86packfan wrote: Bennett is a *****magician. His guys play the way he teaches and it works. They eliminated our fastbreak, which is the best in the country with ZO, and did it with "slow" players. The dude covering CJ constantly moved his feet and stayed in front of him (and fouled him). And their one offensive player takes the majority of their shots. And Bennett is not a ref baiter which is refreshing. I like our guy and would not switch, but he ain't bad.

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

Yep, I have an agenda.  I'd prefer to see us beat teams we're supposed to beat than lose and pull out the same 'we're still learning.  Things will be fine.  We'll learn from this loss' ********.  


If that's an issue, so be it.  Gottfried has obviously done a lot of good things as a coach so far.  He definitely overachieved with our squad last year.  He also has us on the track to compete with UNC and Duke.

My problem is that he's underachieving with the team that we have.  There is no excuse to losing to Wake Forest, not getting one of either Maryland or UVA as wins, and getting blown out by Oklahoma State.  None.  It's also troubling that his end of game management seems a bit off.  As well as his management of the roster (we had plenty of opportunities to develop the guys on the bench.  Why not use them instead of throwing them right into the fire when a starter gets injured?).

ArmandJ wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

Yep, I have an agenda.  I'd prefer to see us beat teams we're supposed to beat than lose and pull out the same 'we're still learning.  Things will be fine.  We'll learn from this loss' ********.  


If that's an issue, so be it.  Gottfried has obviously done a lot of good things as a coach so far.  He definitely overachieved with our squad last year.  He also has us on the track to compete with UNC and Duke.

My problem is that he's underachieving with the team that we have.  There is no excuse to losing to Wake Forest, not getting one of either Maryland or UVA as wins, and getting blown out by Oklahoma State.  None.  It's also troubling that his end of game management seems a bit off.  As well as his management of the roster (we had plenty of opportunities to develop the guys on the bench.  Why not use them instead of throwing them right into the fire when a starter gets injured?).

ArmandJ wrote: Rodney Purvis ‏@rpurvis_0
I just can't take losing anymore. The thought of being outplayed by any team just doesn't go over well with me as being okay. #kill

If you can't take losing, you should try harder to win.

rswilli2 wrote: We are now seeing the result of something a lot of us complained about earlier in the season - screwing around with the non-conference scrubs and not blowing them out of the building, which would have let our bench players get quality time on the floor.

tuckerowenbeach wrote: Look at this picture below....all you need to know about last night.
"drives"....more like gets mugged....



N.C. State's C.J. Leslie (5) drives between Virginia's Mike Tobey (10), left, and Jontel Evans (1) during the first half at John Paul Jones Arena in Charlottesville, Virginia, Tuesday, January 29, 2013. (Ethan Hyman/Raleigh News & Observer/MCT)

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/30/382121 8/virginia-cavaliers-beat-shorthanded.html#storyli nk=cpy

rswilli2 wrote: We are now seeing the result of something a lot of us complained about earlier in the season - screwing around with the non-conference scrubs and not blowing them out of the building, which would have let our bench players get quality time on the floor.

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

BlackRazor wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

yeah think about the media switch regarding NCSU - now they're asking why the team loses road games. Not too long ago the focus was NCSU fans & we were asked what do we expect?

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Juardis wrote: A few observations.

1. Zo's injury *could* be good to get Lewis some PT, even if we have to take some losses in the process. Here's hoping Tyler takes advantage

2. TJ Warren was 1-7 and started. Is this a sign of what to expect next year when the other team focuses on him like UVa did last night?

3. Wood has GOT to play better. He's a Sr, he needs to step it up.

4. Even if Zo did not get injured, we may have still lost that game. You guys saying we win by 10+ easily are just making excuses. I mean, if we could lose to WF with Zo, we can lose to anybody.

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

BlackRazor wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

yeah think about the media switch regarding NCSU - now they're asking why the team loses road games. Not too long ago the focus was NCSU fans & we were asked what do we expect?

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

Wahoos4Ever wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

Wahoos4Ever wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

bppack wrote:

rswilli2 wrote: I just think there's a problem when Virginia is favored over us. At what point do we start being the favorite over untalented slugs like UVa?

VA is 15-5, 5-2.

Then Bennett is a ******* magician. Because that team is as slow and untalented as any I've seen.

Come on, that's just silliness.  Slow pace =/= slow team.  A slow team isn't holding ACC opponents under 60 points in every single game.

Besides, you guys have already played BC, GT, and Clemson this year.

See, this is the same stuff we were told about Herb Sendek. "Oh, we have the athletes to run, but Coach prefers to play his system". And it's nonsense. You don't shackle pure athletes to run a boring system that limits possessions to under 50 per game. You run that system when you can't recruit elite players.

So you guys wouldn't take Mike Tobey or Joe Harris on your team today?  Or Evan Nolte or Justin Anderson?

Right.

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

MisterRee wrote:

BlackRazor wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

yeah think about the media switch regarding NCSU - now they're asking why the team loses road games. Not too long ago the focus was NCSU fans & we were asked what do we expect?

Great point
We have been ranked all year. 
It is a good time to be a State basketball fan right now. At least for some.

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

rswilli2 wrote: my hope for State going forward is that we bring in guys that want to beat the hell out of opponents and don't have the "cooler than cool" demeanor. A real killer instinct.

wolfpackernc wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

We don't always agree.....but we do here.

Wahoos4Ever wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

ISEWolfpack2010 wrote:

bppack wrote:

rswilli2 wrote: I just think there's a problem when Virginia is favored over us. At what point do we start being the favorite over untalented slugs like UVa?

VA is 15-5, 5-2.

With an RPI > 100

Another Herb staple, crappy schedules so they can squeak into the tournament where that awful offense and groping defense will not work. 

For crying out loud.  They played Wisconsin, Tennessee, and ODU in what turned out to be massive down years for those programs.  (And the ODU game is part of a new event called the "Governor's Invitational" that gets UVA or VT to headline an event with three of the mid-major state schools every year.)  They lost in the second round of the preseason NIT with their top two PGs out, so they played the likes of North Texas instead of K-State and Michigan.

You guys are great.

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

tintinisahottie wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- Otter74 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

Lewis isn't ready, but Purvis isn't either.  By putting Purvis at the point, we weaken 2 spots instead of just 1.

---------------------------------------------

Gotta agree with this. God forbid but if Zo is out we're gonna need to let Tyler have some growing pains out on the court and let him play through them. He should've played more last night in my opinion, though I understand the reasoning why he didn't

jacklam wrote: Gotta love the comparisons to Sendek, who was a whopping 0-6 vs Bennett (only slightly poorer than NC State's 1-5 record vs him), despite having far greater talent.  There is a reason why you guys are mocked by the rest of the ACC.

MisterRee wrote:

tintinisahottie wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- Otter74 wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote: Can you imagine what the Monday morning coaches would have said if Gott had left Lewis in and he made a mistake that cost us a game?

I am not saying Gott is perfect but heavens we are not even two years removed from the Sid friggin Lowe abortion years and some posters expect NCSU to never lose. Insane.

Lewis isn't ready. I hate to say it, but he's not. Purvis is rightfully getting extra reps at the point.

Lewis isn't ready, but Purvis isn't either.  By putting Purvis at the point, we weaken 2 spots instead of just 1.

---------------------------------------------

Gotta agree with this. God forbid but if Zo is out we're gonna need to let Tyler have some growing pains out on the court and let him play through them. He should've played more last night in my opinion, though I understand the reasoning why he didn't

Lewis is such a liability defensively. His man can beat him at will. Hopefully this changes.

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

So when is it acceptable to point out obvious flaws in Gottfried? I don't think anybody is out to get him. But some things are there for the whole world to see.

Juardis wrote: A few observations.

1. Zo's injury *could* be good to get Lewis some PT, even if we have to take some losses in the process. Here's hoping Tyler takes advantage

2. TJ Warren was 1-7 and started. Is this a sign of what to expect next year when the other team focuses on him like UVa did last night?

3. Wood has GOT to play better. He's a Sr, he needs to step it up.

4. Even if Zo did not get injured, we may have still lost that game. You guys saying we win by 10+ easily are just making excuses. I mean, if we could lose to WF with Zo, we can lose to anybody.

Well we "could" have lost with Zo - but we looked a lot better (to me) than we did against weaker teams Wake and MD - if we had played against those two the way we did last night - we would have beaten both of them by double figures. Remember the MD game?? We started out down 10 before we started playing ! We did not do that last night (up 12-7 when Zo got hurt - should have been 14 if the crazy ref had not called Warren for a two step walk).

In other words - we overcame our "playing worse on the road" and "playing bad after a big win" bugaboos only to be bit on the *** by the injury bug - losing the one person that we can least afford to lose - and for 30 minutes of the game.

Now - we still could of / should of - won. We made mistakes (many of which we would not have made with Zo playing the way he was) - and we missed shots. And the rugby style allowed by the refs did not help - but we would have overcome that with Zo playing - it was clear as crystal to me.

Now - for over half the Wake game it looked the same way - so really who knows - but I sure felt different about last night's game overall in terms of playing hard and not giving up and will go to my grave believing that if Zo does not get hurt - we win and win big to break out of our road slump (which would have been 2 games - at Wake and at MD unless we stunk it up in Durham next week).

GO PACK!!! BEAT MIAMI!!!!!!!

last night's loss was all about our lack of depth at pg. Nothing more - nothing less.

Get Zo back healthy and we are back on track for a splendid year.

DalevilleWolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

So when is it acceptable to point out obvious flaws in Gottfried? I don't think anybody is out to get him. But some things are there for the whole world to see.

Here's something I don't get, and torqued me to no end last night. In the second half, when we started blowing our lead, everytime CJ got the ball, he either forced a shot, or committed a turnover. I mean, almost every stinkin' time. Not once did he look to pass. I was laughing at it at first. Whether CJ was the first pass, or fourth pass, when it got to him, no one saw it again. Oh, he scored a few, but the turnovers and forced craptastic shots far outweighed the makes.

Yet our staff sits there and does nothing. He went out of the game at one point, and our offense even looked halfway fluid. Then, he comes in, and immediately became the black hole, bull-in-a-china shop turnover machine. Every time he got the ball, even my kids were yelling "oh no, here we go, what's it going to be?" It was laughable, and then so maddening that with 5 minutes to go in the game, I walked away. Done. Now if us idiot fans can see it, why can't this awesome staff see it? Or do they see and just choose to do nothing about it.

As far as the officials and the injury to Lo, I subscribe to Mike Tomlin's philosophy that "excuses are tools for the incompetent." And that's what they are; excuses. I understand the frustration by a lot of people. We have a good team, yet we are well on our way to peeing away the year. With our current play, we will not win the ACC, and won't make it out of the first weekend of the NCAA's. Even with Zo out last night, our talent level was far and away better than UVA's. Yet, we lose. I believe that's coaching.

I like this staff, but something has to give. It's becoming Amatoesque, in that we recruit all this great talent, but can't win squat. Picked to win the ACC, and lose on the road to MD, Wake, and UVA. Are you kidding me?

GoPack40 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- jmckinny wrote:

blame the refs. blame the coaching. blame lo's injury. here's my take.

they had enough good players and were coached well enough to have 4-5 chances to tie or take the lead in the last 3 minutes and got NOTTA due to bad shot selection and poor decisions. in the second half alone they fouled a 3 pt. shooter and stepped out of bounds 4 times with pocession of the ball. 3 times while they were trying to run half court offense.

blame it on coaching if you want but IMO we've seen the same thing against maryland, wake, and now uva. at some point you have to have players step up and make plays in crucial situations. especially on the road.

---------------------------------------------

These are my thoughts as well. Our bball IQ is awful.

dsd27205 wrote:

DalevilleWolf wrote:

rswilli2 wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

ArmandJ wrote: That is true. Honestly, I don't question the effort in this game. It's more coaching...why go through the entire season not really developing your bench? It makes no sense. It was the same problem we had last year as well; our bench was barely getting any real quality minutes (they also didn't contribute a lot). We have a McD All American point guard who apparently isn't up to speed handling the ball. That's a cause for concern, wouldn't you agree?

LOL
When someone starts questioning the coaching this early in his tenure I realize they have another agenda. 
There is way more positive coaching data than negative but some posters get in such a tizzy after every loss they cannot see that.

So when is it acceptable to point out obvious flaws in Gottfried? I don't think anybody is out to get him. But some things are there for the whole world to see.

Here's something I don't get, and torqued me to no end last night. In the second half, when we started blowing our lead, everytime CJ got the ball, he either forced a shot, or committed a turnover. I mean, almost every stinkin' time. Not once did he look to pass. I was laughing at it at first. Whether CJ was the first pass, or fourth pass, when it got to him, no one saw it again. Oh, he scored a few, but the turnovers and forced craptastic shots far outweighed the makes.

Yet our staff sits there and does nothing. He went out of the game at one point, and our offense even looked halfway fluid. Then, he comes in, and immediately became the black hole, bull-in-a-china shop turnover machine. Every time he got the ball, even my kids were yelling "oh no, here we go, what's it going to be?" It was laughable, and then so maddening that with 5 minutes to go in the game, I walked away. Done. Now if us idiot fans can see it, why can't this awesome staff see it? Or do they see and just choose to do nothing about it.

As far as the officials and the injury to Lo, I subscribe to Mike Tomlin's philosophy that "excuses are tools for the incompetent." And that's what they are; excuses. I understand the frustration by a lot of people. We have a good team, yet we are well on our way to peeing away the year. With our current play, we will not win the ACC, and won't make it out of the first weekend of the NCAA's. Even with Zo out last night, our talent level was far and away better than UVA's. Yet, we lose. I believe that's coaching.

I like this staff, but something has to give. It's becoming Amatoesque, in that we recruit all this great talent, but can't win squat. Picked to win the ACC, and lose on the road to MD, Wake, and UVA. Are you kidding me?

CJL annoys me when he does that also, but last night he was trying to carry us and no one else stepped up at all.  Without him we would have lost by more.

Not sure quoting Mike Tomlin is a good thing considering his season.