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Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero?

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Posted: 6/2/2014 12:19 PM

Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


http://nypost.com/2014/05/31/t...last-known-pow/

- Was/Is Sgt Bergdahl a hero or a deserter?
- Did the White House make the deal so they could get the VA scandal off the top headline?
- Is Sgt Bergdahl so ill The White House could not follow the law and inform Congress 30 days prior to the release of any Gitmo detainees?

Sgt Bergdahl walked off 5 years ago.  Why now?  Why immediately? 

The world is full of hero/anti-heros Mr Snowden, Sgt Bergdahl, President Putin
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Posted: 6/2/2014 5:41 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Q1: Don't know. Need more information.
Q2: Most definitely. Heard Leon Panetta walked away from a deal better than this one. 
Q3: Doubtful, but again, I need to read more about it. This President picks and chooses the laws he wishes to follow, so it is not surprising that he would pull this to get the bad press off his back. But, I think it is going to back fire.
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Posted: 6/2/2014 7:21 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



WildcatEngineer wrote: http://nypost.com/2014/05/31/t...last-known-pow/

- Was/Is Sgt Bergdahl a hero or a deserter?
- Did the White House make the deal so they could get the VA scandal off the top headline?
- Is Sgt Bergdahl so ill The White House could not follow the law and inform Congress 30 days prior to the release of any Gitmo detainees?

Sgt Bergdahl walked off 5 years ago.  Why now?  Why immediately? 

The world is full of hero/anti-heros Mr Snowden, Sgt Bergdahl, President Putin
Maybe Bergdahl was a spy for the U.S.?  Maybe some of this stuff was just cover for him.  Maybe he is truly dissolusioned.  Can we really know if we don't have direct knowledge?
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Posted: 6/2/2014 8:00 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



Number8Son wrote:
WildcatEngineer wrote: http://nypost.com/2014/05/31/t...last-known-pow/

- Was/Is Sgt Bergdahl a hero or a deserter?
- Did the White House make the deal so they could get the VA scandal off the top headline?
- Is Sgt Bergdahl so ill The White House could not follow the law and inform Congress 30 days prior to the release of any Gitmo detainees?

Sgt Bergdahl walked off 5 years ago.  Why now?  Why immediately? 

The world is full of hero/anti-heros Mr Snowden, Sgt Bergdahl, President Putin
Maybe Bergdahl was a spy for the U.S.?  Maybe some of this stuff was just cover for him.  Maybe he is truly dissolusioned.  Can we really know if we don't have direct knowledge?
I know I don't.  I watched the Snowden interview and Mr Snowden does not come off as an intravert that lives in his parent's basement with 20 computers.

This reminds me a little of Iran Contra when both Republicans and Democrats threw Col Ollie North under the bus to cover for the President.  Then North testified in front of Congress and the whole crazy right wing loon story went poof.

I feel we can be manipulated by both sides.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 11:20 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


The only thing I can say with complete certainty is...I'm not really sure.

Cheers!
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Posted: 6/3/2014 11:50 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


All the evidence indicates Bergdahl was a deserter.  A number of soldiers were killed trying to rescue him.  (Clearly not a spy.)  Obama administration (Rice) trying to spin (lie) it otherwise is pathetic.  This administration is a true disgrace.  If Obama was anything other than the first elected minority POTUS he would be impeached.

Amazing what libs do when they get into power, among other things, negotiate with terrorists for a deserter, bus "dreamers" to Arizona, but leave an American to rot in a Mexican prison.


Last edited 6/3/2014 1:57 PM by MajorAppleCat

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Posted: 6/3/2014 12:02 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Makes perfect sense for a lib. Let the brave die in Bengazi, then trade a suspected Muslim trader for five of the worst terrorist.
A man who is older than 30, and who is not a conservative has no brain.-Winston Churchill
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Posted: 6/3/2014 12:05 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





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--- Arrestacat wrote:

Makes perfect sense for a lib. Let the brave die in Bengazi, then trade a suspected Muslim trader for five of the worst terrorist.

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They are worse than Bin Laden, KSM, Yusef, et al?

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Posted: 6/3/2014 1:19 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


popcorn.gif

                           

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Posted: 6/3/2014 4:51 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Perspective: 500 terrorists were released from Gitmo under the watch of super-patriot GWB with nothing in return.

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Posted: 6/3/2014 5:56 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Apparently, those 500 didn't measure up to these five. I also read today that they knew of Bergdhal's location for quite some time, but chose not to go get him. They decided that it wasn't worth American lives to go get one they felt had deserted.

I also read an old article that mentions Bergdhal a few years ago saying he left and was now teaching members of the taliban about ambushing techniques and how to use a cell phone as a detonator.

In another article, I read that he might be tried for treason.

So why didn't Obama know all of this before he made this deal?
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Posted: 6/3/2014 6:05 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





---------------------------------------------
--- nealyfan ---------------------------------------------
--- Arrestacat wrote:

Makes perfect sense for a lib. Let the brave die in Bengazi, then trade a suspected Muslim trader for five of the worst as Ben Laden, KSM, and Yusef. That's like asking if young gang members are as bad as the older ones.

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They are worse than Bin Laden, KSM, Yusef, et al?

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Leadership reflects attitude, so yes they are as bad
A man who is older than 30, and who is not a conservative has no brain.-Winston Churchill
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:08 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





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--- spot2180 wrote:

Apparently, those 500 didn't measure up to these five. I also read today that they knew of Bergdhal's location for quite some time, but chose not to go get him. They decided that it wasn't worth American lives to go get one they felt had deserted.

I also read an old article that mentions Bergdhal a few years ago saying he left and was now teaching members of the taliban about ambushing techniques and how to use a cell phone as a detonator.

In another article, I read that he might be tried for treason.

So why didn't Obama know all of this before he made this deal?

---------------------------------------------

If he is a traitor, he should be tried and punished in a US court. He may be a mook, but he's our mook. No man left behind means what it means. If he deserves an ass-kicking, he should get it. But it should be in America.

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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:34 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



nealyfan wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- spot2180 wrote:

Apparently, those 500 didn't measure up to these five. I also read today that they knew of Bergdhal's location for quite some time, but chose not to go get him. They decided that it wasn't worth American lives to go get one they felt had deserted.

I also read an old article that mentions Bergdhal a few years ago saying he left and was now teaching members of the taliban about ambushing techniques and how to use a cell phone as a detonator.

In another article, I read that he might be tried for treason.

So why didn't Obama know all of this before he made this deal?

---------------------------------------------

If he is a traitor, he should be tried and punished in a US court. He may be a mook, but he's our mook. No man left behind means what it means. If he deserves an ass-kicking, he should get it. But it should be in America.
You don't go trading a mook for five of the worst terrorists... I don't care how you spin it.  It ultimately puts more American lives at stake.  He deserted...


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Posted: 6/3/2014 10:31 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


They were Taliban not Al....oh never mind 


popcorn.gif

                           

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Posted: 6/4/2014 6:43 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





---------------------------------------------
--- MajorAppleCat wrote:


nealyfan wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- spot2180 wrote:

Apparently, those 500 didn't measure up to these five. I also read today that they knew of Bergdhal's location for quite some time, but chose not to go get him. They decided that it wasn't worth American lives to go get one they felt had deserted.

I also read an old article that mentions Bergdhal a few years ago saying he left and was now teaching members of the taliban about ambushing techniques and how to use a cell phone as a detonator.

In another article, I read that he might be tried for treason.

So why didn't Obama know all of this before he made this deal?

---------------------------------------------

If he is a traitor, he should be tried and punished in a US court. He may be a mook, but he's our mook. No man left behind means what it means. If he deserves an ass-kicking, he should get it. But it should be in America.
You don't go trading a mook for five of the worst terrorists... I don't care how you spin it.  It ultimately puts more American lives at stake.  He deserted...

---------------------------------------------
How do you know they were the 5 worst? If they were so bad, they would have been convicted by a tribunals.

But as usual, you miss my main point: I have no sympathy for Bergdahl. But as a country, the promise of bringing our troops home sometimes trumps being "tough on terror." Even the Israelis have done swaps were the ratios are 10-1 and 20-1. This is not unprecedented.

Btw, how do you know he deserted? Sure, Fox News and some of hs colleagues say he did, but there are other reports that he might have been kidnapped. Either way, I don't want one of our troops left to die in the field based on the say-so of Sarah Palin.

As a final thought: if he is a deserter, the UCMJ does not provide that the punishment is to leave him in the hands of the enemy. I assume that we can all agree that the UCMJ had jurisdiction in judging this soldier?

Last edited 6/4/2014 7:16 AM by nealyfan

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Posted: 6/4/2014 8:35 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


"...but there are other reports that he might have been kidnapped."


Pretty sure soldiers who are kidnapped do not leave a letter behind explaining their actions nor do they leave their weapons, night vision goggles and send their computer and personal effects home to their parents prior to the abduction.

This will blow over in a week or so just like Obamacare, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, VA scandal etal.

When an administration seemingly has one crisis upon another people lose focus and attention is diverted.

The Obama Administration is developing a perfect boiler plate for future administrations. Brilliant really.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:16 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



RichardZ wrote:
The Obama Administration is developing a perfect boiler plate for future administrations. Brilliant really.
so, if Reagan was the 'teflon' president... 

good news is that the folks who are okay with lack of accountability will continue to hold that position regardless of which party is in the big house. 

on the other hand, personally, I think we all need to figure out how to simplify this process.  Hard.  Tough.  Fair.  Cut and dried.  Helps our friends and our enemies to be able to trust us to do what we say we're going to do.

CAREFUL!     VP Biden, some DC politicians and the liberal media have determined I am a terrorist...

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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:22 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Assuming this letter - which has never been seen or properly authenticated - exists, it doesn't change the fact that he should be tried and dealt with here.

As to Obama scandals, if takes two sides. He has started his share of fires, but right-wingers do their best to fan the flames. Btw, were you in a coma during the Clinton years?

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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:42 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that he should have been brought home if possible. For full freedom or a trial for desertion. Most people don't think 5 for 1 is proper. Especially, considering the rank of the five and their cumulative bad deeds.

The letter in question, by all the reports I have seen, were by people who allegedly seen the letter which states Bergdahls disillusion of America, the Army etc. I seen at least three people on tv who said they saw the letter. The letter is not important regarding his release, but it is important as to his mind set and totally wipes away any claim he was 'kidnapped'. Frankly, I have never heard one report that there was a kidnapping. Could have missed it though.

It is pretty early to reach any conclusions in this case, but speculation is always going to happen. I happen to think, just from the few interviews I have seen by his parents,  that there is something amiss here.  Especially, the claim by his father that he forgot how to speak English during those five years. That's just ridiculous.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





---------------------------------------------
--- RichardZ wrote:

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that he should have been brought home if possible. For full freedom or a trial for desertion. Most people don't think 5 for 1 is proper. Especially, considering the rank of the five and their cumulative bad deeds.

The letter in question, by all the reports I have seen, were by people who allegedly seen the letter which states Bergdahls disillusion of America, the Army etc. I seen at least three people on tv who said they saw the letter. The letter is not important regarding his release, but it is important as to his mind set and totally wipes away any claim he was 'kidnapped'. Frankly, I have never heard one report that there was a kidnapping. Could have missed it though.

It is pretty early to reach any conclusions in this case, but speculation is always going to happen. I happen to think, just from the few interviews I have seen by his parents,  that there is something amiss here.  Especially, the claim by his father that he forgot how to speak English during those five years. That's just ridiculous.

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Look up what Isreal gave for one of their own and the deal looks like a bargain.

Second, since they were Taliban and the Taliban was in control of Afghanistan at the time of invasion, they may be properly considered prisoners of war. We are winding down the war. Exchanging prisoners is appropriate. They are not Al Qaeda and there is no evidence that they planned any attacks on the US outside of defending their country.

Third, and most redundant, I am not defending Bergdahl. If he is a traitor, he should be punished like one.

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Posted: 6/4/2014 2:45 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



nealyfan wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- RichardZ wrote:

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that he should have been brought home if possible. For full freedom or a trial for desertion. Most people don't think 5 for 1 is proper. Especially, considering the rank of the five and their cumulative bad deeds.

The letter in question, by all the reports I have seen, were by people who allegedly seen the letter which states Bergdahls disillusion of America, the Army etc. I seen at least three people on tv who said they saw the letter. The letter is not important regarding his release, but it is important as to his mind set and totally wipes away any claim he was 'kidnapped'. Frankly, I have never heard one report that there was a kidnapping. Could have missed it though.

It is pretty early to reach any conclusions in this case, but speculation is always going to happen. I happen to think, just from the few interviews I have seen by his parents,  that there is something amiss here.  Especially, the claim by his father that he forgot how to speak English during those five years. That's just ridiculous.

---------------------------------------------

Look up what Isreal gave for one of their own and the deal looks like a bargain.

Second, since they were Taliban and the Taliban was in control of Afghanistan at the time of invasion, they may be properly considered prisoners of war. We are winding down the war. Exchanging prisoners is appropriate. They are not Al Qaeda and there is no evidence that they planned any attacks on the US outside of defending their country.

Third, and most redundant, I am not defending Bergdahl. If he is a traitor, he should be punished like one.
You are naive.

Bergdahl wasn't being held by the Taliban.  He was being held by a de facto criminal organization, the Haqqanis, who typically align themselves to any power that promotes their independence.  Usually, all the Haqqanis want is money (to finance their own militias), which we haven't heard about yet.  

Typical of Obama, he used the ruse of Bergdahl's being held captive as a means of negotiating an "exchange" with the Haqqanis to get rid of the worst al Qaeda terrorists in Guantanamo order to shut it down.  (see Harry Reid's comments yesterday.)  Now that the "worst" prisoners in Guantanamo have been "let go," Obama and his ilk will let the remainder go under the argument that they are not "terrorists" but simply prisoners of a war that has ended.

The military has known of Bergdahl's location for months.

Congress rejected the same offer several years ago.  What has changed?  Only Obama's ruse to exchange the worst terrorists in Guantanamo in order to shut it down.

The war in Afghanistan hasn't ended.  The same threat that existed before Obama was elected, is the same threat that exists today.  Thus, when Obama campaigned on the idea that Afghanistan is where the United States should be... no Iraq... since that is where al Qaeda resides, hasn't changed anything.  The only only thing that has changed is that Obama has been proven a fool for wanting to go Afghanistan in the first place.

As I stated before Obama was elected, it is well known that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up what remains

Jest roll to your rifle an' blow out your brains

An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."  
Rudyard Kipling



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Posted: 6/4/2014 4:57 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



RichardZ wrote: "...but there are other reports that he might have been kidnapped."


Pretty sure soldiers who are kidnapped do not leave a letter behind explaining their actions nor do they leave their weapons, night vision goggles and send their computer and personal effects home to their parents prior to the abduction.

This will blow over in a week or so just like Obamacare, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, VA scandal etal.

When an administration seemingly has one crisis upon another people lose focus and attention is diverted.

The Obama Administration is developing a perfect boiler plate for future administrations. Brilliant really.
You think Bush, Clinton, or anybody else didn't practice administration politics?
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Posted: 6/4/2014 5:39 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


banghead
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:05 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



RichardZ wrote: banghead

Hang In There, George Will is joining you by recognizing President Obama knows he can't get anything HE WANTS through Congress, so he is pulling a Palin, and "Going Rogue".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5d9e_print.html
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:34 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 



WildcatEngineer wrote:
RichardZ wrote: banghead

Hang In There, George Will is joining you by recognizing President Obama knows he can't get anything HE WANTS through Congress, so he is pulling a Palin, and "Going Rogue".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5d9e_print.html
With executive orders and regulations implemented by decree, presidents seem to becoming more and more like dictators.  Alas, I will go to work, put in extra time and reap the rewards of employment.  I will let politicians leave their  "legacy" as well as their "altruistic" supporters.  Rather pathetic really.

Last edited 6/4/2014 9:35 PM by Number8Son

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Posted: 6/4/2014 10:11 PM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 





---------------------------------------------
--- WildcatEngineer wrote:


RichardZ wrote: banghead

Hang In There, George Will is joining you by recognizing President Obama knows he can't get anything HE WANTS through Congress, so he is pulling a Palin, and "Going Rogue".

www.washingtonpost.com/...5d9e_print.html

---------------------------------------------

Did you know that John Yoo wrote an opinion as legal counsel for the Bush Administration and from that opinion America sanctioned torture?

Barry O is playing the part of president just like his predecessors did.
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Posted: 6/5/2014 6:38 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Jon's segment on The Daily Show about Ollie North critiquing "negotiating with terrorists" was pretty damn funny.

In all seriousness, this is a 'tough one' for me.  I'm with nealy, wanting this guy back regardless(maybe especially) if he was a deserter.  I also want to see the whole Gitmo thing shut down - that thing was a mistake of COLOSSAL proportions.  Even with those two things added together, I'm still not real happy about how this all went down noidea

                           

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Posted: 6/5/2014 7:48 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Google is a wonderful tool. Enter Obama, Bergdahl, hypocrisy, or something similar. As late as a few months ago, right-wingers were crying that Obama hates our troops because he wasn't launching missions to rescue the same guy that the lunatic fringe loathes.

As far as negotiating with terrorists, St. Ronnie closed the book on that canard. Can you imagine if our commander-in-chief supplied radical Islamists with rocket launchers? Oh wait ...

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Posted: 6/5/2014 9:45 AM

Re: Are We Being Manipulated By A ?Hero? 


Some of you guys remind me of my kids. When they were nabbed for wrong doing the cry was the usual..."Well, Johnny did it too!" Bad behavior or bad decisions are not lessened because someone else did something similar or worse.

Try to stick to the topic at hand. I know it's hard, but try.

Willie said it best so far, when he said he is not happy with the way it went down. Same feeling I get.  At this point in time that is about all we have concerning this situation. Until the administration gives us anything of substance other than Susan Rice's continued La la Land talking points all we can do is speculate.

Right now, more info is coming out from the Taliban than our own government.

Still think it will just fade away like most things in Washington. Kew up the next 'crisis' in 5...4...3...2...1
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