17 rounds of 60 or lower on Tour since 2000. There was 15 total in all of the previous century. Guess you can read into that what you wish. Good round by Phil (no eagles and a par on one par 5), can he back it up the next three days?

Great stats. I love Phil but don't think he wins this week.

Golf channel is showing the tourney right now.

wrcwolf wrote: 17 rounds of 60 or lower on Tour since 2000. There was 15 total in all of the previous century. Guess you can read into that what you wish. Good round by Phil (no eagles and a par on one par 5), can he back it up the next three days?

So how do you interpret it?

I think its a combination of significantly better equipment that makes Par5s an almost automatic birdie, and a greater depth pool of talented players.  Not necessary that the top 10% is better than other periods, but that there are so many talented guys from all over the world now playing the Tour who can put together a great round.
Wish Phil would have made that putt.  Good for golf for him to do well.

Always liked Phil, way before the Tiger, uhhh. Still like to see Mickelson back in the big picture again. One good representative for golf!!  Tiger??  I used to think so. Succcess may have come to early for him??  Maybe.  Has Tiger changed?  He had too. No doubt about his ability, but I have a hard time rooting for him anymore, except that he is an American representative, in that sense I do root for him.  A load of great golfers out there, and I don't see anyone winning more than 1 major, but if I had to bet on it, I would say McElroy has the best shot. Not likely though.

Yes, the lower score are due in part to equipment advances, but also better athletes playing golf. And an overlooked factor--course conditioning. The greens alone are so much better than they used to be. if you are a great putter, it is so much easier to make putts when you don't have to worry about them being bumped off line.

Cannot believe that didn't go in..... Like the announcer said, that is about as disappointing as 60 can be.

Every time he has shot 62 or better in a tournament he has won.  So far 4 for 4.  If he wins this week 5 for 5.  He will definitely have to keep it going because there are going to be some low scores.

Benson22 wrote: Great stats. I love Phil but don't think he wins this week.

Golf channel is showing the tourney right now.

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--- PackChem91 wrote:

wrcwolf wrote: 17 rounds of 60 or lower on Tour since 2000. There was 15 total in all of the previous century. Guess you can read into that what you wish. Good round by Phil (no eagles and a par on one par 5), can he back it up the next three days?

So how do you interpret it?

I think its a combination of significantly better equipment that makes Par5s an almost automatic birdie, and a greater depth pool of talented players.  Not necessary that the top 10% is better than other periods, but that there are so many talented guys from all over the world now playing the Tour who can put together a great round.
Wish Phil would have made that putt.  Good for golf for him to do well.

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The three-piece ball is the reason, IMO. Top-Flight came out with the Strata in the mid-90's and that was followed by the other manufactures.

Looking at these scores, only Geiberger's 59 occured in the decades of the 60's, 70's and 80's.

59's on Tour:

Al Geiberger: 1977 Memphis Classic (29-30), Colonial Country Club (par 72)
Chip Beck: 1991 Las Vegas Invitational (30-29), Sunrise Golf Club (par 72)
David Duval: 1999 Bob Hope Chrysler Classic (31-28), PGA West (Palmer Course) (par 72)
Paul Goydos: 2010 John Deere Classic (31-28), TPC Deere Run (par 71)
Stuart Appleby: 2010 Greenbrier Classic (28-31), The Old White Course (par 70)

60's on Tour:

Al Brosch, Brackenridge Park GC, third round, 1951 Texas Open
Bill Nary, El Paso CC, third round, 1952 El Paso Open
Ted Kroll (30-30), Brackenridge Park GC, third round, 1954 Texas Open
Wally Ulrich (29-31), Cavalier Yacht & CC, second round, 1954 Virginia Beach Open
Tommy Bolt (30-30), Wethersfield CC, second round, 1954 Insurance City Open
Mike Souchak (27-33), Brackenridge Park GC, San Antonio, TX, first round, 1955 Texas Open
Sam Snead, Glen Lakes CC, second round, 1957 Dallas Open
David Frost (29-31), Randolph Park GC, second round, 1990 Northern Telecom Tucson Open
Davis Love III (31-29), Waialae CC, second round, 1994 United Airlines Hawaiian Open
Grant Waite (31-29), TPC Scottsdale, final round, 1996 Phoenix Open
Steve Lowery (29-31), Callaway Gardens (Mountain View Course), final round, 1997 Buick Challenge
Tommy Armour III (30-30), Las Vegas CC, second round, 1999 Las Vegas Invitational
Mark Calcavecchia (29-31), TPC Scottsdale, second round, 2001 Phoenix Open
Robert Gamez (27-33), Indian Wells CC, third round, 2004 Bob Hope Chrysler Classic
Bart Bryant (29-31), The Resort Course at LaCantera, third round, 2004 Valero Texas Open
Phil Mickelson (29-31), TPC Scottsdale, second round, 2005 FBR Open
Pat Perez (30-30), Palmer Course at PGA West, first round, 2006 Bob Hope Chrysler Championship
Arron Oberholser (30-30), Cottonwood Valley Course, second round, 2006 EDS Byron Nelson Championship
Justin Rose (29-31), Palm Course, first round, 2006 Funai Classic at Walt Disney World Resort
Zach Johnson (31-29), East Lake Golf Club, third round, 2007 Tour Championship
Zach Johnson (30-30), La Cantera Golf Club (Resort Course), third round, 2009 Valero Texas Open
Steve Stricker (30-30), TPC Deere Run, first round, 2010 John Deere Classic
Carl Pettersen (31-29), St. George's Golf and Country Club, third round, 2010 RBC Canadian Open
J.B. Holmes (30-30), The Old White Course, third round, 2010 Greenbrier Classic
Patrick Cantlay (30-30), TPC River Highlands, second round, 2011 Travelers Championship
Tommy "Two Gloves" Gainey (31-29), Sea Island (Seaside Coure), fourth round, 2012 McGladrey Classic
Phil Mickelson (29-31), TPC Scottsdale, first round, 2013 Waste Management Phoenix Open

WRC: Interesting how many of those 60s took place in the west. Texas, AZ, and CA, and throw in IA. Only a handful on the Atlantic seaboard. Not sure if there is any relevance, other than I would envision that the desert courses could see absolutely windless conditions that leave them ripe for great scores.

I attended the tournament today. Perfect weather and conditions. Very little wind and cost softened a touch from rains last weekend. Saw Phil Birdie his 9th hole. Followed him the last 2 holes---just needed one more birdie for the 59. Left the putt on his 17 hole 6" short. Can't believe the putt didn't go in on his last hole. Crowd was going nutts. Great stuff.

I've never see the 16th hole as crowded as it as for a Thursday. Should be a great week!

It looked like a very large time out there, 74Pack.  The 16th was indeed raucous...as good as it has ever been for the first round.

My take on the low scores are pretty much in line with everyone else, but you have to add one factor that folks often overlook: video instruction coupled with vastly improved physical conditioning.  The equipment and the ball are incredibly important parts, of course, but thing is, today it is far easier to groove a swing when one can analyze their swing to the nth degree with expert instruction.  Pros have the benefit of the best of the best teachers, but even guys like you or me can benefit from going to a local pro, having him video the truth of our swings and having him help us get on plane and on time.

PackChem, weather is a factor, no doubt, but I think in most of the cases above the courses are just easier (shorter, greens complexes). Without any weather (wind), these guys will score. Especially at those courses.

As for instruction and video analysts that is used today, Lee Trevino had the best instructor in the world, himself. Beating a million balls in the dirt is all you need. Anyone think there's a better shot-maker today than Trevino? May have been ugly, but it was consistently good.

wrcwolf wrote: PackChem, weather is a factor, no doubt, but I think in most of the cases above the courses are just easier (shorter, greens complexes). Without any weather (wind), these guys will score. Especially at those courses.

As for instruction and video analysts that is used today, Lee Trevino had the best instructor in the world, himself. Beating a million balls in the dirt is all you need. Anyone think there's a better shot-maker today than Trevino? May have been ugly, but it was consistently good.

No one, and I mean no one has come close to working the ball like the Merry Mex. I'd say Bubba is the best in today's game, but no where near the control of Trevino.

Has anyone got down to Pinehurst and played # 2 since they have returned it to near Ross's orginal design. Looking forward to the US Open coming back to the Beast in the East...take a back seat Bethpage Black.

Of the guys who have shot 60 or better, how many of them won the tournament that the low round was scored in?

Of those who shot 59:

- Geiberger won by 3 over Jerry McGee and Gary Player

- Beck finished T3 (2 shots back) behind Andrew McGee and DA Weibring

- Duval needed that 59 in the final round to defeat Steve Pate by one

- Goydos lost to Stricker by 2 to finish 2nd. (Stricker shot 60 the same day)

- Appleby, like Duval, needed the 59 in the final round to defeat Jeff Overton by one.

WOLFDAC wrote:

wrcwolf wrote: PackChem, weather is a factor, no doubt, but I think in most of the cases above the courses are just easier (shorter, greens complexes). Without any weather (wind), these guys will score. Especially at those courses.

As for instruction and video analysts that is used today, Lee Trevino had the best instructor in the world, himself. Beating a million balls in the dirt is all you need. Anyone think there's a better shot-maker today than Trevino? May have been ugly, but it was consistently good.

No one, and I mean no one has come close to working the ball like the Merry Mex. I'd say Bubba is the best in today's game, but no where near the control of Trevino.

If Trevino had even been a mediocre putter he would have won at least 15 majors was the mantra of his peers back in the day.

"IF, (there goes that word again) Trevino had even been a mediocre putter he would have won at least 15 majors"   Can't quite buy that one Amigo!!!  No doubt, he was a great golfer, and putting was not his strongest suit.  15 Majors though???

Even with the double on #18, an impressive 65 to back-up the 60 for Phil today. 4 shot lead heading into the weekend. Should be fun to watch with Haas, Snedeker, Bradley and "El Pato" on his heels. Didn't we get a Phil, Haas, Bradley playoff in LA last year?

Go Phil!!!  A great guy, and I wouldn't like California taxes either.

goturbackpack66 wrote: "IF, (there goes that word again) Trevino had even been a mediocre putter he would have won at least 15 majors"   Can't quite buy that one Amigo!!!  No doubt, he was a great golfer, and putting was not his strongest suit.  15 Majors though???

Might wanna go back and see what his peers said and thought about Trevino. best ball striker of all time and maybe one of the worst putters of all time.

You do realize that Trevino won 6 majors I hope.

When talking about having passive hands and using the body to square the clubface, few golfers come to mind quicker than Lee Trevino. Trevino was an absolute master ballstriker who Dave Pelz said had a 5% miss percentage when the Tour average was 7% and if he were even an average putter, could’ve challenged Jack’s major record. Whether or not that’s true, Trevino was as good as there was and has many of the same traits Hogan had.

www.thevictoryformation.com/20...irons-the-best/

Very interesting article Benson. Thank you.  With all due respect, there's still a big difference between 6 and 15 majors.

I was amazed how far Phil is hitting this new driver or his. The distance between him and duff/pricky was in the neighborhood of 40 yards at times. Phil hits an iron into 15 and the others hit 3 woods into the water. It's good to see phil playing great.....It's not going to be much fun for me watching Keegan. Can't stand to watch him and all the antics

I'm just ready for some golf weather, as seeing those guys in Arizona wearing short sleeves shirts has got the "jones" going. We had some hardy souls play yesterday in that weather and wind, as the Mrs and I sat by the fire in the clubhouse watching the few put out on 18. I bought the 3 gentlemen a shot of bourbon each when they came in out of the cold.

wolfnation wrote: I was amazed how far Phil is hitting this new driver or his. The distance between him and duff/pricky was in the neighborhood of 40 yards at times. Phil hits an iron into 15 and the others hit 3 woods into the water. It's good to see phil playing great.....It's not going to be much fun for me watching Keegan. Can't stand to watch him and all the antics

If I had to play golf with Keegan, I would instruct my caddy to hide all razor blades.

Padraig Harrington punting footballs all over the place at #16...lol

celebrating Ireland's win over Wales in the 6 Nations today

Phil follows 60-65 with a 64. Six shots ahead of Snedeker going to the final round. He's (-16) on the back 9 through three rounds (27 holes). That includes his double-bogey on #18 yesterday.

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

The 16th hole at the Pheonix open is one of the better scenes in golf. That is one of the rowdiest crowds I've ever seen in golf. The shot Phil hit yesterday there was awesome.

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--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

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As long as no tiger I'm ok !

michael924 wrote:

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--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

---------------------------------------------

As long as no tiger I'm ok !

Agree100%.  Phil looks great , has lost a ton of weight and with that new driver he can hit it as straight as any of the long bombers. Led the tourney in driving distance and accuracy.

Benson22 wrote:

michael924 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

---------------------------------------------

As long as no tiger I'm ok !

Agree100%.  Phil looks great , has lost a ton of weight and with that new driver he can hit it as straight as any of the long bombers. Led the tourney in driving distance and accuracy.

Phil lost a lot of weight years ago.  Now he did have the flu a few weeks back and may have lost a few pounds, but he has been in good shape since about 2008 or so.

He also is 5 for 5 when shooting 62 or better in tournaments.  I think somebody was  saying he was going to lose after his 60 this week.

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--- Benson22 wrote:

Great stats. I love Phil but don't think he wins this week.

Golf channel is showing the tourney right now.

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Lol. Keep saying that for good luck for Phil!

The #16 is getting old for me. Some of the stuff I like but most of it seems a little overboard.

Hope this gets Phil motivated to show up at the Masters this year.

DrummerboyWolf wrote:

Benson22 wrote:

michael924 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

---------------------------------------------

As long as no tiger I'm ok !

Agree100%.  Phil looks great , has lost a ton of weight and with that new driver he can hit it as straight as any of the long bombers. Led the tourney in driving distance and accuracy.

Phil lost a lot of weight years ago.  Now he did have the flu a few weeks back and may have lost a few pounds, but he has been in good shape since about 2008 or so.

He also is 5 for 5 when shooting 62 or better in tournaments.  I think somebody was  saying he was going to lose after his 60 this week.

Phil was huge the last few years, way heavier than he is now, check the pics.

I loved being wrong about Phil winning. It is extremely hard to follow career rounds with great rounds but Phil did sand it sets him up for a great year. I think he wins the Masters and is a contender in the other 3 majors.

Benson22 wrote:

DrummerboyWolf wrote:

Benson22 wrote:

michael924 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

---------------------------------------------

As long as no tiger I'm ok !

Agree100%.  Phil looks great , has lost a ton of weight and with that new driver he can hit it as straight as any of the long bombers. Led the tourney in driving distance and accuracy.

Phil lost a lot of weight years ago.  Now he did have the flu a few weeks back and may have lost a few pounds, but he has been in good shape since about 2008 or so.

He also is 5 for 5 when shooting 62 or better in tournaments.  I think somebody was  saying he was going to lose after his 60 this week.

Phil was huge the last few years, way heavier than he is now, check the pics.

I loved being wrong about Phil winning. It is extremely hard to follow career rounds with great rounds but Phil did sand it sets him up for a great year. I think he wins the Masters and is a contender in the other 3 majors.

Maybe if you find some pics from 2007 or so.  You go back at least to 2009 and Phil is in great shape.  Hunter Mahan says that Phil does not get a lot of credit for how strong he is.  He did get a little heavy back in 2006 or so, but he lost that weight a long time ago.

DrummerboyWolf wrote:

Benson22 wrote:

DrummerboyWolf wrote:

Benson22 wrote:

michael924 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- WOLFDAC wrote:

Best form I've seen from Lefty in awhile, I don't think he'll lose it in 2 months time. He just put his name in the hat at Augusta as major contender. It will be one of three this year; Phil, Tiger or Rory to don the green jacket.

---------------------------------------------

As long as no tiger I'm ok !

Agree100%.  Phil looks great , has lost a ton of weight and with that new driver he can hit it as straight as any of the long bombers. Led the tourney in driving distance and accuracy.

Phil lost a lot of weight years ago.  Now he did have the flu a few weeks back and may have lost a few pounds, but he has been in good shape since about 2008 or so.

He also is 5 for 5 when shooting 62 or better in tournaments.  I think somebody was  saying he was going to lose after his 60 this week.

Phil was huge the last few years, way heavier than he is now, check the pics.

I loved being wrong about Phil winning. It is extremely hard to follow career rounds with great rounds but Phil did sand it sets him up for a great year. I think he wins the Masters and is a contender in the other 3 majors.

Maybe if you find some pics from 2007 or so.  You go back at least to 2009 and Phil is in great shape.  Hunter Mahan says that Phil does not get a lot of credit for how strong he is.  He did get a little heavy back in 2006 or so, but he lost that weight a long time ago.

Here is a picture of Phil winning the 2010 Masters.  Looks pretty fit and trim there.




Phil at the 2009 U. S. Open at Bethpage





I think you get my point.  Phil did get heavy around 2005 and 2006, but he took off quite a few pounds and got in shape.

Phil last year was huge. He is also huge and out of shape in the commercials for the pharmaceutical company he films with his kids.