the Uptons both are elite level OF's.  Justin is an upgrade to Prado in left.  BJ and Bourn should be a wash in CF.

We will lose some defense at 3B obviously.  

Offensively.  the potential 30/30 season that the Uptons could each bring is pretty incredible and the obvious is that Prado already turned down a 12$ mil/year contract from ATL, so his time likely would've been done after this year anyway.  

I'm not happy losing Prado, but if he truly wouldn't be here after this season I think this is a definite win.

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

An almost 30 year old Prado was due for a HUGE pay increase after this season and was likely to become a free agent (ie after this season if we wanted to retain Prado, we would be giving him JUpton's current contract).  Delgado was excess goods.  This is a great move.  Justin Upton is one of the top young prospects in the game.

Outfield of Upton, Upton, and Heyward is just

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

lol at using batting averages.

******* terrible trade.

packmanncsu wrote: ******* terrible trade.

Are you a Braves fan?  I'm not sure if any Braves fan can think this is a bad move considering Prado's contract situation.  Please elaborate.

man that really sucks giving up prado. in no way did i think that was going to happen. with the braves over paying for bj upton i figured there was no way they'd balk at giving prado a good deal.

TVPack wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

lol at using batting averages.

Losing Prado is what pisses me off the most.  He is a superior defensive player with more versatility than Justin Upton.  While I wanted the Braves to land him, they paid too much for him, and he is definitely a product of Arizona's ballpark. 

Also, by penciling in Francisco at 3rd now, I don't see a single spot in the lineup that won't have 100 K's.  Prado was a 'glue' guy and Wren just blew it because Upton is younger than and has 2 years of control over Prado, even though Prado would have been cheaper to extend.

I'll stick by my prediction (on the Braves board) of the Braves finishing no higher than 3rd in their division.



I get moving Prado's salary, thus helping the Braves still have approximately $10MM left to make other moves (say, for a third baseman now), but this has been one disappointment after another for me this offseason.

I would have rather them sent that injury prone fat*** McCann packing and signed Pierzynski if they needed the money.  I'm sure Prado would have tested the open market after '13, it just still blows my mind that he was available.  Now there is no proven leadoff or 2-hole hitter, who is actually competent with the bat and knows game situations and how to hit. 

One good thing is if anyone goes to Atlanta to watch them this year during the heat of the summer, the breeze coming from the batters boxes will make it more bearable.

I've been a Braves fan as long as I can remember, so none of that 'questioning of the fandom' stuff, but for me as a fan, this is a definite facepalm on the part of Wren.

Ok, OBS...

Justin .355, BJ .295

Bourn .348, Prado .359

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--- TVPack wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

lol at using batting averages.

---------------------------------------------

You didn't visit the Braves thread much last year, did you?

Packmanncsu is a Braves fan.

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--- wlfpck4life wrote:

packmanncsu wrote: ******* terrible trade.

Are you a Braves fan?  I'm not sure if any Braves fan can think this is a bad move considering Prado's contract situation.  Please elaborate.

---------------------------------------------

abcfan2005 wrote: Ok, OBS...

Justin .355, BJ .295

Bourn .348, Prado .359

---------------------------------------------
--- TVPack wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

lol at using batting averages.

---------------------------------------------

Bottom line is this . . . the Braves were never going to get Bourn back, so the need for some additional speed and another defensive player in the outfield outweighed the need for a slightly higher BA/OBS.  Do I like losing Prado?  Obviously not, but I think this trade addresses a "bigger picture" need.

I'm happy about this trade. Of course it sucks losing Prado but that's part of it. We might not have had him next year anyways. Now we got arguably the best outfield in baseball. And if some key people in the infield step up offensively then the Braves will be a a playoff team and nobody knows what can happen after making playoffs. We have a great rotation that can carry us far. Only time will tell but I think this is a good move.

I texted my buddy, the Uptons being a lot of power to the lineup, can't deny that, but that outfield will have plenty of strikeouts. LOL

Hoping our pitching staff will be able to contribute to that. Should look something like...

Stras
Gio
Zimmermann
Detwiler

We also signed Dan Haren, who i imagine will be third.

We also signed Rafael Soriano last week. Rizzo already announced he will be the closer. Not sure how I feel about that.

I see what your saying PB.

Y'all definitely got younger too.

abcfan2005 wrote: You didn't visit the Braves thread much last year, did you?

Packmanncsu is a Braves fan.

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--- wlfpck4life wrote:

packmanncsu wrote: ******* terrible trade.

Are you a Braves fan?  I'm not sure if any Braves fan can think this is a bad move considering Prado's contract situation.  Please elaborate.

---------------------------------------------

This may be overstating it slightly, but the Braves trading Prado angers me more than MBB losing to WFU, therefore causing the ranting.

PBer wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: Ok, OBS...

Justin .355, BJ .295

Bourn .348, Prado .359

---------------------------------------------
--- TVPack wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You're basically trading Bourn (.274) and Prado (.301) for BJ (.246) and Justin (.280). How is that an upgrade offensively?

Prado played so many positions. How is it an upgrade defensively?

lol at using batting averages.

---------------------------------------------

Bottom line is this . . . the Braves were never going to get Bourn back, so the need for some additional speed and another defensive player in the outfield outweighed the need for a slightly higher BA/OBS.  Do I like losing Prado?  Obviously not, but I think this trade addresses a "bigger picture" need.

Prado is a superior defensive player to J. Upton.  The Braves OF last year was the best defensively in the entire major league.  Link provided in my above rant, the longer one.

No doubt, J. Upton is a run producer, he walks, has more speed, and scores runs, but a lot of his numbers came from playing in Chase Field.  Only 4 players in all of the majors have more dramatic home/road splits than him.  I feel like this thread could wind up earning me an individual title, so I best watch what I say.

packmanncsu wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You didn't visit the Braves thread much last year, did you?

Packmanncsu is a Braves fan.

---------------------------------------------
--- wlfpck4life wrote:

packmanncsu wrote: ******* terrible trade.

Are you a Braves fan?  I'm not sure if any Braves fan can think this is a bad move considering Prado's contract situation.  Please elaborate.

---------------------------------------------

This may be overstating it slightly, but the Braves trading Prado angers me more than MBB losing to WFU, therefore causing the ranting.

I can't keep track of everyone.  And I didn't mean to question your "fandom" lol, I know there are quite a few Braves haters on here.

Prado was a great player for us, but he already turned down a $10M a year deal IIRC.  To me, he isn't worth more than that (and to keep him it would've been something around 12-13 mil a year for a 30+ year old player).  I personally think it was the perfect time to move him and get great value, something that we failed to do with Jair Jurrjens.

You do make an interesting point about McCann above, I would have been fine if we would've gone in that direction as well.

wlfpck4life wrote:

packmanncsu wrote:

abcfan2005 wrote: You didn't visit the Braves thread much last year, did you?

Packmanncsu is a Braves fan.

---------------------------------------------
--- wlfpck4life wrote:

packmanncsu wrote: ******* terrible trade.

Are you a Braves fan?  I'm not sure if any Braves fan can think this is a bad move considering Prado's contract situation.  Please elaborate.

---------------------------------------------

This may be overstating it slightly, but the Braves trading Prado angers me more than MBB losing to WFU, therefore causing the ranting.

I can't keep track of everyone.

Prado was a great player for us, but he already turned down a $10M a year deal IIRC.  To me, he isn't worth more than that.  I personally think it was the perfect time to move him and get great value, something that we failed to do with Jair Jurrjens.

True, he's apparently seeking $11MM+ per year in a long term contract, so that takes the sting off a little bit, but he would still be cheaper than J. Upton over the next 3 years (2013 included) because of the way contract money is staggered. 

J. Upton has potential, but I'd rather have the versatile guy who is more consistent.  Prado looks to be signing an extension with the D'Backs in the coming days, which was one of (if not the) sticking point for approval. 

I guess I should take a few deep breaths, wish for him to kill the Braves and anyone else for that matter when he plays, but the Braves win more.

Adding this due to your edit: 

I'm in the minority, but I just don't feel like McCann is a big time catcher.  The last 3 years or so, there's always been something wrong.  His eyes, his oblique, his shoulder, and even though he is in better shape than he was, he still looks to be in poor shape. 

I'm a fan of Pierzynski, loudmouthed and brash, but somewhat misunderstood.  He's a workhorse and doesn't mind gamesmanship, if he can get you thinking about him, then you're not thinking about the game, the pitcher, the situation, whatever.  I just see McCann in the AL within the next 3-4 years, playing 50 games behind the plate and 100 in the DH slot. 

I could be wrong about everything I've posted here moving forward, but it still stings that this is the 2nd time the Braves have traded my favorite player (slightly stupid for a 31 year old to say that, Murphy was the first) and they'll wind up overpaying McCann for 3 more years of declining results, before eating half of his money and getting a minimal return (think Derek Lowe).

All the stat quotes and Bourn, Prado talk are not taking into account that the Upton brothers are going to be playing together this season. I think this may lead to career years for both guys and the fact that their father, a noted baseball instructor from the Chesapaeke, Va. area,will have greater access to his kids is a Win/Win situation for Atlanta.

Bourn was gone and Prado was coming up on the end of his deal. We have both Uptons for at least the next three seasons at a known salary cost. The Upton brothers are, as mentioned, younger as well. Great trade for Atlanta, although I hate losing Prado, we may not have been able to keep him next year anyway.

Did one of the Uptons actually commit to play at State (before going pro, instead, I mean)? I seem to recall that, but could be wrong.

Lots of good discussion going on here! An exciting move, to say the least! Losing Prado was NOT expected in this trade and definitely hurts.  (Though I will add - he didn't do anything in the playoff game last year, and had a mediocre year before, due to injury).  

I think the most interesting aspect of all this has to do with intangibles.  We lose a "glue" guy, a good clubhouse guy. But on the other hand, we pair two highly dynamic players who as brothers could have monster years together.  Those guys together with Heyward could produce very, very good chemistry.

About McCann, btw -- I totally expect him to have a HUGE year.  Back from injury.  Contract year.  Something to prove.  

Other players involved: would personally prefer to keep Delgado, but Tehran has big upside, too.  Glad we get to keep Ahmed! He could replace Uggla sooner rather than later. And I'm intrigued by this guy Johnson.  I know nothing about him, but his #s are pretty dang good.

One final thought - losing Prado means Heyward, McCann, Hudson and Uggla have got to be good leaders.  They already were, I think, but now without Prado (and Chipper!), there's more need for good leadership.

packnplay wrote: Did one of the Uptons actually commit to play at State (before going pro, instead, I mean)? I seem to recall that, but could be wrong.

Lots of good discussion going on here! An exciting move, to say the least! Losing Prado was NOT expected in this trade and definitely hurts.  (Though I will add - he didn't do anything in the playoff game last year, and had a mediocre year before, due to injury).  

I think the most interesting aspect of all this has to do with intangibles.  We lose a "glue" guy, a good clubhouse guy. But on the other hand, we pair two highly dynamic players who as brothers could have monster years together.  Those guys together with Heyward could produce very, very good chemistry.

About McCann, btw -- I totally expect him to have a HUGE year.  Back from injury.  Contract year.  Something to prove.  

Other players involved: would personally prefer to keep Delgado, but Tehran has big upside, too.  Glad we get to keep Ahmed! He could replace Uggla sooner rather than later. And I'm intrigued by this guy Johnson.  I know nothing about him, but his #s are pretty dang good.

One final thought - losing Prado means Heyward, McCann, Hudson and Uggla have got to be good leaders.  They already were, I think, but now without Prado (and Chipper!), there's more need for good leadership.

Ahmed was part of the deal.  D'backs are wanting to pair him with someone to acquire Porcello from Detroit.  Also, I think you're right about the Upton almost coming to Raleigh.  I think it was going to be B.J., but not sure.

yeah, i just checked the Braves site, which is saying Ahmed goes. Bummer.  (By the way, love seeing Heyward's tweet - "Waking up to Christmas in January."  Sounds giddy!)

So who in the heck is JR Graham?? I know nothing about this guy.  He's our #2 pitching prospect?? I figured that title belonged to Gilmartin.

To Nats fan -- we should have a classic rivalry starting up now! Y'all's pitching is every bit as good as ours, if not better.  Will be interested to see how Detwiler and Minor perform this year.

packmanncsu wrote:

packnplay wrote: Did one of the Uptons actually commit to play at State (before going pro, instead, I mean)? I seem to recall that, but could be wrong.

Lots of good discussion going on here! An exciting move, to say the least! Losing Prado was NOT expected in this trade and definitely hurts.  (Though I will add - he didn't do anything in the playoff game last year, and had a mediocre year before, due to injury).  

I think the most interesting aspect of all this has to do with intangibles.  We lose a "glue" guy, a good clubhouse guy. But on the other hand, we pair two highly dynamic players who as brothers could have monster years together.  Those guys together with Heyward could produce very, very good chemistry.

About McCann, btw -- I totally expect him to have a HUGE year.  Back from injury.  Contract year.  Something to prove.  

Other players involved: would personally prefer to keep Delgado, but Tehran has big upside, too.  Glad we get to keep Ahmed! He could replace Uggla sooner rather than later. And I'm intrigued by this guy Johnson.  I know nothing about him, but his #s are pretty dang good.

One final thought - losing Prado means Heyward, McCann, Hudson and Uggla have got to be good leaders.  They already were, I think, but now without Prado (and Chipper!), there's more need for good leadership.

Ahmed was part of the deal.  D'backs are wanting to pair him with someone to acquire Porcello from Detroit.  Also, I think you're right about the Upton almost coming to Raleigh.  I think it was going to be B.J., but not sure.

It was Justin. He actually signed a LOI. Although it was pretty well known he was going pro.

^ Didn't one of them (or even both) play just north of Raleigh at Louisburg College? Maybe that is what you were thinking about.

Yeah, it was kind of like Josh Hamilton before him. A formal tip of the hat to State, but no real commitment.  Still, makes me like Justin even more 

ncsuwolfpack13 wrote: It was Justin. He actually signed a LOI. Although it was pretty well known he was going pro.

I agree with what PB'er said...we were not going to get Bourn back with Boras holding the keys.  So he was gone and we had to replace him, hence B.J. Upton.  Now we have to address left field and 3rd base.  I certainly was hoping to get a left fielder and have Prado move to 3rd, so I'm very disappointed we let Prado go.  Now, if it is also true that there is no way we sign Prado next year, then maybe this works.  Maybe the Uptons will be so psyched to play together they catch fire.  At least that's what I'll hope for.

Skywalker44 wrote: ^ Didn't one of them (or even both) play just north of Raleigh at Louisburg College? Maybe that is what you were thinking about.

Both kids went straight into the minors out of high school
BJ went to Greenbrier Christian Academy(some grade problems in Public school)

Justin went to Great Bridge High School


Both were Rawlings high school players of the year in their respective senior seasons.

The Bourn-Prado for Uptons swap probably is a wash next year.  It is a big win looking down the road the next few years.

FWIW, Keith Law really likes the deal for Atlanta:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb...acks-braves-mlb

Also, you have to separate what'd you like to see happen from reality. Bourn was not a realistic option. The writing was on the wall with Prado when the two sides went to arbitration over a 400k difference. I don't know how the Braves could have done better than getting the two Uptons.

With the Justin Upton trade, Accuscore calculations has Atlanta's chances of winning its division climbing from 24.2% to 37%

Sorry but anyone saying this is a terrible trade for the Braves just doesn't know much about baseball. This is a GREAT trade for the Braves.

The Yahoo article mentions that Atlanta coveted a right handed power bat and this will really balance their lineup, plus arguably gives them the best outfield in baseball.  They also mention that Justin had his worst year last year, but is a major young talent.  Also mentions that one GM called it a coup for Atlanta.

I like the trade - I think it benefits both teams in overall needs including contracts and money.

The wild card is how well Johnson performs ...... he has been on the verge of breaking thru for a couple of years. Its going to be an interesting battle for playing time at 3rd.

WolfpackJAC wrote: Sorry but anyone saying this is a terrible trade for the Braves just doesn't know much about baseball. This is a GREAT trade for the Braves.

You're probably right, but, dangit, Martin Prado played like a champ and was a pleasure to watch. I'll accept the business part of the deal (and the fact that we got MLB caliber left fielder and third baseman) after I "deal" with one of my favorites being traded.

I think, given the grief the Braves have had in the past regarding the lack of African-American ("black") players in their clubhouse, the fact that all three of their outfielders are black is a great thing.  As one of the two greatest black players in the history of the game is an icon of the franchise, it seems fitting to me

Everyone loves Prado, but not very often do you get the chance to pick up a super prospect that has already put up some big seasons and is just entering their prime.  If we can lock up Justin as long as we have BJ and Heyward, we are going to have a monster outfield, for a very, very long time.

I can't wait for baseball season!

232BectonHall wrote:

WolfpackJAC wrote: Sorry but anyone saying this is a terrible trade for the Braves just doesn't know much about baseball. This is a GREAT trade for the Braves.

You're probably right, but, dangit, Martin Prado played like a champ and was a pleasure to watch. I'll accept the business part of the deal (and the fact that we got MLB caliber left fielder and third baseman) after I "deal" with one of my favorites being traded.

It was a great trade for the braves.....you gotta give to get something of value back. I work within walking distance of the stadium and their was lot of hype this afternoon for the season. Can't wait.

Rotation: Medlin, Hudson, Minor, Maholm, Teheran.  (With Beachy back late)
Bullpen: Kimbrel, O'Flaherty,Venters, Walden, Avilan, Gearrin
Lineup: Simmons, BJ, J-Hey, JUpton, Freeman, Uggla, McCann, Johnson/Francisco
Bench: R.Johnson, Schaffer... 

Seem to have some vulnerabilities on the bench.  Bullpen is fantastic.  Rotation should be good, not too much depth though. Could potentially swap the first two in lineup.  Lots of pop; lots of K's, too.  

Can you imagine if this lineup played up to its potential? Man.

^ A lot more power, a little less speed, and the potential for an avalanche of strikeouts.

There's an article on fox sports criticizing the d backs for trading Upton. It talks about how the GM and manager (Kirk Gibson) want gritty, grinder type players like Prado. It said Upton has a swagger and is so talented his . But, says Upton has a lot of talent and played through an injury last season which affected his numbers.

Does anyone know much about the prospects the Braves gave up? They could be the difference makers in this trade. I hate to loose Prado but like that a release Wren got someone with a good amount of upside with an affordable contract.