HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

copper2945 wrote: I think more people in this state hate the Panthers than like them. If a mod is reading this, can you start a poll to see where PP's view of the Panthers is at now.

up to 10 choices for a poll

give me the options

if may be a day or so until I can start the poll

I saw a national map which had each county shaded for team "Facebook likes".

Panthers only had a few counties around Charlotte.

Most of the rest of the state was:

Steelers
Cowboys
Redskins

There are a significant number of fans of:

Bills
Giants
Bears

And, there are plenty of Chargers and Seahawks fans in Raleigh due to the State connections.

I bet you a lot of those Steelers fans are due to State connections too from the Cowher years

1321wolf wrote:

NCSUWarrior wrote: If people in the Charlotte metro area want to pay for this thing, then by all means proceed. However there is a snowballs chance the NC General assembly will pay a dime for the stadium upgrade. What sense does it make for someone living in Elizabeth City to pay for a stadium in Charlotte? Also, NC is currently 2.5 billion in the hole for unemployment benefits paid out during the recession. The last thing we need to do is spend money on a stadium upgrade.

It's time these cities start calling the NFL's bluff. These stadium upgrades across the country have gotten out of control mostly for the benefit of a few billionaires. And yes I know the local economies benefit from the teams, but prove to me the people in Charlotte wouldn't spend that money elsewhere if there were no team.

What sense does it make for somebody in Charlotte to pay for a road in Elizabeth City?

You could make the same criticism of almost everything the government spends taxpayer money on. The standard "public good" argument is mostly nonsense.

I'm pretty sure a decent road network is more of a government responsibility than a football stadium.

maybe a small % but I would think a majority are transplants

BravesPanthersPack wrote:

HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

copper2945 wrote: I think more people in this state hate the Panthers than like them. If a mod is reading this, can you start a poll to see where PP's view of the Panthers is at now.

up to 10 choices for a poll

give me the options

if may be a day or so until I can start the poll

I saw a national map which had each county shaded for team "Facebook likes".

Panthers only had a few counties around Charlotte.

Most of the rest of the state was:

Steelers
Cowboys
Redskins

There are a significant number of fans of:

Bills
Giants
Bears

And, there are plenty of Chargers and Seahawks fans in Raleigh due to the State connections.

I bet you a lot of those Steelers fans are due to State connections too from the Cowher years

Carolina Panthers have the least loyal fans in the NFL per the stats
deadspin.com/5980852/who-is-am...-a-clear-winner

Although three teams rank below them, the Carolina Panthers appear to have the least loyal fanbase. The Redskins, Raiders, and Jets all have other teams within 50 miles of their stadium and therefore share a fanbase. The Panthers' closest competitors are the Atlanta Falcons who play over 240 miles away from Charlotte. As we'll see later, the Panthers lose most of the Carolinas to the Cowboys.

BravesPanthersPack wrote:

HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

copper2945 wrote: I think more people in this state hate the Panthers than like them. If a mod is reading this, can you start a poll to see where PP's view of the Panthers is at now.

up to 10 choices for a poll

give me the options

if may be a day or so until I can start the poll

I saw a national map which had each county shaded for team "Facebook likes".

Panthers only had a few counties around Charlotte.

Most of the rest of the state was:

Steelers
Cowboys
Redskins

There are a significant number of fans of:

Bills
Giants
Bears

And, there are plenty of Chargers and Seahawks fans in Raleigh due to the State connections.

I bet you a lot of those Steelers fans are due to State connections too from the Cowher years

I bet even more are from Bradshaw-Swann-Lambert years.

One of the issues is that many of the people in the area were fans of other teams prior to the Panthers arrival.  Many have maintained loyalty to those teams.  Redskins, Raiders and Jets have been around forever.

Also, many in the Carolinas are transplants and keep pulling on for their former hometown team.  I have several in my neighborhood that are from Wisky and still continue to pull for the Packers followed by the Panthers.

I have several bars in a 10 mile radius that are either, Pitts Steeler, Bills or Browns bars.

Plus, you gotta win to gain a fan base, heck that has been the biggest problem with us, NCSU.  If you did not have a connection with State then you were probably pulling for the winners down the road but we see a shift in that hopefully.  When the Panthers were winning that fanbase was much different and the buzz was exciting - that is something the younger generation has yet to experience much of yet.

flair1 wrote: Carolina Panthers have the least loyal fans in the NFL per the stats
deadspin.com/5980852/who-is-am...-a-clear-winner

Although three teams rank below them, the Carolina Panthers appear to have the least loyal fanbase. The Redskins, Raiders, and Jets all have other teams within 50 miles of their stadium and therefore share a fanbase. The Panthers' closest competitors are the Atlanta Falcons who play over 240 miles away from Charlotte. As we'll see later, the Panthers lose most of the Carolinas to the Cowboys.

Panthers are one of the NFL most nondescript teams without any true national stars . Boring team, dull, bland stadium and an apathetic fan base who go to games to be seen rather than to actually watch the game. There are a core of true diehards but they are in the minority.

Most of the people around the Carolinas who are fans of the Cowboys, Steelers, or whoever else is because they grew up with no Panthers. Being in my 20's, I've had the Panthers around pretty much since I seriously started following football, unlike others who simply bandwagon onto the good teams around the country because that's what young people do if they don't have a local team. I'm not from Pittsburgh, Texas, Washington, or Wisconsin. I'm from NC and I'm a Panthers fan. I support the local team.

---------------------------------------------
--- Benson22 wrote:

Panthers are one of the NFL most nondescript teams without any true national stars . Boring team, dull, bland stadium and an apathetic fan base who go to games to be seen rather than to actually watch the game. There are a core of true diehards but they are in the minority.

---------------------------------------------

That's one of the reasons I see Cam bolting to a major market once his contract is up.

1985 NCSU Grad wrote: First let us go over a few things...

First - they are PSL's - they are permanent (unless team moves). They are transferrable. I own 5 that we (my brothers) paid $7,200 and I can sell them for approx. $21,000 now. There are Club Seats and Suites actually have a renewal term of every 10 years. They are priced into the tickets which run (50 yard line) about $350 per game...

Second - the Carolina Panthers, Panthers Stadium, LLC and two other corporations pay approx. $40 million dollars in various states, local and public service fees and taxes. The land alone (prior to the stadium it was $64,000) generates a tax bill of over $2 million. This does not include the over $2 million dollars in gas tax paid by the Panthers, the fans and the employees to and from the stadium.

Third - the Caroina Panthers donates $100 of thousands of dollars to local schools, non-profits, youth teams and students throughout Carolinas. They donate 30,100 dollars in college scholarships and 10 $1,000 dollar grants to high schools for sports equipment throughtout the Carolinas. 

Fourth - lots of non-profits make their entire budget in fudnraising at the stadium - these are located throughout the Carolinas. I know 2 that have people drive 1.5 hours each way for a game.

Fifth - the Carolina Panthers are directly related for 4,500 jobs and indirect for 1,500 jobs to people throughout the Carolinas.

Finally - we have the direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact.

This is just the start of the money it pulls in for the state - it does not include the jobs and businesses that it helps pull in.

1- Cool
2- Neato, but just because they are a sports team they get to have a refund on their taxes?  Incentives for businesses are not always a bad thing, but they aren't justified to a partial refund of their obligations just because they ask.
3- Ok, but no different than marketing.
4- Good, but they don't do it out of the kindness of their hearts.  It is a easy, reliable supply of cheap labor and avoids the difficulties of managing a workforce.
5- How can you possibly believe that?  Directly responsible for 4,500 jobs?  The Panthers employ maybe 200 people.  Even if every single player spent every single cent of his salary locally ($120MM) it would only generate 4,000 $30k jobs.  That is of course ignoring that the player have to pay taxes, agents, etc.  But that would not be the definition of direct.  Indirectly they might contribute to 1,500 part time jobs in bars, parking lots, stadium security, beer delivery guys. 

I live in Charlotte, never been to a Panthers game, but I am in favor of implementing the local tax.  The state contributions to funds only makes sense if it is directed towards State owned infastructure improvements.  However, the best guestimate of the expenses lists nothing of the sort.  http://www.starnewsonline.com/.../APN/1302110957  The problem with the process is that is being done completely in private.

dsd27205 wrote:

1321wolf wrote:

NCSUWarrior wrote: If people in the Charlotte metro area want to pay for this thing, then by all means proceed. However there is a snowballs chance the NC General assembly will pay a dime for the stadium upgrade. What sense does it make for someone living in Elizabeth City to pay for a stadium in Charlotte? Also, NC is currently 2.5 billion in the hole for unemployment benefits paid out during the recession. The last thing we need to do is spend money on a stadium upgrade.

It's time these cities start calling the NFL's bluff. These stadium upgrades across the country have gotten out of control mostly for the benefit of a few billionaires. And yes I know the local economies benefit from the teams, but prove to me the people in Charlotte wouldn't spend that money elsewhere if there were no team.

What sense does it make for somebody in Charlotte to pay for a road in Elizabeth City?

You could make the same criticism of almost everything the government spends taxpayer money on. The standard "public good" argument is mostly nonsense.

I'm pretty sure a decent road network is more of a government responsibility than a football stadium.

It's not a government responsibility, it is a function that the government has chosen to monopolize (making private road making unprofitable). There's a big difference. The Constitution says nothing about building roads, and it was something done by the private sector until about 100 years ago.  

The argument was why should somebody pay for something that doesn't benefit them personally. There are all kinds of things the government does that fit that description, a football stadium is one of thousands.

wolfer79 wrote: If would be interesting to know how many Panther players and executives have homes in North Carolina and how many have homes in South Carolina.

I seem to remember some tax rule that states with state income tax can tax professional athletes for whatever percent of their games were played in that state.

You get taxed where you work. I live in North Carolina and work in South Carolina. I pay zero income tax to North Carolina.

Benson22 wrote: Panthers are one of the NFL most nondescript teams without any true national stars . Boring team, dull, bland stadium and an apathetic fan base who go to games to be seen rather than to actually watch the game. There are a core of true diehards but they are in the minority.

So your're saying most Panther fans are also unc-cheater fans?

1985 NCSU Grad wrote: First let us go over a few things...

First - they are PSL's - they are permanent (unless team moves). They are transferrable. I own 5 that we (my brothers) paid $7,200 and I can sell them for approx. $21,000 now. There are Club Seats and Suites actually have a renewal term of every 10 years. They are priced into the tickets which run (50 yard line) about $350 per game...

Second - the Carolina Panthers, Panthers Stadium, LLC and two other corporations pay approx. $40 million dollars in various states, local and public service fees and taxes. The land alone (prior to the stadium it was $64,000) generates a tax bill of over $2 million. This does not include the over $2 million dollars in gas tax paid by the Panthers, the fans and the employees to and from the stadium.

Third - the Caroina Panthers donates $100 of thousands of dollars to local schools, non-profits, youth teams and students throughout Carolinas. They donate 30,100 dollars in college scholarships and 10 $1,000 dollar grants to high schools for sports equipment throughtout the Carolinas. 

Fourth - lots of non-profits make their entire budget in fudnraising at the stadium - these are located throughout the Carolinas. I know 2 that have people drive 1.5 hours each way for a game.

Fifth - the Carolina Panthers are directly related for 4,500 jobs and indirect for 1,500 jobs to people throughout the Carolinas.

Finally - we have the direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact.

This is just the start of the money it pulls in for the state - it does not include the jobs and businesses that it helps pull in.

Facts will not be tolerated around here. How do you expect to make an argument for something here with an appeal to raw hatred?

I am not in favor of a tax because I believe Jerry can pay for it, he could use the facility for more than a few football games a year for starters (the place is empty most of the time). But I'm also not in favor of almost everything the government wastes our stolen money on.

IF the government is going to spend money on nonsense anyway (and it is) I'd prefer it be spent on things I would benefit from, like this. So I'm no different than anybody else.

It's just kind of funny listening to people complain about having their tax dollars used for things that don't directly benefit them in this one particular instance, and yet don't seem to have a problem with all the other thousands of items their tax dollars are used for that fit that don't benefit them either (or even harm them). Football team hatred runs deep.

1321wolf wrote:

1985 NCSU Grad wrote: First let us go over a few things...

First - they are PSL's - they are permanent (unless team moves). They are transferrable. I own 5 that we (my brothers) paid $7,200 and I can sell them for approx. $21,000 now. There are Club Seats and Suites actually have a renewal term of every 10 years. They are priced into the tickets which run (50 yard line) about $350 per game...

Second - the Carolina Panthers, Panthers Stadium, LLC and two other corporations pay approx. $40 million dollars in various states, local and public service fees and taxes. The land alone (prior to the stadium it was $64,000) generates a tax bill of over $2 million. This does not include the over $2 million dollars in gas tax paid by the Panthers, the fans and the employees to and from the stadium.

Third - the Caroina Panthers donates $100 of thousands of dollars to local schools, non-profits, youth teams and students throughout Carolinas. They donate 30,100 dollars in college scholarships and 10 $1,000 dollar grants to high schools for sports equipment throughtout the Carolinas. 

Fourth - lots of non-profits make their entire budget in fudnraising at the stadium - these are located throughout the Carolinas. I know 2 that have people drive 1.5 hours each way for a game.

Fifth - the Carolina Panthers are directly related for 4,500 jobs and indirect for 1,500 jobs to people throughout the Carolinas.

Finally - we have the direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact.

This is just the start of the money it pulls in for the state - it does not include the jobs and businesses that it helps pull in.

Facts will not be tolerated around here. How do you expect to make an argument for something here with an appeal to raw hatred?

I am not in favor of a tax because I believe Jerry can pay for it, he could use the facility for more than a few football games a year for starters (the place is empty most of the time). But I'm also not in favor of almost everything the government wastes our stolen money on.

IF the government is going to spend money on nonsense anyway (and it is) I'd prefer it be spent on things I would benefit from, like this. So I'm no different than anybody else.

It's just kind of funny listening to people complain about having their tax dollars used for things that don't directly benefit them in this one particular instance, and yet don't seem to have a problem with all the other thousands of items their tax dollars are used for that fit that don't benefit them either (or even harm them). Football team hatred runs deep.

On the list of things that the government can spend money on, a sports stadium is about as benign a choice as you can get.  Better this than tax collection, regulations and various law enforcement duties as just a few examples.

May have already been said, but hopefully they set it up so that the rainwater from the upper deck doesn't pour down into the lower bowl. I've only been to one game there and it was the monsoon game last (?) year. I was fortunate to be far enough under the overhang, but select seats were the landing zone for waterfalls from the upper deck.

CardiacPackAttack wrote: Sure it does...

Panthers: "Direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact."

Redskins: "zilch"

Are you truly this dense?

You're right - the Redskins contribute zero to the NC economy.  But then again neither do the Oakland Raiders, or the Green Bay Packers, or the NY Giants.

And none of them are asking NC taxpayers for anything either.

I know this sounds weird but every time I go to a Panthers game I get that same sort-of-disgusting feeling I get when I go to chapel hill.

And I try to be a Panthers fan

I hope the Panthers move. I'm a hater.

1321wolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote: If would be interesting to know how many Panther players and executives have homes in North Carolina and how many have homes in South Carolina.

I seem to remember some tax rule that states with state income tax can tax professional athletes for whatever percent of their games were played in that state.

You get taxed where you work. I live in North Carolina and work in South Carolina. I pay zero income tax to North Carolina.

What if you work from home for a company based in Florida?

Pack84a wrote:

CardiacPackAttack wrote: Sure it does...

Panthers: "Direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact."

Redskins: "zilch"

Are you truly this dense?

You're right - the Redskins contribute zero to the NC economy.  But then again neither do the Oakland Raiders, or the Green Bay Packers, or the NY Giants.

And none of them are asking NC taxpayers for anything either.

it appears Panther pay for 8 games worth of  NC taxes and if other NFL teams play a game in Charlotte they are supposed to pay for 1 game taxes in NC

HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote: If would be interesting to know how many Panther players and executives have homes in North Carolina and how many have homes in South Carolina.

I seem to remember some tax rule that states with state income tax can tax professional athletes for whatever percent of their games were played in that state.

That's a IRS rule.  If you work in a state, even if it's for one day, you are supposed to pay income tax to that state for the income you make for that day.

It does bite athletes hard.  Take a hockey player that makes $4.1 million a year.  Based on a 82 game schedule, that's $50k a game.  Let's say that's a Washington Capital for argument's sake.  They play in Raleigh 3 times, that's $150k.  That's a little more than the average salary for a white collar professional.  That player owes NC a good chunk of change.

Pack84a wrote:

CardiacPackAttack wrote: Sure it does...

Panthers: "Direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact."

Redskins: "zilch"

Are you truly this dense?

You're right - the Redskins contribute zero to the NC economy.  But then again neither do the Oakland Raiders, or the Green Bay Packers, or the NY Giants.

And none of them are asking NC taxpayers for anything either.

I know Tobacco Road Sports bar in DT raleigh gets a lot of business from NFL fans who are not fans of the Panthers. They have the Redskins fan club.

wolfer79 wrote:

Pack84a wrote:

CardiacPackAttack wrote: Sure it does...

Panthers: "Direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact."

Redskins: "zilch"

Are you truly this dense?

You're right - the Redskins contribute zero to the NC economy.  But then again neither do the Oakland Raiders, or the Green Bay Packers, or the NY Giants.

And none of them are asking NC taxpayers for anything either.

it appears Panther pay for 8 games worth of  NC taxes and if other NFL teams play a game in Charlotte they are supposed to pay for 1 game taxes in NC

HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote: If would be interesting to know how many Panther players and executives have homes in North Carolina and how many have homes in South Carolina.

I seem to remember some tax rule that states with state income tax can tax professional athletes for whatever percent of their games were played in that state.

That's a IRS rule.  If you work in a state, even if it's for one day, you are supposed to pay income tax to that state for the income you make for that day.

It does bite athletes hard.  Take a hockey player that makes $4.1 million a year.  Based on a 82 game schedule, that's $50k a game.  Let's say that's a Washington Capital for argument's sake.  They play in Raleigh 3 times, that's $150k.  That's a little more than the average salary for a white collar professional.  That player owes NC a good chunk of change.

I don't claim to know the IRS rules regarding professional athletes and frankly I don't really care since it doesn't affect me.

If indeed the above is true I can see how it would be a nightmare for the player's accountant and/or lawyer to try to figure out.

None of which have anything to do to my point with Col. Mustard.

Pack84a wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

Pack84a wrote:

CardiacPackAttack wrote: Sure it does...

Panthers: "Direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact."

Redskins: "zilch"

Are you truly this dense?

You're right - the Redskins contribute zero to the NC economy.  But then again neither do the Oakland Raiders, or the Green Bay Packers, or the NY Giants.

And none of them are asking NC taxpayers for anything either.

it appears Panther pay for 8 games worth of  NC taxes and if other NFL teams play a game in Charlotte they are supposed to pay for 1 game taxes in NC

HollySpringsWolf wrote:

wolfer79 wrote: If would be interesting to know how many Panther players and executives have homes in North Carolina and how many have homes in South Carolina.

I seem to remember some tax rule that states with state income tax can tax professional athletes for whatever percent of their games were played in that state.

That's a IRS rule.  If you work in a state, even if it's for one day, you are supposed to pay income tax to that state for the income you make for that day.

It does bite athletes hard.  Take a hockey player that makes $4.1 million a year.  Based on a 82 game schedule, that's $50k a game.  Let's say that's a Washington Capital for argument's sake.  They play in Raleigh 3 times, that's $150k.  That's a little more than the average salary for a white collar professional.  That player owes NC a good chunk of change.

I don't claim to know the IRS rules regarding professional athletes and frankly I don't really care since it doesn't affect me.

If indeed the above is true I can see how it would be a nightmare for the player's accountant and/or lawyer to try to figure out.

None of which have anything to do to my point with Col. Mustard.

it a player pays taxes in NC, I would call that direct economic impact. but that may just be me.

partizanpack wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: $62 million is a pittance, really.

The Panthers are great for the state of NC. Having public money involved in stadium construction and upgrades is basically the price of having a pro sports team.

I think the state and city of Charlotte should make the Panthers commit for more than 15 years in exchange over $300 million though. Make 'em sign a 50 year lease at the renovated stadium.

I'm pretty sure it is a privately own facility that is owned by a subsidiary of the Panthers.  What would be the good in making them sign a lease with themselves?

I forgot that the Panthers owned the stadium...why couldn't some type of longer-than-15-year agreement be a condition of receiving $300 million in public money though?  If they were already going to sign a 15-year agreement, why not make it longer?

wolfer79 wrote:
it a player pays taxes in NC, I would call that direct economic impact. but that may just be me.

I would agree with that.  In other words the Redskins, Packers, and Dolphins may have some economic impact in this state, although not as much as the Kittycats.  And execpt for division teams which will always play one game each year in Charlotte, the teams making that impact will vary from year to year depending on the home schedule.

None of which has anything to do with the absurd argument Col. Mustard was attempting to make.

Panthers and Canes fan....glad we have both. However, I do wish we didn't share an arena with the Canes and it pisses me off if the Canes broadcast intefers with a Wolfpack broadcast.

Does anyone have any idea or stats on economic impact for roughly equivalent funds for non-sports businesses?  I know Charlotte is a bit of a financial hub - have they lured a bank there in the past using incentives? 

I would think that companies w/lots of good jobs like programmers, accountants, managers, etc might be better for the local economy than helping build a stadium that largely benefits owners/players and then a bunch of low paying jobs - ushers, restaurants, etc.

WOLFDAC wrote: Panthers and Canes fan....glad we have both. However, I do wish we didn't share an arena with the Canes and it pisses me off if the Canes broadcast intefers with a Wolfpack broadcast.

?

?

I think the 15 year is the time frame, because by then the Panthers will need a new stadium.

It's in the Charlotte O today. Looks like it passed city council 9-1, and they need the state govt to approve the addl tax. Also they intend to keep it and stockpile money for future use in Panthers ....maybe when the need a new stadium.

I hope the state tells them to bugger off.

It is 15 years because that is when the debt will be retired. I am all for it. I am amazed at some of the misinformation on this thread. If I have to pay taxes I would much rather it go to my NFL team than pretty much anything else. So much is wasted on crap. At least this way I will get to go to the games and have a team to cheer for at least 15 more years. The fan base concept is an interesting one. If you think about it, the panthers have been around since 1995. Most adults by then had teams they grew up loving and have a hard time changing allegiances. The thing is, there is a whole generation of kids that are now teenagers who have grown up going to panthers games and cheering for them. It builds over time. Just like anywhere else, when the team wins the atmosphere at BOFA stadium is great. When the team sucks, not so much.

Sports economists are virtually unanimous in their dislike of this kind of deal. The evidence is not there to support it. Maybe tonight I'll post some commentary and studies.

This is corporate welfare. Anyone who supports this cannot in good conscience be against any of the community organizer's forays into supporting businesses and deciding winners and losers. (To be fair, we have plenty of Republicans who are just as hypocritical.) It is also the type of issue that most distinguishes conservatives from libertarians. No one in the latter group would advocate using the police power of the state to get into a citizen's wallet for the express purpose of handing money over to a millionaire.

If this is such a good investment, why don't the banks get on it?

It's just not a proper function of the taxpayer dollar to provide direct aid to private for profit organizations like the Carolina Panthers.

Then there truly is no help for you.  And if people like you vote it's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

Wolfvet wrote:  If I have to pay taxes I would much rather it go to my NFL team than pretty much anything else.

HELLO Okanjo says many Governments would pay the Carolina Panthers $62 million to go Away. THANK YOU.

elonwolfpacker wrote:

Benson22 wrote: Panthers are one of the NFL most nondescript teams without any true national stars . Boring team, dull, bland stadium and an apathetic fan base who go to games to be seen rather than to actually watch the game. There are a core of true diehards but they are in the minority.

So your're saying most Panther fans are also unc-cheater fans?

Same for Bobcats fans too...

---------------------------------------------
--- SWWolf wrote:

If this is such a good investment, why don't the banks get on it?

---------------------------------------------

Economists are not unanimous.

Also, banks did pay.

Bank of America paid $140 million to stick their name on the side of the stadium.

BB&T Field in Winston Salem
Citi Field in New York
EverBank Field in Jax
Fifth Third Bank in Cincy
Lincoln Financial Field in Philly
M&T Bank Stadium in Baltimore
MetLife Stadium in Meadowlands

PNC Arena in Raleigh!

Would you prefer your tax money support all the baby mommas out there or an NFL team? What do you want your tax dollars spent on?

Pack84a wrote: Then there truly is no help for you.  And if people like you vote it's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

Wolfvet wrote:  If I have to pay taxes I would much rather it go to my NFL team than pretty much anything else.

1985 NCSU Grad wrote: First let us go over a few things...

First - they are PSL's - they are permanent (unless team moves). They are transferrable. I own 5 that we (my brothers) paid $7,200 and I can sell them for approx. $21,000 now. There are Club Seats and Suites actually have a renewal term of every 10 years. They are priced into the tickets which run (50 yard line) about $350 per game...

Second - the Carolina Panthers, Panthers Stadium, LLC and two other corporations pay approx. $40 million dollars in various states, local and public service fees and taxes. The land alone (prior to the stadium it was $64,000) generates a tax bill of over $2 million. This does not include the over $2 million dollars in gas tax paid by the Panthers, the fans and the employees to and from the stadium.

Third - the Caroina Panthers donates $100 of thousands of dollars to local schools, non-profits, youth teams and students throughout Carolinas. They donate 30,100 dollars in college scholarships and 10 $1,000 dollar grants to high schools for sports equipment throughtout the Carolinas. 

Fourth - lots of non-profits make their entire budget in fudnraising at the stadium - these are located throughout the Carolinas. I know 2 that have people drive 1.5 hours each way for a game.

Fifth - the Carolina Panthers are directly related for 4,500 jobs and indirect for 1,500 jobs to people throughout the Carolinas.

Finally - we have the direct economic impact of approx. $361 millions of dollars a year and $274 million dollars a year in indirect economic impact.

This is just the start of the money it pulls in for the state - it does not include the jobs and businesses that it helps pull in.

Cool...you can pay for all the stadium renovations yourself then.

As for myself and many other NC tax-payers, we'd rather spend money on more important things: infrastructure around the state, teachers, etc.