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RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
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Posted: 1/24/2013 11:27 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
I really liked Prado as a player too, but not at 3rd base. I think his range was really limited and therefore so was his defense. I think ultimately they decided he wasn't going to be worth the high price tag for a less than average fielding 3rd baseman with little power.
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Posted: 1/24/2013 11:30 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
Speaking of baseball...any of you interested in joining a NL Only keeper league? PM me if interested and I'll get you some details.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 12:20 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
WolfpackJAC wrote: Sorry but anyone saying this is a terrible trade for the Braves just doesn't know much about baseball. This is a GREAT trade for the Braves. Based on potential. We'll just have to disagree about how great the trade is. Don't get me wrong, I was hoping the Braves would wind up with J. Upton, but without sacrificing the leadership, consistency, and ability of Prado.
I understand this is where the game turns to business. They weren't going to see eye to eye on his contractual wishes, so it's best to move him, clear salary, and land a potential superstar. It appears that Prado likes the idea of playing in Arizona and will probably be working out an extension soon, but I hope the numbers of that extension don't have Wren or Braves fans kicking themselves.
Prado is a clubhouse leader, heck, the clubhouse leader (after Chippers departure), well liked, a hard nosed gritty/grind it out type of guy who was willing to play wherever he was needed, played excellent defense (regardless of what is said about him, just check out his stats on fangraphs), and only strikes out about 10% of the time (vs. 22% for J. Upton).
J. Upton has tons of potential, but has been described as playing with a "quiet intensity, who plays hard, but must look suave in doing so. Crashing into walls isn't his thing".
I just prefer the all out, all the time type of player. Arizona seems to be implementing a culture and guys that don't fit, like J. Upton or T. Bauer, talent be damned, are being moved.
Prado never finishes a game with a clean uniform and was the only guy I (personally) could count on to willingly slap the ball the other way (Heyward is learning and will probably be in the 2-hole) to get Bourn from first to third to set up a scoring chance. I like watching the "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in" strategy more than waiting on a 3 run HR. Just a difference in styles. |
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Posted: 1/25/2013 12:26 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
packnplay wrote: Yeah, it was kind of like Josh Hamilton before him. A formal tip of the hat to State, but no real commitment. Still, makes me like Justin even more 
ncsuwolfpack13 wrote: It was Justin. He actually signed a LOI. Although it was pretty well known he was going pro. Trot Nixon as well. |
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Posted: 1/25/2013 9:26 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
PBer wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: Ok, OBS...
Justin .355, BJ .295
Bourn .348, Prado .359
---------------------------------------------
--- TVPack wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?
Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?
lol at using batting averages.
---------------------------------------------
Bottom line is this . . . the Braves were never going to get Bourn back, so the need for some additional speed and another defensive player in the outfield outweighed the need for a slightly higher BA/OBS. Do I like losing Prado? Obviously not, but I think this trade addresses a "bigger picture" need. This - espn has an insider article that implies the Braves fleeced the Diamondbacks. Assuming Wren had already offered Prado what he could and was willing to offer - then this is a very good trade. And considering all the positives Prado brings (defensive upgrade at 3rd over Chipper and a guy that just freaking hits the ball consistently) I'm going to assume this is the business of baseball. You just locked in a guy that was in the discussion for MVP twice over the last 3-5 years. And you gave away a potential allstar on a 1 year contract that you've already attempted to extend, a back of the rotation starter without a significant third pitch (to date), a SS that's blocked by a very good young player already in the bigs, and a 1st base prospect that is considered a non-factor. And for a team that struggles with payroll - Upton is locked in for 3. Very good trade.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 9:39 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
I hope the Braves trade for this Upton next..... 
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Posted: 1/25/2013 11:13 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
MattRivNCSU wrote:  Nice ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems poker's just not your game. I know: let's have a spelling contest.
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Posted: 1/26/2013 10:56 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
I just went and looked at the stats for the braves lineup next year, and while I see speed power and pretty good average, I fear that we will set a record for strikeouts. After watching Moneyball about 10 times, getting on base is key element to winning. With Chipper and Prado gone, I wonder who is going to walk and work the pitchers late in count.
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Posted: 1/26/2013 11:02 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Chattwolf wrote: I fear that we will set a record for strikeouts. MLB Network talked about that the day of the trade. Braves set a team record for strikeouts in 2012. replacing Jones (51 with Braves) and Prado (69 with Braves) with Upton (169 with Rays) and Upton (121 with Diamondbacks)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130125&a mp;content_id=41166022&vkey=news_atl&c_id= atl Simply put, Braves hitters strike out a lot. They had four players (Michael Bourn, Freeman, Uggla and Heyward) strike out more than 100 times last season, and only the Washington Nationals and the Pittsburgh Pirates had more (five) in the National League. The Baltimore Orioles led baseball with seven.
Now consider this: B.J. has fanned more than 100 times during each of his six full seasons in the Major Leagues -- and that includes over 160 times during each of the last three years. Justin has struck out more than 100 times during each of his five full seasons.
In addition to Justin, the Braves acquired Chris Johnson in the Prado trade with the D-backs, and Johnson is projected to do much of the heavy lifting at third base in place of Jones.
Johnson struck out 132 times last season.
With both of the Uptons, Johnson, Heyward, Freeman and Uggla in the same lineup, the Braves could challenge the Orioles this year for most players with 100 or more strikeouts.
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
Last edited 1/26/2013 1:34 PM by wolfer79
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Posted: 1/26/2013 1:19 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
You have to like what the Atlanta Braves are doing this offseason. Still, this is huge: With Spring Training approaching and just some roster tweaking remaining, the operative word around the Tomahawk chanters and choppers is "potential." That and "Upton." mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?y...ws_atl&c_id=atl
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 1/26/2013 2:31 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
wolfer79 wrote:
Chattwolf wrote: I fear that we will set a record for strikeouts. MLB Network talked about that the day of the trade. Braves set a team record for strikeouts in 2012.
replacing Jones (51 with Braves) and Prado (69 with Braves) with Upton (169 with Rays) and Upton (121 with Diamondbacks)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl...=20130125&a mp;content_id=41166022&vkey=news_atl&c_id= atl
Simply put, Braves hitters strike out a lot. They had four players (Michael Bourn, Freeman, Uggla and Heyward) strike out more than 100 times last season, and only the Washington Nationals and the Pittsburgh Pirates had more (five) in the National League. The Baltimore Orioles led baseball with seven.
Now consider this: B.J. has fanned more than 100 times during each of his six full seasons in the Major Leagues -- and that includes over 160 times during each of the last three years. Justin has struck out more than 100 times during each of his five full seasons.
In addition to Justin, the Braves acquired Chris Johnson in the Prado trade with the D-backs, and Johnson is projected to do much of the heavy lifting at third base in place of Jones.
Johnson struck out 132 times last season.
With both of the Uptons, Johnson, Heyward, Freeman and Uggla in the same lineup, the Braves could challenge the Orioles this year for most players with 100 or more strikeouts. Having all those players strike out so much is what kept Washington and Baltimore out of the playoffs.  |
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Posted: 1/26/2013 2:38 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
CCjkt wrote:
Having all those players strike out so much is what kept Washington and Baltimore out of the playoffs. the Orioles and Nationals did last longer in the playoffs than the Braves. you may be onto something. 
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 2/2/2013 7:48 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
Sports Illustrated Winter Report Card: Atlanta Braves mlb.si.com/2013/02/01/winter-r...atlanta-braves/
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 2/2/2013 8:42 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
My hope is that getting two new right handed bats and the platooning at 3rd base will allow the Braves to mix their lineup with righties and lefties so well that the strikeouts will be reduced.
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Posted: 2/2/2013 11:13 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Not sure if it will reduce strikeouts, necessarily, but you're right - we certainly can get a good mix of lefty-righty going. Chattwolf wrote: My hope is that getting two new right handed bats and the platooning at 3rd base will allow the Braves to mix their lineup with righties and lefties so well that the strikeouts will be reduced. |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 11:21 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
Underwhelming review. The Upton signings get most of the off-season attn, and rightfully so, but I think a McCann and Uggla resurgence could be just as critical for this team. wolfer79 wrote: Sports Illustrated
Winter Report Card: Atlanta Braves
mlb.si.com/2013/02/01/winter-r...atlanta-braves/ |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 11:24 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Chattwolf wrote: My hope is that getting two new right handed bats and the platooning at 3rd base will allow the Braves to mix their lineup with righties and lefties so well that the strikeouts will be reduced. if a batter is disposed to swing at bad pitches, he will swing at bad pitches no matter if batter ahead or behind him bats from same side of plate or not
football record prediction (2010) 3-9, 1-7 (2011) 5-7, 2-6 (2012) 7-5, 4-4
MBB prediction: (2010-11) 21-9, 10-6 (2011-12) 19-12, 7-9 (2012-13) 24-7, 12-6
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Posted: 2/6/2013 10:48 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
So I wonder how the Chris Johnson/Juan Francisco platoon will stack up numbers-wise to Chipper last year. Think we'll get 20 dingers out of 'em? 75 rbi? Maybe hit around .260?
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Posted: 2/7/2013 10:47 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
I think they hit closer to 30 HRs. There is a lot of power there. But I think hit closer to 230and a ton of Ks without many walks (if hit 8th maybe a little bump in walk rate b/c of pitcher). Also bad on D. Fransico has a cannon, but that is about it. packnplay wrote: So I wonder how the Chris Johnson/Juan Francisco platoon will stack up numbers-wise to Chipper last year. Think we'll get 20 dingers out of 'em? 75 rbi? Maybe hit around .260? Refuse to accept the status quo-Wolfpack Unlimited |
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Posted: 2/7/2013 7:39 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
packnplay wrote: So I wonder how the Chris Johnson/Juan Francisco platoon will stack up numbers-wise to Chipper last year. Think we'll get 20 dingers out of 'em? 75 rbi? Maybe hit around .260? This is the big question now that Prado's gone. Man! Still stinks he's not a Brave anymore! 3B is a question mark defensively more than anything else. Georgian By Birth - Jacket By the Grace of God
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Posted: 2/7/2013 8:48 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Did anyone else read the article about the Braves possibly looking at Scott Rolen. I saw it a couple of weeks ago and have heard nothing more.
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Posted: 2/7/2013 8:52 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
^ I did hear from another source that we ought to inquire about Rolen. (Some studio analyst.) Not sure that we would do that, though. I really think we're counting on Francisco and Johnson. And honestly, I could see some big HR and rbi #s out of those guys. Strike outs, too, but if given the opportunity, I think they could be big for us.
Rolen's way past his prime now. I really don't think he'd be a worthy pick up.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:37 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
For my fellow Braves fans who are interested.............. Here is a free for fun private league I do at yahoo............ feel free to join. 1st come 1st serve.| League ID#: | 24520 | | League Name: | Sandlot Challenge League | | Password: | scl2010 | | Season Type: | Full | | Draft Type: | Live Standard Draft | | Draft Time: | Wed Mar 13 8:00pm EDT [ Add to My Calendar ] |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:52 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Motorcat wrote: For my fellow Braves fans who are interested..............
Here is a free for fun private league I do at yahoo............ feel free to join. 1st come 1st serve.
| League ID#: | 24520 | | League Name: | Sandlot Challenge League | | Password: | scl2010 | | Season Type: | Full | | Draft Type: | Live Standard Draft | | Draft Time: | Wed Mar 13 8:00pm EDT [ Add to My Calendar ] |
There was a problem- There is not room in this league if all teams from last year return. If you were invited to take over an existing team, please click the link in the email you received to join the league. To create a brand new team, get the commissioner to increase the maximum number of teams, or remove teams that will not be returning. (Error #638)
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Posted: 2/11/2013 5:45 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
^ Fixed - its open
Forgot about that when I renewed the league.
Thanks for letting me know.
I'd also be interested in joining a Private Pack Pride League of regular posters if someone starts one.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 9:03 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
@JonHeymanCBS: Bourn gets $48M for 4 yrs plus vesting option that could make it $60M for 5. #tribe
Thank God he is gone.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 11:30 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
abcfan2005 wrote: @JonHeymanCBS: Bourn gets $48M for 4 yrs plus vesting option that could make it $60M for 5. #tribe
Thank God he is gone. Ugh. Braves have been fleeced this offseason. I don't think Bourn was worth the years, but he's a deal at $12MM per season if the alternative is BJ Upton at over $15MM per year. I know I'm in the minority, so I'll get hammered (I've questioned most moves this offseason), but IMO the Braves have made the splashy moves, not necessarily the smart ones. BTW, since ABC is a Nats fan (pretty sure), I think he may be one of the few that actually agree with me.
Last edited 2/11/2013 11:35 PM by packmanncsu
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Posted: 2/11/2013 11:34 PM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Motorcat wrote:
I'd also be interested in joining a Private Pack Pride League of regular posters if someone starts one. Is anyone interested in a keeper league? I had a keeper team a couple of years ago, but was kicked out because I checked my fantasy sports email too late. It'd probably be for more serious baseball fans since prospects can/would be included, but seeing how many we might have out there, 10 or 12 teams is reasonable. |
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Posted: 2/12/2013 12:47 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
^^packman, couldn't agree more. I know we went through this a few weeks ago, but no matter how you paint it... Bourn/Prado > Upton/Upton.
A buddy of mine that is a big Indians fan texted me tonight, and needless to say he was thrilled. Apparently the Mets were close to landing him. That would've sucked.
And yes, I'm pretty excited about our offseason. We made some great additions. Got a great leadoff hitter in Denard Span. Signed Dan Haren, who will be the 4th starter on this staff. And we signed Rafael Soriano, which we desperately needed.
The thing I'm most excited about is having the team healthy. People forget that we rarely had a full lineup last year. Our starting catcher was lost for the season pretty early. Zimm missed a lot of time, as did Werth. Our starting closer was out most of the season. And of course we all know about the Stras situation. All are finally healthy and ready to go. Despite all that, we still, finished with the best record in MLB. (let's not talk about the playoffs)
Last edited 2/12/2013 12:48 AM by abcfan2005
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:08 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
I'm interested in fantasy baseball leagues. Get at me.
And to MB, well.... BYE. Enjoy Cleveland. Get a new agent.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:11 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
Packmann, I would have to agree with you. Most of my Braves friends have been really excited but I think it's more hype than reality. The POSSIBILITY of what the Upton's could do has some upside. But so does EVERY other player in the MLB when you think of what they COULD do. I am just not excited about these moves. I hope I am wrong. I really do. But....when you summarize...Prado was just freakin clutch. All the time. Bourn did falter at the end of the season at the plate, but he was finding a way to get on base. He was our leadoff hitter. We were finally manufacturing runs. That's how you win. we can't wait for HR's all the time. The Braves weak spot for YEARS....a leadoff hitter and first baseman. They had both last year and look at the year they had. I mean of course we had solid pitching, Chipper, yadda yadda yadda.....but those 2 slots have been a thorn in our side. This coming year.....still no leadoff. Ugh. packmanncsu wrote:
abcfan2005 wrote: @JonHeymanCBS: Bourn gets $48M for 4 yrs plus vesting option that could make it $60M for 5. #tribe
Thank God he is gone. Ugh. Braves have been fleeced this offseason. I don't think Bourn was worth the years, but he's a deal at $12MM per season if the alternative is BJ Upton at over $15MM per year. I know I'm in the minority, so I'll get hammered (I've questioned most moves this offseason), but IMO the Braves have made the splashy moves, not necessarily the smart ones.
BTW, since ABC is a Nats fan (pretty sure), I think he may be one of the few that actually agree with me. It's times like these when I think of the immortal words of Socrates who said "I drank what?"
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:23 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
With a lineup containing the 2 Uptons, Uggla, Freeman, Heyward, McCann, and Johnson (3b) we might set an MLB record for most strikeouts in a season. We will hit a lot of homeruns, but we will come up EMPTY a lot.... a WHOLE LOT.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:37 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
Those ^ 7 guys combined for right at 950 Ks by themselves last year, and that is with McCann missing some games to injury. All that speed in the outfield isn't gonna help squat if they can't reach base or nobody can make contact behind them.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:17 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
I grew up in Atlanta, live there again now, and have followed them all my life. I must say that after the last two seasons - the epic September collapse to miss the playoffs in '11, and the play-in game loss to miss the playoffs in '12 - something had to change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Hence the Uptons are brought in. To me it would be a PR disaster if they made no changes, missed the playoffs again, and had to explain that to the fans.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:24 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
Wow, a lot of negativity for a couple of moves that look great in my book.
With the Braves payroll and draft position lately, we were able to go out and get a former #1 and former #2 overall draft picks and have them locked up for at least 3 years. Sure we may strike out, but we will also get a lot of hits, have a strong outfield, and didnt give up a lot of prospects to get them. I am sorry, but sometimes big hitters have big strikeout seasons. I am amazed we were able to get so much talent without breaking our payroll or our prospect stash.
GO BRAVES
"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
Last edited 2/12/2013 11:25 AM by dunlow66
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:30 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
packmanncsu wrote:
I don't think Bourn was worth the years, but he's a deal at $12MM per season if the alternative is BJ Upton at over $15MM per year No way Boras would have taken $12 mill/yr for 4 years for Bourn earlier. This was a last minute desparate move to get him signed. According to reports they wanted more than BJ signed for. Bourn absolutely disappeared in Aug and Sept the past two seasons. He's also very close to being an old-man when it comes to baseball and his biggest asset is his speed. Not a good combination. |
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:39 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
We weren't going to get Bourn without breaking the bank. That was clear from the get go. So we had to pursue other options. Now, MAYBE if we would have sat on our hands we could have re-signed him for 12MM a year, but I doubt Boras' ego would have allowed that. We had to get a CF, and we got Upton. Then we start looking at another outfielder, and Justin pops up as available. Now, maybe Upton/Upton don't outperform Prado/Bourn this year, but we had to do the deals. No use worrying about it now.  ________________________________________________________
"The only thing worse than not getting what you want…Is someone else getting it." Roger Sterling |
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:46 AM
Re: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot Stove"
302ASullivan wrote: We weren't going to get Bourn without breaking the bank. That was clear from the get go. So we had to pursue other options. Now, MAYBE if we would have sat on our hands we could have re-signed him for 12MM a year, but I doubt Boras' ego would have allowed that. We had to get a CF, and we got Upton. Then we start looking at another outfielder, and Justin pops up as available. Now, maybe Upton/Upton don't outperform Prado/Bourn this year, but we had to do the deals. No use worrying about it now. agreed, and it isnt just about what they did last year. Who performs better over the next three season- Upton brothers or Prado/Bourn. I think most MLB teams would take the Uptons any day of the week in that scenario, for three years to come. "Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:58 AM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
ESPN has an article siting Justin as the breakout player of the year for 2013. Timing is everything for a player.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we will be lucky to live through it."
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Posted: 2/12/2013 12:40 PM
RE: Atlanta Braves 2012-2013 Off-Season "Hot
provsoftball wrote: ESPN has an article siting Justin as the breakout player of the year for 2013. Timing is everything for a player. I really hope so. IF the Uptons play up to their potential, and Heyward and Freeman do too, then we will have a very good core of young guys. However there is a lot of real estate between potential and production. Hope they hit it bigtime. |
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