TruthBKnownReturns wrote: I'm going to defend TOB's record, but only as far as I would defend ANY other coach.  People use his overall record at State against him.  But you have to remember, when TOB took over, the cupboard was BARE, and only got more bare for a year or two.  It takes a while to pull recruiting out of a ditch (not that TOB ever did...)  But his first year or two should not be held against him.  That's why the 22-26 record alone (or whatever it was) is not necessarily an accurate measuring stick.

I'll give an example.  TOB could have won just TWO more games this year, finished with a 24-24 record (still a lousy record, right?)  But his last three seasons would have been 9-, 8- and 9-win seasons, respectively.  Would anyone REALLY complain about the 24-24 record if that had happened?

This is not a woulda/coulda/shoulda argument supporting TOB.  I'm just illustrating that if that had happened, we STILL would have a lousy conference record.  Point being, it was more lousy in the first 2-3 years, but improved after that. That record alone is not enough to judge him.  Where he started and where he finished is more important.

I'm glad he's gone.  I like CDD.  I think TOB was stagnating, and had the program heading in the wrong direction.  But my opinion about TOB has little to do with his 22-26 record.  I realize we suffered some extra losses in his first couple of years for which I do not hold him responsible.

CDD could have a 6-6 record this year (or worse).  I sure hope people aren't ready to run HIM out of town if that happens.  Football coaches need 3 years minimum before we can accurately judge their job performance.

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

wolfer79 wrote:

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

you are someone

ribread wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

you are someone

From 1992 to 2012, NC State is .470 (79-89) against teams currently in the ACC.  Against teams from the other division 1 conferences, we are .593.

We're a paltry 2-7 in the last 20 years against the SEC.  That's actually the only D1 conference that we've played that we have a losing record against.  

Some quick conclusions about the last 20 years:
- TOB's record was about average for us against ACC opponents.  He was .458 against the ACC and the other coaches were a combined .475.  
- The ACC has been tougher than people think for us.
- We've not had any historical luck against the SEC.  

Against reasonable expectations of NC State football, TOB was pretty much the definition of mediocre with respect to results.  That's exactly what many of us expected when he was hired.

TruthBKnownReturns wrote:

ribread wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

you are someone

From 1992 to 2012, NC State is .470 (79-89) against teams currently in the ACC.  Against teams from the other division 1 conferences, we are .593.

We're a paltry 2-7 in the last 20 years against the SEC.  That's actually the only D1 conference that we've played that we have a losing record against.  

Some quick conclusions about the last 20 years:
- TOB's record was about average for us against ACC opponents.  He was .458 against the ACC and the other coaches were a combined .475.  
- The ACC has been tougher than people think for us.
- We've not had any historical luck against the SEC.  

Against reasonable expectations of NC State football, TOB was pretty much the definition of mediocre with respect to results.  That's exactly what many of us expected when he was hired.

That's also what many BC fans told us we should expect from TOB back when we hired him.

Question is, what is a reasonable expectation for CDD?

TruthBKnownReturns wrote:

ribread wrote:

Against reasonable expectations of NC State football, TOB was pretty much the definition of mediocre with respect to results.  That's exactly what many of us expected when he was hired.

That's also what many BC fans told us we should expect from TOB back when we hired him.

Question is, what is a reasonable expectation for CDD?

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

PhoenixWolf wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- wolfer79 wrote:

PhoenixWolf wrote: Can someone post the ACC records for State football for the past 20 years. It's shocking just how consistently mediocre we've been. Statistically our consistent mediocrity should be near impossible to attain.

As for TOB, great guy and I wish him all the best. I'm sure he wanted to win, but it didn't happen. No ill will from me.

you are someone

---------------------------------------------

Yes, but I'm too lazy too and we have stat gurus who have this stuff ready to go at a moments notice.

ribread wrote:

TruthBKnownReturns wrote:

ribread wrote:

Against reasonable expectations of NC State football, TOB was pretty much the definition of mediocre with respect to results.  That's exactly what many of us expected when he was hired.

That's also what many BC fans told us we should expect from TOB back when we hired him.

Question is, what is a reasonable expectation for CDD?

Truth:  That is a really great question.  I expect we'll get to a high water mark of 9-3/10-2 under DD, but never be ACC champion.  We may have a shot at a BCS at large bid, or a spot in the playoffs (once the playoffs expand to 16 teams, which is where I think things will end up).  Compared to our history and resources, those will be fantastic results.  

I expect the overall record though, for at least the next four years, to be something like .500 to .550 in the ACC.  The deck is kind of stacked against the staff, at least initially IMHO.  It is much easier to take over a team that is oozing with talent and underachieving (see UNC and Fedora) than it is to take over a team that hasn't recruited all that much talent and has relied on "coaching them up" (clearly our model under TOB).

Love Glennon or hate him, he's going to go in the first three rounds of the NFL draft.  That will be hard to replace.  I'm expecting a losing conference record this coming season.

Plus, won't the Atlantic Div have FSU, Clemson and Louisville??  Not an easy road to get to the championship game.

DurtyD wrote: Have there been any comments at all from TOB since his firing?

wrcwolf wrote: Willis ends up in Montreal with the CFL's Alouettes.