wolfer79 wrote:

Treyvon wrote: ^ I think our overall record is why we are listed ahead of UNC*

Also same for Maryland/Fla St.

Florida State has beaten Maryland twice.
65-62 January 9 in College Park
73-71 January 30 in Tallahassee

If we are going to use tiebreakers, have to use all of them.

In the official conference standings the overall record trumps the head to head results. We are officially ahead of UNC right now.

jrauman wrote: BTW, something happened to my account a few years ago, and all my history dating back to the early days of this board went away (yet all my IC history remained).  That explains why my IC count is higher, FWIW.  Go Pack!

Same thing happened to me when I didn't post for a while.  Over 800 disappeared. 

I'll take you at your word.  And I'll agree that there is no such thing as an easy win for us these days.  Even our 28 point lead over UNC turned into a tough win.  

Nevertheless, I see us winning out.  Tied with Duke for second.

jrauman wrote: I'm an NCSU alumn ('93).   Married to a UNC grad ('92/'94).  Proudly wear my NCSU colors and enjoy every single UNC loss almost as much as an NCSU win (although I have to be nice around the spouse)    I enjoy discussing hoops with other fanbases (in a civil manner). 

Re: my comments. I've not seen any evidence that the FSU game will be anything but a close game and a last second decision.  Wish it were otherwise, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it's a easy win for NCSU over FSU.

February 17
Miami 45
Clemson 43

updated standings -ties listed what I think is tiebreaker
Miami 12-0
Duke 9-3
Virginia 8-4
NC State 7-5 (beat unc-ch head to head)
unc-ch 7-5 (lost to NC State head to head)
Florida State 6-6 (won both games vs Maryland)
Maryland 6-6 (lost to Florida State both games)
Clemson 5-8
Georgia Tech 4-8
Wake Forest 4-9
Boston College 3-9
Virginia Tech 2-10

the week ahead
February 19
Florida State @ NC State 7pm espn2/watchespn
Maryland @ Boston College 9pm ACC Network split
unc-ch @ Georgia Tech 9pm ACC Network split
Virginia @ Miami 9pm espnu/watchespn

February 21
Duke @ Virginia Tech 9pm espn/watchespn

February 23
Clemson @ Maryland noon espn2/watchespn
Miami @ Wake Forest 1pm RSN/espn3
NC State @ unc-ch 4pm espn/watchespn

February 24
Boston College @ Duke noon ACC Network
Georgia Tech @ Virginia ACC Network 2pm
Florida State @ Virginia Tech 6pm espn/watchespn

Big week for the Pack!

2-0 and we probably get back in the rankings and are solid for a first round ACC bye
1-1 and we are still out of the rankings but are still in the fight for the first round bye and a solid tourney team
0-2 and we are squarely on the bubble and likely out of the race for a bye.

jrauman wrote: BTW, something happened to my account a few years ago, and all my history dating back to the early days of this board went away (yet all my IC history remained).  That explains why my IC count is higher, FWIW.  Go Pack!

Fine, but the level of "suck up" at IC is still off the charts.

Wonder why there is 4 games tonight and 0 tomorrow night? Strange.

Oh well, here's hoping for:
State win
Miami win
GT win
BC win

StateFan03 wrote: Wonder why there is 4 games tonight and 0 tomorrow night? Strange.

Oh well, here's hoping for:
State win
Miami win
GT win
BC win

that is the second time that has happened in last few weeks
same thing happened week February 5-10
game on Tuesday the 5th and Thursday the 7th, but no games on Wednesday

I had read that ACC does draft schedule with games on Saturday and Wednesdays and then moves games to Tuesday, Thursday or Sunday based on both building availability and TV.

since TV sets the final schedule, blame them.

It does seem strange

There do seem to be an unusual number of Tuesday games this year... i know because Ive missed 2 games due to being in class!..both losses...WF and UVA

Let's hope all the home teams win tonight!

wolfer79 wrote:

StateFan03 wrote: Wonder why there is 4 games tonight and 0 tomorrow night? Strange.

Oh well, here's hoping for:
State win
Miami win
GT win
BC win

that is the second time that has happened in last few weeks
same thing happened week February 5-10
game on Tuesday the 5th and Thursday the 7th, but no games on Wednesday

I had read that ACC does draft schedule with games on Saturday and Wednesdays and then moves games to Tuesday, Thursday or Sunday based on both building availability and TV.

since TV sets the final schedule, blame them.

It does seem strange

I'm not sure I can ever remember a Tuesday with four games.

Oh yes! Puts us in a nice spot come win or lose Saturday!

---------------------------------------------
--- bige7598 wrote:

Let's hope all the home teams win tonight!

---------------------------------------------

What happens if State and UNC win tonight and UVA losses? A 3 way tie for third? Who is ahead in the tiebreaker there? UNC on top since they beat UVA, UVA behind them and State in last?

Virginia vs NC State (1-0) & unc-ch (1-1) total 2-1
NC State vs Virginia (0-1) & unc-ch (1-0) total 1-1
unc-ch vs Virginia (1-1) & NC State (0-1) total 1-2

wolfpack821 wrote: What happens if State and UNC win tonight and UVA losses? A 3 way tie for third? Who is ahead in the tiebreaker there? UNC on top since they beat UVA, UVA behind them and State in last?

tiebreakers

1. If three or more teams are tied in the standings, the following procedures will be used:
• a. The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records. The higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal (i.e., 2-0 is better than 3-1; 1-0 is the same as 2-0; 2-0 is the same as 4-0; 2-1 is the same as 4-2; 1-0 is better than 1-1; 0-1 is the same as 0-2; 0-2 is the same as 0-4).
• b. If procedure (a) fails to break the tie, then each tied team's record shall be compared to the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage by a higher winning percentage.
• c. If the tie is broken by (a) or (b) regarding one of more teams, but three or more teams remain tied, then procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only.
• d. If two teams remain tied, procedures (1) and (2) will be followed.

Big....HUGE GAME coming up. We win against the Cheats and we look real good for a 3 seed.

UNC game is only game I see left on schedule that could/should be a loss. @FSU could be tough, but @UNC is the only game we won't be favored in from here on out. Win that one and we're 20-7 (9-5) with 4 easily winnable games left. Gotta bring 150% on Saturday.

I see us getting to 24 wins before the ACC Tournament is over....meaning I think coach will improve on last years total. Sad thing is regardless what happens take away some of those bs last second losses and we are a 2-3 seed for sure. Now it's between a 3-6 in my opinion. 

http://www.theacc.com/championships/acc-mens-baske tball-tournament.html


ill take a 2pm or 9 PM matchup on Friday and to be honest would rather UNC finish in the top 4 as to only have to play them in a semi...or quite possibly a championship. Get the 3 or the 4 and we have a good shot at the rematch versus the U. and I would take us huge and have the best St. Patty's Day ever in G boro. 

wolfman82 wrote: UNC game is only game I see left on schedule that could/should be a loss. @FSU could be tough, but @UNC is the only game we won't be favored in from here on out. Win that one and we're 20-7 (9-5) with 4 easily winnable games left. Gotta bring 150% on Saturday.

February 19
Florida State 66
NC State 84

Maryland 58
Boston College 69

unc-ch 70
Georgia Tech 58

Virginia 50
Miami 54


updated standings -ties listed what I think is tiebreaker
Miami 13-0
Duke 9-3
Virginia 8-5 (1-0 vs NC State, 1-1 vs unc-ch) 2-1 total
NC State 8-5 (0-1 vs Virginia, 1-0 vs unc-ch) 1-1 total
unc-ch 8-5 (1-1 vs Virginia, 0-1 vs NC State) 1-2 total
Florida State 6-7 (won both games vs Maryland)
Maryland 6-7 (lost to Florida State both games)
Clemson 5-8
Georgia Tech 4-9 (2-0 vs Wake Forest, 0-0 vs Boston College) 2-0 total
Wake Forest 4-9 (0-2 vs Georgia Tech, 1-1 vs Boston College) 3-1 total, 0-0 vs Miami, 0-2 vs Duke, 1-0 vs Virginia #3 seed
Boston College 4-9 (0-0 vs Georgia Tech, 1-1 vs Wake Forest), 0-2 vs Miami, 0-1 vs Duke, 0-1 vs Virginia
Virginia Tech 2-10


If three or more teams are tied in the standings, the following procedures will be used:
a. The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records. The higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal (i.e., 2-0 is better than 3-1; 1-0 is the same as 2-0; 2-0 is the same as 4-0; 2-1 is the same as 4-2; 1-0 is better than 1-1; 0-1 is the same as 0-2; 0-2 is the same as 0-4).
b. If procedure (a) fails to break the tie, then each tied team's record shall be compared to the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage by a higher winning percentage.
c. If the tie is broken by (a) or (b) regarding one of more teams, but three or more teams remain tied, then procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only.
d. If two teams remain tied, procedures (1) and (2) will be followed.

www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl.../022607aaa.html

wolfchicEE wrote:

ESPN as of Tues night 2/19 ACC Standings (but actually UVa would be ahead of us in ACC Tourney Seeding at this point)

TEAM	CONF	OVERALL
Miami (FL)	13-0	22-3
Duke	9-3	22-3
North Carolina State	8-5	19-7
Virginia	8-5	18-8
North Carolina	8-5	18-8
Maryland	6-7	18-8
Florida State	6-7	14-12
Clemson	5-8	13-12
Georgia Tech	4-9	14-11
Boston College	4-9	12-14
Wake Forest	4-9	11-14
Virginia Tech	2-10	11-14

So we have a 3-way tie for seeds #3-#5.  Remaining schedules are below.

I think Virginia gets the #3 seed.  Their two toughest teams left are at home where they play really well.  State and UNC will battle it out for the #4 seed.



NC State

Sat, Feb 23	@ North Carolina	4:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Wed, Feb 27	vs Boston College	8:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sun, Mar 3	@ Georgia Tech	6:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Wed, Mar 6	vs Wake Forest	9:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sat, Mar 9	@ Florida State	2:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets

Virginia

Sun, Feb 24	vs Georgia Tech	2:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Thu, Feb 28	vs #6 Duke	9:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sun, Mar 3	@ Boston College	4:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Thu, Mar 7	@ Florida State	7:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sun, Mar 10	vs Maryland	6:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets

UNC-CH

Sat, Feb 23	vs North Carolina State	4:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Thu, Feb 28	@ Clemson	7:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sun, Mar 3	vs Florida State	2:00 PM ET CBS	Conversation | Tickets
Wed, Mar 6	@ Maryland	7:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets
Sat, Mar 9	vs #6 Duke	9:00 PM ET	Conversation | Tickets

wlfpck4life wrote: Big week for the Pack!

2-0 and we probably get back in the rankings and are solid for a first round ACC bye
1-1 and we are still out of the rankings but are still in the fight for the first round bye and a solid tourney team
0-2 and we are squarely on the bubble and likely out of the race for a bye.

0-2 out of the realm of possibility!

Win on Saturday and we are very close to having a first round ACCT bye and practically lock up a tourney bid and return to the rankings!  Get it done Pack!

StateFan03 wrote:
So we have a 3-way tie for seeds #3-#5.  Remaining schedules are below.

I think Virginia gets the #3 seed.  Their two toughest teams left are at home where they play really well.  State and UNC will battle it out for the #4 seed.

I agree, but with their style of play they can lose to anyone.  Last night was a huge loss for them and could possibly break their momentum.

Saturday's game is huge.

UVa has essentially the same schedule left as us - with one really tough game (Duke for them, @UNC for us) and four "should wins".  If we both finish 4-1 in this stretch than UVa gets a better seed than us.   If our one loss is to UNC, then even if UNC were to lose to Duke they'd still get a better seed than us, due to the head-to-head record between the three tied teams (UVa 2-1, UNC 2-1, NCSU 1-2). 

So if we lose to UNC then we'd need to win all our "should-win" games and hope either UVa loses a "should-win" game or UNC loses two "should-win games".  Certainly still feasible for us to get 4th seed but we'd need some help.

If we beat UNC though that's pretty much our ticket to first-round bye - most likely with a 3 seed.

I can see us winning out.    I can also see us losing fourth place in the final ACC standings to the Cheats.  Anything is possible with this team.

Hopefully we have turned the corner.  Would love to see the team come out guns ablazing on Saturday and pound them into the ground but that's most likely not going to happen.  We will have to grind out a win but WE WILL WIN!!!

something to consider for NC State @ unc-ch game

---

if unc-ch wins
Virginia (1-1 vs unc-ch, 1-0 vs NC State) 2-1 total
unc-ch (1-1 vs Virginia, 1-1 vs NC State) 2-2 total
NC State (0-1 vs Virginia, 1-1 vs unc-ch) 1-2 total

if NC State wins
Virginia (1-1 vs unc-ch, 1-0 vs NC State) 2-1 total
NC State (0-1 vs Virginia, 2-0 vs unc-ch) 2-1 total
unc-ch (1-1 vs Virginia, 0-2 vs NC State) 1-3 total

then is goes to head to head vs Virginia, which Virginia has tie-breaker

---

tiebreakers

1. If three or more teams are tied in the standings, the following procedures will be used:
• a. The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records. The higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal (i.e., 2-0 is better than 3-1; 1-0 is the same as 2-0; 2-0 is the same as 4-0; 2-1 is the same as 4-2; 1-0 is better than 1-1; 0-1 is the same as 0-2; 0-2 is the same as 0-4).
• b. If procedure (a) fails to break the tie, then each tied team's record shall be compared to the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage by a higher winning percentage.
• c. If the tie is broken by (a) or (b) regarding one of more teams, but three or more teams remain tied, then procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only.
• d. If two teams remain tied, procedures (1) and (2) will be followed.

^ Indeed - though really the last of the two isn't likely - if we beat UNC the chances that we end up in a 3-way tie with UVa & UNC become very slim, due to the remaining schedules of the teams.  The first three-way tie scenario is much more likely between the two.

My preference - don't bother with a tie.  Just win out and we're golden .

FWIW - I wouldn't discount the remote possibility of 2 seed for us IF we were to win Saturday.  Duke still has a tough schedule left - @UVa, vs Miami, and @UNC.  If we beat UNC and they lose two of those three then we could end up tied, and I believe we'd win the head-to-head.  (Though by that token UVa could end up with the 2 seed instead of us)  Not that the difference between 2 and 3 seed really matters.

Anyhow - it's getting to be fun crunch time in the ACC.

sag1804 wrote: I see us getting to 24 wins before the ACC Tournament is over....meaning I think coach will improve on last years total. 

It is a good point that hopefully our total record, and ACC record will  be improved over last year.  Last year going into the ACCT, we were 9-7 in conference, and 20-11 overall.

UVA plays well at home but don't overlook the fact that UVA is awful on the road.  So far this year they have lost at Wake, Clemson, GT, UNC and Miami.  With games still at BC and FSU there is a good chance of another loss.  The only road game UVA has won was at VT.  And then 2 homes games against Duke and Maryland are going to be tough.  I'll go ahead and put GT at home in the win column though.

Upshot of all the rules, remaining schedule, etc. to me is, barring a "major" upset of one of the three teams (i.e. like us losing at home to BC, or UNC losing at home to someone like FSU), we have just about an impossible road to a Thursday ACC Tourney bye if we don't win on Saturday...

I am sure Gott is making the team aware of that, and I sure hope Calvin is ready to take on PJ Hairston.  (was it Hairston who absolutely torched us in the 2nd half in Raleigh from the 3-pt. line?)

Even at home UVA will be hard pressed to beat Dook.
At BC will be a nightmare for them as it is with everyone in that atmosphere. Two similar teams with BC having the home advantage. They missed their opportunity at unc and at Miami.

89Gradv2 wrote: Upshot of all the rules, remaining schedule, etc. to me is, barring a "major" upset of one of the three teams (i.e. like us losing at home to BC, or UNC losing at home to someone like FSU), we have just about an impossible road to a Thursday ACC Tourney bye if we don't win on Saturday...

I am sure Gott is making the team aware of that, and I sure hope Calvin is ready to take on PJ Hairston.  (was it Hairston who absolutely torched us in the 2nd half in Raleigh from the 3-pt. line?)

Rest assured, Bullock and Hairston will combine for 10+ 3 pointers on Saturday.

wlfpck4life wrote:

wlfpck4life wrote: Big week for the Pack!

2-0 and we probably get back in the rankings and are solid for a first round ACC bye
1-1 and we are still out of the rankings but are still in the fight for the first round bye and a solid tourney team
0-2 and we are squarely on the bubble and likely out of the race for a bye.

0-2 out of the realm of possibility!

Win on Saturday and we are very close to having a first round ACCT bye and practically lock up a tourney bid and return to the rankings!  Get it done Pack!

Barring a collapse we've already locked up a tourney bid. Not sure where people get those kinds of ridiculous ideas.

UNC at MD. will be a real challenge for the Holes. I would think the Twerps might even be favored in that one.

SidsSouljahBoy wrote:

wlfpck4life wrote:

wlfpck4life wrote: Big week for the Pack!

2-0 and we probably get back in the rankings and are solid for a first round ACC bye
1-1 and we are still out of the rankings but are still in the fight for the first round bye and a solid tourney team
0-2 and we are squarely on the bubble and likely out of the race for a bye.

0-2 out of the realm of possibility!

Win on Saturday and we are very close to having a first round ACCT bye and practically lock up a tourney bid and return to the rankings!  Get it done Pack!

Barring a collapse we've already locked up a tourney bid. Not sure where people get those kinds of ridiculous ideas.

I consider a "lock" when we can lose the rest of the games and still make the tournament.

i won't rib you too much on this one because I thought it would be single-digits at least, but I hope you see now how we are far superior to the likes of FSU.  And I'd encourage you as a fellow State fan to revel in the quality of our team.  It's been decades since we were a national threat, and make no mistake, we are now.

jrauman wrote: I'm an NCSU alumn ('93).   Married to a UNC grad ('92/'94).  Proudly wear my NCSU colors and enjoy every single UNC loss almost as much as an NCSU win (although I have to be nice around the spouse)    I enjoy discussing hoops with other fanbases (in a civil manner). 

Re: my comments. I've not seen any evidence that the FSU game will be anything but a close game and a last second decision.  Wish it were otherwise, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it's a easy win for NCSU over FSU.

It's looking better and better for us as the games unfold! Tied for third! Duke likely to win their next two, but then it gets tough for them.  I feel totally confident in third at least, but second is still a legitimate possibility.

packnplay wrote: One down, two to go.

packnplay wrote: Actually, I think we have a realistic shot at catching Duke for second.  If we win out (which is at the very least quite possible).  Remember, Duke was one blown no-call away from losing at BC.  It's not like they just blow everyone out.  Besides, I think they're going to start cooling down just a bit after peaking against us in the first half.  They weren't that good against UNC.

Duke's remaining schedule:
@ Md - this one could be a loss for Duke.  Big emotional win followed by going on the road against a team that hates you, and has talent.  Duke should win, but they could lose.
@ VT - win
BC - win
@ UVa - definitely a losable game for Duke
Miami - same
VT - win
@UNC - definitely losable, as we saw the other night

Are we likely to catch Duke? No.  But it is not outside the realm of possibility; only 3 games between us.

If we tie them, we split head-to-head.  Is the next tie-breaker determined by which of the two lost to the highest rated team?

 

February 21
Duke 88
Virginia Tech 56

updated standings -ties listed what I think is tiebreaker
Miami 13-0
Duke 10-3
Virginia 8-5 (1-0 vs NC State, 1-1 vs unc-ch) 2-1 total
NC State 8-5 (0-1 vs Virginia, 1-0 vs unc-ch) 1-1 total
unc-ch 8-5 (1-1 vs Virginia, 0-1 vs NC State) 1-2 total
Florida State 6-7 (won both games vs Maryland)
Maryland 6-7 (lost to Florida State both games)
Clemson 5-8
Georgia Tech 4-9 (2-0 vs Wake Forest, 0-0 vs Boston College) 2-0 total
Wake Forest 4-9 (0-2 vs Georgia Tech, 1-1 vs Boston College) 3-1 total, 0-0 vs Miami, 0-2 vs Duke, 1-0 vs Virginia #3 seed
Boston College 4-9 (0-0 vs Georgia Tech, 1-1 vs Wake Forest), 0-2 vs Miami, 0-1 vs Duke, 0-1 vs Virginia
Virginia Tech 2-11


If three or more teams are tied in the standings, the following procedures will be used:
a. The combined record of conference games between the tied teams involved will be compiled. Ties will be broken, and seedings assigned, based on the winning percentage of the combined conference records. The higher winning percentage shall prevail, even if the number of games played against the team or group is unequal (i.e., 2-0 is better than 3-1; 1-0 is the same as 2-0; 2-0 is the same as 4-0; 2-1 is the same as 4-2; 1-0 is better than 1-1; 0-1 is the same as 0-2; 0-2 is the same as 0-4).
b. If procedure (a) fails to break the tie, then each tied team's record shall be compared to the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage by a higher winning percentage.
c. If the tie is broken by (a) or (b) regarding one of more teams, but three or more teams remain tied, then procedures (a) and (b) will be reapplied among those tied teams only.
d. If two teams remain tied, procedures (1) and (2) will be followed.

www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl.../022607aaa.html

Looking at the Bracket, getting the #3 seed would be huge:

• The #4 seed plays the #5 seed on Friday.
• The #4 / #5 winner plays Miami on Saturday.
• Where as the #3 seed gets someone like Fla St. on Friday, and then Duke on Saturday.

4 seed often faces the 12th seed (or at least that has happened more than a few times in the past)

4th seed has the best set up of games to me - Friday at 2(more like 2:30) - then Saturday at 1 - then (hopefully) Sunday at 1.

I would prefer the 4th seed (though I would much rather win out and be whatever seed 13-5 gives us) in terms of setup. I would rather play Miami fresh on Saturday than on Sunday as our 3rd game in 3 days.

We lost by one point to Miami playing without Zo - I think that rested we can beat them on a nuetral/(half home) court with Zo.

GO PACK!!! BEAT THE CHEATS!!!!!

OK, we all know it will be damn near impossible to win tourney finishing in that 5 slot so someone between UNC, UVA, and NCSU will be left out in the cold.  No disrespect to Maryland but after Duke and Miami, two of these three will finish 3rd and 4th.  One will be 5th and heartbroken.

Who has the inside track here or rather who has the worst shot of making that 3 or 4 slot?

UNC:  @ Clemson @ Maryland  Duke FSU and NCSU

Hardest win to get:  Duke

UVA: @BC  @FSU  Maryland  Duke and GT

Hardest win to get: Duke

NCSU: @UNC @GT @FSU  BC and WF

Hardest win to get:  @UNC

Predictions:
1. Duke will be 2nd favorite team in the next two weeks.  If they can beat UNC and UVA that will help TREMENDOUSLY.  I think it will happen.

2. IF we beat UNC I think we are in the 4 spot at minimum.  That momentum will carry us the rest of the way even if we lose to let's say, FSU.

3. Maryland will also play a huge role.  We need them to beat at least UVA or UNC but I think they have a better shot at home vs UNC.   

Predictions:  UNC 3-2
                   UVA 3-2
                   NCSU 3-2

Therefore, can someone please tell me what they would do if we all finished 11-7? After head to head what tie breakers would they use? Where would we all end up if Duke beats UNC and UVA in the remaining games?  Thanks guys!