gravis wrote:
^ What game did you watch? Eades was awful. Never consistant. One time a touch foul is whistled, next time a mugging isn't.

gravis wrote:
^ What game did you watch? Eades was awful. Never consistant. One time a touch foul is whistled, next time a mugging isn't.

packfan01 wrote: Which one of these crews are ACC?  I don't know enough names to know.

Howell's Fouls
Miami, OH -- 2 (Officials: Sean Casady, Louie Andrakakos, Ray Natili)
Penn St. -- 2 (Officials: John Hughes, Bret Smith, Rick Crawford)
UMass -- 4 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Rod Dixon, Mark Schnur)
Ok. St -- 5 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Gerry Pollard, Lamont Simpson)
UNCA -- 2 (Officials: Ray Perone, Tim Comer, Les Jones)
Michigan -- 5 (Officials: Ted Valentine, Terry Wymer, Lamont Simpson)
UConn -- 0 (Officials: Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Tony Greene)
Clev. St. -- 1 (Officials: Sean Casady, Tim Comer, William Humes)
Norfolk St -- 3 (Officials: Bill Covington Jr., Les Jones, Frank Raposo)
Stanford -- 3 (Officials: Chris Rastatter, Jeff Wooten, Joe Derosa)
St. Bonn. -- 5 (Officials: Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades)

camvilpack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- graywolf4life wrote:

Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

---------------------------------------------

I swear to Buddha, when will State fans stop blaming the refs?? It really is embarrassing that we still have fans who do this. EVERY TEAM'S FANS complain about refs. Nobody likes it when they think their players got 3 more fouls called than the other team. Take off your ********* rose colored glasses. There were numerous times today when I couldn't believe our guys weren't called for fouls down low. It goes both ways. The other night when we shot a billion more free throws than Stanford - I'm sure their fans were bitching a moaning, too.

You people who complain about refs after every game look like ******* *******. We won this game going away and people are STILL complaining about the refs!!!! Un-*******-believable.

crusherl wrote:

packfan01 wrote: Which one of these crews are ACC?  I don't know enough names to know.

Howell's Fouls
Miami, OH -- 2 (Officials: Sean Casady, Louie Andrakakos, Ray Natili)
Penn St. -- 2 (Officials: John Hughes, Bret Smith, Rick Crawford)
UMass -- 4 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Rod Dixon, Mark Schnur)
Ok. St -- 5 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Gerry Pollard, Lamont Simpson)
UNCA -- 2 (Officials: Ray Perone, Tim Comer, Les Jones)
Michigan -- 5 (Officials: Ted Valentine, Terry Wymer, Lamont Simpson)
UConn -- 0 (Officials: Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Tony Greene)
Clev. St. -- 1 (Officials: Sean Casady, Tim Comer, William Humes)
Norfolk St -- 3 (Officials: Bill Covington Jr., Les Jones, Frank Raposo)
Stanford -- 3 (Officials: Chris Rastatter, Jeff Wooten, Joe Derosa)
St. Bonn. -- 5 (Officials: Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades)

ACC Refs: Ray Natili, Les Jones, Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades

Today's crew was the only all ACC crew so far.

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

gravis wrote:
^ What game did you watch? Eades was awful. Never consistant. One time a touch foul is whistled, next time a mugging isn't.

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.
Howell gets in foul trouble because he commits fouls.  That's pretty simple.  Maybe sometimes he gets caught retaliating for another foul, but that's common in sports, and not special for Howell.  The info on the NCAA refs, including those who happen to do ACC games, is at Statsheet.com, and that's a neutral site, not under the control of the great conspiracy.

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.
Howell gets in foul trouble because he commits fouls.  That's pretty simple.  Maybe sometimes he gets caught retaliating for another foul, but that's common in sports, and not special for Howell.  The info on the NCAA refs, including those who happen to do ACC games, is at Statsheet.com, and that's a neutral site, not under the control of the great conspiracy.

criticalproblems wrote: Lewis got called for fouls even quicker that Howell did

camvilpack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- graywolf4life wrote:

Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

---------------------------------------------

I swear to Buddha, when will State fans stop blaming the refs?? It really is embarrassing that we still have fans who do this. EVERY TEAM'S FANS complain about refs. Nobody likes it when they think their players got 3 more fouls called than the other team. Take off your ********* rose colored glasses. There were numerous times today when I couldn't believe our guys weren't called for fouls down low. It goes both ways. The other night when we shot a billion more free throws than Stanford - I'm sure their fans were bitching a moaning, too.

You people who complain about refs after every game look like ******* *******. We won this game going away and people are STILL complaining about the refs!!!! Un-*******-believable.

Bryanth1a wrote: I've enjoyed watching Howell dominate this season but he'll get no sympathy from me. He's been in the ACC for four years now. He should know by now that he's not going to get away with stupid reach-in fouls. He has to play smart, play like an experienced senior.

Loucouldcoach wrote:

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.
Howell gets in foul trouble because he commits fouls.  That's pretty simple.  Maybe sometimes he gets caught retaliating for another foul, but that's common in sports, and not special for Howell.  The info on the NCAA refs, including those who happen to do ACC games, is at Statsheet.com, and that's a neutral site, not under the control of the great conspiracy.

Say what ?



You may want to email John Clougherty and let him know

camvilpack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- graywolf4life wrote:

Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

---------------------------------------------

I swear to Buddha, when will State fans stop blaming the refs?? It really is embarrassing that we still have fans who do this. EVERY TEAM'S FANS complain about refs. Nobody likes it when they think their players got 3 more fouls called than the other team. Take off your ********* rose colored glasses. There were numerous times today when I couldn't believe our guys weren't called for fouls down low. It goes both ways. The other night when we shot a billion more free throws than Stanford - I'm sure their fans were bitching a moaning, too.

You people who complain about refs after every game look like ******* *******. We won this game going away and people are STILL complaining about the refs!!!! Un-*******-believable.

The overall quality of officials working the in ACC has steadlity decreased for years. Back when I first started officiating BB & FB in 1972 - ACC BB officials were widely thought of as by far the best in the country. That is simply no longer true. At that time officials generally worked only 1 or 2 conferences. Today they work all over the place and work far mor games than they should. ACC FB officials were never considered to be very good.

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.

RaleighBound wrote:I've been critical of the ACC refs for good reason, but if the rest of the games are refereed like the bonnie game, I feel hopeful for the season.

Planet Boulder wrote:

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.

Yes, you do keep repeating it. Over and over and over and over and over and over.

If you feel that you haven't made an impact by now with your posts, why do you feel the need to continue to post it over and over and over and over and over? Are you really that dead set on ensuring that everyone on planet earth gets this?

1321wolf wrote:

Planet Boulder wrote:

Engineer65 wrote:

graywolf4life wrote: Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

I keep repeating this, but some people are a little slow to absorb and understand.  There are no ACC refs.  The guys who officiated this game officiate other ACC games, but the majority of their assignments are NOT in the ACC.  Ray Natili, for example does only about a third of his games for the ACC.  It's not that hard to find the stats.

Yes, you do keep repeating it. Over and over and over and over and over and over.

If you feel that you haven't made an impact by now with your posts, why do you feel the need to continue to post it over and over and over and over and over? Are you really that dead set on ensuring that everyone on planet earth gets this?

There is nothing to "get". The fact that the ACC does not hire and retain referees solely for its own use in ACC games is just a technicality that doesn't change much. Using the shorthand notation "ACC refs" is just a simpler way of stating the facts as they exist. The fact is, the ACC selects and manages the referees who do ACC games, and keeps using them for ACC games as long as they conform to the wishes of the ACC - in other words, call the game the way the ACC wants it called. That is what John Clougherty does. He would not have a job if that was not the case. 

Claiming that there is no such thing as an ACC ref is not understanding - I think willfully -  how the system actually works.

We've been through this before.

camvilpack wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- MattNicholson wrote:

camvilpack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- graywolf4life wrote:

Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

---------------------------------------------

I swear to Buddha, when will State fans stop blaming the refs?? It really is embarrassing that we still have fans who do this. EVERY TEAM'S FANS complain about refs. Nobody likes it when they think their players got 3 more fouls called than the other team. Take off your ********* rose colored glasses. There were numerous times today when I couldn't believe our guys weren't called for fouls down low. It goes both ways. The other night when we shot a billion more free throws than Stanford - I'm sure their fans were bitching a moaning, too.

You people who complain about refs after every game look like ******* *******. We won this game going away and people are STILL complaining about the refs!!!! Un-*******-believable.

I remember many of us coming on this same board and complimenting how good the Pac-12 crew was that called our game vs Stanford.  They let the kids play and didn't insert themselves in the game.  They disappeared into the background, just as they should.

The ACC refs have been horrible for a long, long time and they are not getting better, although it appears they are not getting worse so we should be thankful for small things I suppose.  The argument from the blues is always "well they called a bunch of junk on us too...." Well, OK, let's look at that.  When the ref calls 25 fouls on each team, you might say there was no advantage given.  But when some schools just run another Burger Boy in off the back of the bench wen their starter fouls out and we're left deciding between Larry, Curly or Moe, who has the advantage then?  This is not a contest of who stockpiled the most talent, which is EXACTLY what ACC games turn into due to horrendous officiating across the board.

---------------------------------------------

Stanford game: I don't recall the exact disparity but the number of fouls called against Stanford was significantly more than us. Now, you are saying "Whew, finally some non-ACC refs calling a fair game!" Now put us in Stanford's jerseys and UNC in our jerseys. You would have been screaming "See!!! I told you there was bias!!! UNC gets all the calls!!!". But you weren't saying that because you wear rose colored glasses.

My point is every team's fans thinks the refs are against their team. It's not just us. Calls go both ways. Sure, you can pick out one or two calls here and there (like the non-charge call at the end of the UNC game last year) that you think show blatant bias. But it's easy to say that when you can pause and rewind and watch every play in slow motion. You try to get out there and call every single foul the 100% correct way, at full speed. It's impossible.

1321wolf wrote:

Technically this may be true, however the officials that work ACC games come under the supervision of Clougherty. The numbers were broken down last year and it showed that the same refs called more fouls in ACC games than the same refs called in other conference games, by a significant margin. This has already been covered. The moral of the story is the ACC tells the officials that call ACC games HOW to call the game. Those that don't follow instructiuons don't work ACC games any more.

We've been over all of this before, some people just don't want to listen.

WolfPackIsBack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- UncleEvan wrote:

camvilpack wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- graywolf4life wrote:

Up to this point Richard Howell has performed up to and exceeding his potential.  Today, enter ACC refs and what happens?  He spends a lot of time on the pine.  The attitude of ACC officials towards Howell is really revolting.

---------------------------------------------

I swear to Buddha, when will State fans stop blaming the refs?? It really is embarrassing that we still have fans who do this. EVERY TEAM'S FANS complain about refs. Nobody likes it when they think their players got 3 more fouls called than the other team. Take off your ********* rose colored gl*****. There were numerous times today when I couldn't believe our guys weren't called for fouls down low. It goes both ways. The other night when we shot a billion more free throws than Stanford - I'm sure their fans were bitching a moaning, too.

You people who complain about refs after every game look like ******* *******. We won this game going away and people are STILL complaining about the refs!!!! Un-*******-believable.

---------------------------------------------

Holy LOLLER. Well done UE!

crusherl wrote:

packfan01 wrote: Which one of these crews are ACC?  I don't know enough names to know.

Howell's Fouls
Miami, OH -- 2 (Officials: Sean Casady, Louie Andrakakos, Ray Natili)
Penn St. -- 2 (Officials: John Hughes, Bret Smith, Rick Crawford)
UMass -- 4 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Rod Dixon, Mark Schnur)
Ok. St -- 5 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Gerry Pollard, Lamont Simpson)
UNCA -- 2 (Officials: Ray Perone, Tim Comer, Les Jones)
Michigan -- 5 (Officials: Ted Valentine, Terry Wymer, Lamont Simpson)
UConn -- 0 (Officials: Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Tony Greene)
Clev. St. -- 1 (Officials: Sean Casady, Tim Comer, William Humes)
Norfolk St -- 3 (Officials: Bill Covington Jr., Les Jones, Frank Raposo)
Stanford -- 3 (Officials: Chris Rastatter, Jeff Wooten, Joe Derosa)
St. Bonn. -- 5 (Officials: Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades)

ACC Refs: Ray Natili, Les Jones, Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades

Today's crew was the only all ACC crew so far.

MisterRee wrote:

1321wolf wrote:

Technically this may be true, however the officials that work ACC games come under the supervision of Clougherty. The numbers were broken down last year and it showed that the same refs called more fouls in ACC games than the same refs called in other conference games, by a significant margin. This has already been covered. The moral of the story is the ACC tells the officials that call ACC games HOW to call the game. Those that don't follow instructiuons don't work ACC games any more.

We've been over all of this before, some people just don't want to listen.

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/ 2012/03/07/referee-comparison-by-conference/

I couldn't get the link to work, came up with an error. Can't seem to find any archives on their site.

1321wolf wrote:

MisterRee wrote:

1321wolf wrote:

Technically this may be true, however the officials that work ACC games come under the supervision of Clougherty. The numbers were broken down last year and it showed that the same refs called more fouls in ACC games than the same refs called in other conference games, by a significant margin. This has already been covered. The moral of the story is the ACC tells the officials that call ACC games HOW to call the game. Those that don't follow instructiuons don't work ACC games any more.

We've been over all of this before, some people just don't want to listen.

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/ 2012/03/07/referee-comparison-by-conference/

I couldn't get the link to work, came up with an error. Can't seem to find any archives on their site.

I get an error on that link too. I did a search on "comparison by conference" it was one of the first 5 or so articles

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/ 2012/03/07/referee-comparison-by-conference/

crusherl wrote:

packfan01 wrote: Which one of these crews are ACC?  I don't know enough names to know.

Howell's Fouls
Miami, OH -- 2 (Officials: Sean Casady, Louie Andrakakos, Ray Natili)
Penn St. -- 2 (Officials: John Hughes, Bret Smith, Rick Crawford)
UMass -- 4 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Rod Dixon, Mark Schnur)
Ok. St -- 5 (Officials: Kipp Kissinger, Gerry Pollard, Lamont Simpson)
UNCA -- 2 (Officials: Ray Perone, Tim Comer, Les Jones)
Michigan -- 5 (Officials: Ted Valentine, Terry Wymer, Lamont Simpson)
UConn -- 0 (Officials: Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Tony Greene)
Clev. St. -- 1 (Officials: Sean Casady, Tim Comer, William Humes)
Norfolk St -- 3 (Officials: Bill Covington Jr., Les Jones, Frank Raposo)
Stanford -- 3 (Officials: Chris Rastatter, Jeff Wooten, Joe Derosa)
St. Bonn. -- 5 (Officials: Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades)

ACC Refs: Ray Natili, Les Jones, Ed Corbett, Bryan Kersey, Sean Hull, Tim Kelly, Mike Eades

Today's crew was the only all ACC crew so far.