ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

Bryanth1a wrote:
LOLOLOLOL...I love it when the old-timers recollect their memories and bring up Jim Brown from the ashes.  The same old dudes who think Bob Cousy would run circles around today's point guards. 

wolfsmack wrote:

wolfsappi wrote: 

that said, I am just glad we are alive for one more week. i dont see us beating the peckers next week but with AD anything is possible.

congrats to the Vikes, theyve played well these last few weeks and are a tough draw.
Glad to see the bears and giants out but they werent playing well and Minnesota is.

Bizarre that our secondary played so poorly after being solid all year. Hopefully Woodson comes back next week. that 3rd and 11 deep in your own end was a backbreaker. Ponder played well though. Hes the wild card. AD will get his yards, esp if he gets 40 carries again.
Just hoping our D will play better and Ponder will float a couple into the cold Lambeau win.
Thought the refs were horrid on both sides.

again, congrats to Minnesota

wolfer79 wrote:

Bryanth1a wrote:
LOLOLOLOL...I love it when the old-timers recollect their memories and bring up Jim Brown from the ashes.  The same old dudes who think Bob Cousy would run circles around today's point guards. 

from a poster who has the greatest stand up comedian of all time as his avatar, the man who was said about old men talking boxing

(let's see what the filter catches, before I edit it)

"THERE WAS ALWAYS ONE NAME IN BOXING THAT YOU COULD BRING UP AND **** EVERYBODY UP RIGHT THEN AND THERE: "BUT WHAT IF HE HAD FOUGHT SUGAR RAY ROBINSON?" AH, ****! AH, WOOO! YOU GONNA **** WITH THE SUGAR? I AIN'T LYING, SUGAR FIGHT SO GOOD IT MAKE YOUR **** HARD!"

PackHack wrote: ---------------------------------------------
--- JamesHenderson wrote:

partizanpack wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

Yep, heard of Jim Brown.  He should have been playing now, not in the days of 240 pound linemen.  He was ahead of his time.

His first 4 years they had 12-game seasons, his final 5 they had 14.

What technicality are you going to hang your hat on in 2 years when AP will have played in just as many games as Jim Brown and still not surpass Jim Brown's career rushing yardage?

It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who
was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

---------------------------------------------

BUTKUS

MApackfan wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:

partizanpack wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

Yep, heard of Jim Brown.  He should have been playing now, not in the days of 240 pound linemen.  He was ahead of his time.

His first 4 years they had 12-game seasons, his final 5 they had 14.

What technicality are you going to hang your hat on in 2 years when AP will have played in just as many games as Jim Brown and still not surpass Jim Brown's career rushing yardage?

It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

You are right; different eras are hard to compare.  You also have to remember that Brown gained his yardage exclusively on natural turf fields that were not as well maintained; many times they are mostly mud.  No domes or turfgrass fields.  And those teams were "run-first" offenses where the defense stacked to stop the run.

But when you watch his highlights and look at per-game yardage, he is simply hard to not rank as #1 all time.

wolfer79 wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:
It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

1965 - 14 team NFL, 8 team AFL
separate and unequal unless until merger

just looking at Pro football HOF list
DL
NFC
Atkins
Jordan
Davis
Page
Eller
Marshall
Jones
Lilly
Olsen


AFC
Bethea
Buchanan

LB
Butkus was rookie in 1965
Nitskchke
Hanburger
Huff
Wilcox

AFC
Bell

packfanstk wrote: Bryant talking out of his arse again.

oldtrenchfighter wrote:

packfanstk wrote: Bryant talking out of his arse again.

again????   lol.

JamesHenderson wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:
It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

1965 - 14 team NFL, 8 team AFL
separate and unequal unless until merger

just looking at Pro football HOF list
DL
NFC
Atkins
Jordan
Davis
Page
Eller
Marshall
Jones
Lilly
Olsen


AFC
Bethea
Buchanan

LB
Butkus was rookie in 1965
Nitskchke
Hanburger
Huff
Wilcox

AFC
Bell

None of those guys were built like a Raji or Ngata clogging up the middle of the LOS.

Just difficult to compare players 40+ years apart.  Football is too different.

waynewolf wrote: 1. Bo Jackson
2. Jim Brown
3. Marion Motley
.
.
.
.Others

waynewolf wrote: 1. Bo Jackson
2. Jim Brown
3. Marion Motley
.
.
.
.Others

JamesHenderson wrote:

wolfer79 wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:
It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

1965 - 14 team NFL, 8 team AFL
separate and unequal unless until merger

just looking at Pro football HOF list
DL
NFC
Atkins
Jordan
Davis
Page
Eller
Marshall
Jones
Lilly
Olsen


AFC
Bethea
Buchanan

LB
Butkus was rookie in 1965
Nitskchke
Hanburger
Huff
Wilcox

AFC
Bell

None of those guys were built like a Raji or Ngata clogging up the middle of the LOS.

Just difficult to compare players 40+ years apart.  Football is too different.

RaleighWolves wrote: this may have been pointed out already but i did not see
Dickerson supposedly achieved his +2100 yards in only fourteen games versus today's sixteen, big difference if so.

as for the lineman size sidebar, the nfl should actually cap the weight of these guys, imho, as i would rather see an RG3 tearup the field then be injured by some tugboat dude, pokin along and diving at last second into an entertaining player...no fatties

Bryanth1a wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

LOLOLOLOL...I love it when the old-timers recollect their memories and bring up Jim Brown from the ashes.  The same old dudes who think Bob Cousy would run circles around today's point guards. 

ThomYorkepack wrote:

Bryanth1a wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

LOLOLOLOL...I love it when the old-timers recollect their memories and bring up Jim Brown from the ashes.  The same old dudes who think Bob Cousy would run circles around today's point guards. 

Old timers?  LOL

Good Lord....Jim Brown is clearly one of the greatest football players of all time.   I've never said squat about Bob Cousy.  Cousy and Jim Brown aren't even in the same universe when it comes to dominance of their respective sports.   Brown is a transcendent player in NFL history, almost like a Wilt Chamberlain to make a basketball analogy.

ThomYorkepack wrote:

Bryanth1a wrote:

ThomYorkepack wrote: Uh, there is a guy named Jim Brown that played. You may have heard of him.

He played when the NFL had 12 game seasons...and he still rushed for over 12,000 yards. 9th all time. Averaged 104.3 YPG (still first all time), and 5.2 YPC for his career. Led the NFL in rushing EIGHT times.

I'd rate Brown a clear number one, with Payton, Sanders, Smith, Simpson behind him. AP is great, and may well end up in the top 5, but right now he's not.

LOLOLOLOL...I love it when the old-timers recollect their memories and bring up Jim Brown from the ashes.  The same old dudes who think Bob Cousy would run circles around today's point guards. 

Old timers?  LOL

Good Lord....Jim Brown is clearly one of the greatest football players of all time.   I've never said squat about Bob Cousy.  Cousy and Jim Brown aren't even in the same universe when it comes to dominance of their respective sports.   Brown is a transcendent player in NFL history, almost like a Wilt Chamberlain to make a basketball analogy.

All you can do when comparing eras is to judge what a player did relative to his peers at the time he played.   That's what league-indexed stats are for.   Did Brown play at a time in the NFL when the D-lineman were as big and skilled as they are now?  No, but there plenty of great defensive linemen and LBs in the NFL during the 60s.  Brown wasn't just 'good'. He annihilated the competition.  He dominated the league like no RB has before or after.   To just dismiss him because 'he's old' is so utterly uninformed and ridiculous, I can't even take that point of view seriously.

packfanstk wrote: I say Emmitt Smith is the closest thing to Jim Brown I've ever seen because he could and DID do every job on the field a RB should do, and did it without complaint. It's not just that he gained a lot of yards, but he also pass blocked, he even occasionally run blocked, he played every down regardless of down and distance situation, he was a good receiver out of the backfield, he played hurt, never dogged it or took a play off, he never avoided contact, he ran with both speed and power, held on to the ball......he even threw a touchdown pass. He did everything he was asked to do and he carried himself with total class. I'd take Emmitt Smith over everyone BUT Jim Brown every time.

wolfer79 wrote:

JamesHenderson wrote:
It's hard to compare players across diff. eras.  In 1965, who was the JJ Watt or BJ Raji that was hanging all over AP yesterday?

1965 - 14 team NFL, 8 team AFL
separate and unequal unless until merger

just looking at Pro football HOF list
DL
NFC
Atkins
Jordan
Davis
Page
Eller
Marshall
Jones
Lilly
Olsen


AFC
Bethea
Buchanan

LB
Butkus was rookie in 1965
Nitskchke
Hanburger
Huff
Wilcox

AFC
Bell

packfanstk wrote: Bryant talking out of his arse again. You might want to refine your comparison. Bob Cousy????? Please. Jim Brown was to running backs what Pete Maravich was to ballhandlers, Wayne Gretzky to hockey centers, Jack Nicklaus to golfers, and Patsy Cline to female country singers--the one that pushed the bar up so monumentally that he (or she) is still rightly the one against which every subsequent contender is measured. Peterson, Dickerson, et al are all great runners. They also all still trail Jim Brown. I've seen them all, and IMHO only Emmitt Smith comes close. And I am neither a Browns nor a Cowboys fan.

wrcwolf wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- JamesHenderson wrote:

The change in blocking rules (extend arms into defender) and defensive coverage (couldn't beat the receiver up downfield) eventually led to an easier passing game, which we see today. You can easily make a case that offensive statistics in the "old days" are more impressive than today's by the rules of the game alone.

BostonWolf wrote:

packfanstk wrote: Bryant talking out of his arse again. You might want to refine your comparison. Bob Cousy????? Please. Jim Brown was to running backs what Pete Maravich was to ballhandlers, Wayne Gretzky to hockey centers, Jack Nicklaus to golfers, and Patsy Cline to female country singers--the one that pushed the bar up so monumentally that he (or she) is still rightly the one against which every subsequent contender is measured. Peterson, Dickerson, et al are all great runners. They also all still trail Jim Brown. I've seen them all, and IMHO only Emmitt Smith comes close. And I am neither a Browns nor a Cowboys fan.

Bob Cousy would have done just fine in the modern NBA.  He won six championships, was an All Star 13 times and won an MVP.  Next this guy will tell us Bill Russell sucks too. 


In terms of size and talent, John Stockton comes to mind as a rough equivalent.

WolfpackHooligan wrote: Adrian Peterson is the best RB of all time.
Calvin Johnson is the best receiver of all time.

WolfpackHooligan wrote: Adrian Peterson is the best RB of all time.
Calvin Johnson is the best receiver of all time.

WolfBlitz wrote:

wrcwolf wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- JamesHenderson wrote:

The change in blocking rules (extend arms into defender) and defensive coverage (couldn't beat the receiver up downfield) eventually led to an easier passing game, which we see today. You can easily make a case that offensive statistics in the "old days" are more impressive than today's by the rules of the game alone.

These two concepts are extremely important.

Back then OL had to grasp their own jersey at the chest and block with their elbows out. If you extended your arms, you were holding. The DL was also able to bash the hell out of the OL's helmet with their hands, "ringing his bell".

DB's could mug the receiver all the way downfield until the ball was in the air. The five yard check rule came in in the late 70's and the head slap was outlawed.

Different times, different rules but Jim Brown was the man.

WolfpackHooligan wrote: Adrian Peterson is the best RB of all time.
Calvin Johnson is the best receiver of all time.