case... - And yet there are folks who still defend him based on their view of his "unprecedented" ability to bring in research dollars. There are a few folks on the ZZL who actually have argued that he has been an above average chancellor based on his fund-raising abilities. I'll tell everyone a secret: Thorpe may have broken a couple annual records with his fund-raising, but so has every chancellor for nearly every year that preceded him. That is what you would have expected. Thorp(e) can't leave soon enough. He is an incredibly poor leader who lacks the spine to stand up to those who would wish harm against this university. Transparence has value up to a point, but past that, a leader has to draw the line and say this is ridiculous, there is no longer value in doing this investigation. There are some who feel that we never should have attempted to be transparent given what they anticipated would transpire due to this and they have been shown to be right the whole time. Honesty is NOT always the best policy and allowing total access the way that he has done has NOT been the right approach. I hope folks learn from his mistakes otherwise we will be doomed to repeat them at some point in the future.

Treyvon wrote: Does anyone know about this? Will the Sacs review make this bit of info even worse?

HoomanBeing Recruit 4 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | Report Posted: Today 11:35 AM Re: Accreditors: UNC Out of Compliance in Fraud Case... As an aside, we're under a warning issued by the Southern Association due to the attempted coup d'etat against President Sullivan.

NOVAwolf wrote:

Treyvon wrote: Does anyone know about this? Will the Sacs review make this bit of info even worse?

HoomanBeing Recruit 4 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | Report Posted: Today 11:35 AM Re: Accreditors: UNC Out of Compliance in Fraud Case... As an aside, we're under a warning issued by the Southern Association due to the attempted coup d'etat against President Sullivan.

That was at UVA

wolfgar wrote:

GoHeelsWeeehoooo All-American 30266 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | Report Posted: Today 2:41 PM RE: how concerned should we be about SACS? i thought a small number of classes had improper grade changes or something

TruthBKnownReturns wrote:

wolfgar wrote:

GoHeelsWeeehoooo All-American 30266 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | Report Posted: Today 2:41 PM RE: how concerned should we be about SACS? i thought a small number of classes had improper grade changes or something

Evidence that Carolina's PR team and the Martin whitewash report are achieving their intended purposes, respectively.

If people don't know better than this, it is because they don't WANT to know better than this. SMH

19pack76 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- grantwolf wrote:

Treyvon wrote: OMG, I am dying laughing here:

CornbreadandCollards All-American 16612 posts this site Ignore this Member Send Private Message

Nominate | ReportPosted: Today 8:57 AM Re: Accreditors: UNC Out of Compliance in Fraud Case... - And yet there are folks who still defend him based on their view of his "unprecedented" ability to bring in research dollars. There are a few folks on the ZZL who actually have argued that he has been an above average chancellor based on his fund-raising abilities. I'll tell everyone a secret: Thorpe may have broken a couple annual records with his fund-raising, but so has every chancellor for nearly every year that preceded him. That is what you would have expected. Thorp(e) can't leave soon enough. He is an incredibly poor leader who lacks the spine to stand up to those who would wish harm against this university. Transparence has value up to a point, but past that, a leader has to draw the line and say this is ridiculous, there is no longer value in doing this investigation. There are some who feel that we never should have attempted to be transparent given what they anticipated would transpire due to this and they have been shown to be right the whole time. Honesty is NOT always the best policy and allowing total access the way that he has done has NOT been the right approach. I hope folks learn from his mistakes otherwise we will be doomed to repeat them at some point in the future.

They really are in their own little world over there.

---------------------------------------------

Yeah. Even Nixon knew he was breaking the law. This fella=Clueless.

UNC-CL*

Truth is fleeting

Recently, the UNC board of governors released a statement on the athletic and academic scandals at UNC-CH. The gist of the statement said, “while we realize questions around the scandal remain unanswered, we believe further investigation would be unproductive.”

Revelations have emerged in this saga for over two years now, highlighted recently by the flimsy report of former Gov. Jim Martin and the auditing firm Baker Tilly. Even Baker Tilly has since back-tracked on claims in Martin’s report. Yet UNC is eager to embrace it as gospel. A rush to accept, despite its lack of rigor and quality, feels desperate and pre-planned.

Given all the unanswered questions and with the outcome of the SBI investigation still unknown, why close the book? Former N.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Burley Mitchell recently asserted, “No way all of this fraud was planned and executed for a decade by just two people.”

Treyvon wrote:

packphinsfan wrote: This has got to be (for them) like just finding out there is an iceberg dead ahead, and nothing you can do.

Treyvon wrote: Its on IC now with this article from the UNC General Alumni Association:

http://alumni.unc.edu/article.aspx?sid=9442

If the Alumni wasn't informed before, they sure are now. This will not end well. I can't imagine the calls to UNC* from Alumni they are getting over this.

JKReading wrote: For the guys that are getting all excited about SACS coming to town and how they aren't going to mess around:

NCAA - The NCAA is going to fry them for this.
Mark Armstrong - He's the only one asking questions. He isn't going to let this die.
Greg Doyel - The national media is on it now. UNC is in big trouble.
Judge Manning - He is not going to let them get away with this.
BOG - The real adults are getting involved now.
Ann Goodnight - She will absolutely get to the bottom of this.
Baker Tilly - They are a professional firm and they will find the dirt.
Jim Martin - His integrity is unquestionable. He will do a thorough investigation.
SBI - Jury still out.
SACS - Jury still out.

It has been an absolute joy watching the CHeats squirm, but they are a powerful bunch. I'm sure I missed a few that could join the list. Feel free to add if you'd like. I'm just saying my optimism has tempered over the last several months with the realization we only have a single journalist fighting for the good guys.

JKReading wrote: For the guys that are getting all excited about SACS coming to town and how they aren't going to mess around:

NCAA - The NCAA is going to fry them for this.
Mark Armstrong - He's the only one asking questions. He isn't going to let this die.
Greg Doyel - The national media is on it now. UNC is in big trouble.
Judge Manning - He is not going to let them get away with this.
BOG - The real adults are getting involved now.
Ann Goodnight - She will absolutely get to the bottom of this.
Baker Tilly - They are a professional firm and they will find the dirt.
Jim Martin - His integrity is unquestionable. He will do a thorough investigation.
SBI - Jury still out.
SACS - Jury still out.

It has been an absolute joy watching the CHeats squirm, but they are a powerful bunch. I'm sure I missed a few that could join the list. Feel free to add if you'd like. I'm just saying my optimism has tempered over the last several months with the realization we only have a single journalist fighting for the good guys.

gotohellunc wrote: Which IC Idiot do you think this guy is?

www.digtriad.com/news/local/ar...ex-With-Student

gotohellunc wrote: Which IC Idiot do you think this guy is?

www.digtriad.com/news/local/ar...ex-With-Student

Treyvon wrote:

gotohellunc wrote: Which IC Idiot do you think this guy is?

www.digtriad.com/news/local/ar...ex-With-Student

2nd Montgomery Co. Coach Charged For Sex With Student

EastChapelHill04Class wrote:

Treyvon wrote:

gotohellunc wrote: Which IC Idiot do you think this guy is?

www.digtriad.com/news/local/ar...ex-With-Student

2nd Montgomery Co. Coach Charged For Sex With Student

Always wondered who therabidrev was

WOLFDAC wrote: If something happens to the Heels that in fact "should" happen to them, I'm not sure they can take it. I envision people outside the Nose Dome in hysterics as the banners come down. I honestly fear for some of their lives if/when it all comes crashing down. The utter sense of denial is just mentally staggering.

biggoodwolf wrote: I wish I had confidence that the NCAA would get back on campus, but I don't think it will happen... for two reasons. 1) A thorough in-depth investigation is well beyond their capability, even if they wanted to conduct one. But more importantly, they know that a thorough investigation would uncover so much unethical and illegal activity by many in the athletics department that they would have no choice but to hand down the death penalty. And that is the last thing they want to happen.

biggoodwolf wrote: I wish I had confidence that the NCAA would get back on campus, but I don't think it will happen... for two reasons. 1) A thorough in-depth investigation is well beyond their capability, even if they wanted to conduct one. But more importantly, they know that a thorough investigation would uncover so much unethical and illegal activity by many in the athletics department that they would have no choice but to hand down the death penalty. And that is the last thing they want to happen.

seniorwolf60 wrote:

biggoodwolf wrote: I wish I had confidence that the NCAA would get back on campus, but I don't think it will happen... for two reasons. 1) A thorough in-depth investigation is well beyond their capability, even if they wanted to conduct one. But more importantly, they know that a thorough investigation would uncover so much unethical and illegal activity by many in the athletics department that they would have no choice but to hand down the death penalty. And that is the last thing they want to happen.

The only people other than the UNC faithful who just want this to go away quickly and quietly are the NCAA officials.

55blue wrote:

seniorwolf60 wrote:

biggoodwolf wrote: I wish I had confidence that the NCAA would get back on campus, but I don't think it will happen... for two reasons. 1) A thorough in-depth investigation is well beyond their capability, even if they wanted to conduct one. But more importantly, they know that a thorough investigation would uncover so much unethical and illegal activity by many in the athletics department that they would have no choice but to hand down the death penalty. And that is the last thing they want to happen.

The only people other than the UNC faithful who just want this to go away quickly and quietly are the NCAA officials.

And it is not going away anytime soon.
Maybe if this drags on almost another 2.5 years then enough will be uncovered that the NCAA will meet with UNC and UNC will negotiate getting PennStated instead of the death penalty.

Wufwuf1 wrote:

PackMan97 wrote:

RedLight wrote: 

The N&O has repeatedly asked for the student data in ways that would not identify an individual.  UNC absolutely refuses to do release anything claiming FERPA even when it does not apply.

Obviously they do not want to release this information because it would expose the scandal more fully and show that UNC has been lying from the get go.

I believe the issues is that a lot of the basketball data will run afoul of FERPA. If you say that 100% of the team is involved, well that just violated FERPA didn't it?

No, pure numbers would not show an answer to who specifically, unless they all were enrolled in the same class at the same time. I don't think attendance to a class would be covered by FERPA (as I understand it) only grades would be. Especially when many of these athletes outed themselves on twitter. Again, is a class admitted to be fraudulent covered at all by FERPA?

Caedmon wrote: And to think - this is the school that didn't want to let Virginia Tech in the conference because they thought their academics were not up to ACC standards. What snobs.

83grad wrote: I saw on TV tonight that ewe nc was installing condom dispensers on campus. Reportedly they will be installed next to the diploma dispensers

jimbo83 wrote:

83grad wrote: I saw on TV tonight that ewe nc was installing condom dispensers on campus. Reportedly they will be installed next to the diploma dispensers

Will the condom dispensers also be free?

Treyvon wrote:

jimbo83 wrote:

83grad wrote: I saw on TV tonight that ewe nc was installing condom dispensers on campus. Reportedly they will be installed next to the diploma dispensers

Will the condom dispensers also be free?

No, the condoms are .50 each.....more value than the diplomas.

seniorwolf60 wrote:

Treyvon wrote:

jimbo83 wrote:

83grad wrote: I saw on TV tonight that ewe nc was installing condom dispensers on campus. Reportedly they will be installed next to the diploma dispensers

Will the condom dispensers also be free?

No, the condoms are .50 each.....more value than the diplomas.

Condoms and diplomas are in the same vending machine. Put your money in and make your selection.