Posted: 2/18/2013 7:11 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 7:40 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 8:23 AM
ksustephens wrote: Just some ramblings this morning for conversation. Why do people focus so much on "well can he recruit?". I say what exactly is expected? I looked at his current class and it looks pretty similar to Franks last two classes. And Bruce is doing better with those players. So if he continues the type of success he had with similar players is that not good enough? Everyone points to Bill Self as such a great recruiter. Bill Self would not be getting those types of four and five star players at KState either. Kansas is a big draw in itself because of their dominance and tradition. What exactly is expected from Weber recruiting realistically?
Posted: 2/18/2013 8:32 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 8:52 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 8:53 AM
ninglu86 wrote: Thank you for your very informative post IstillLikeHarv
CAREFUL! VP Biden, some DC politicians and the liberal media have determined I am a terrorist...
Posted: 2/18/2013 9:48 AM
EMAW1 wrote: ninglu86 wrote: Thank you for your very informative post IstillLikeHarvsame here. wondering out loud if Bruce might have had a 'Snyder moment' and recognized that he can do better with a 'certain type' of player as opposed to chasing 'the highest prep rankings'...a team never turns down a Michael Beasley...but it's the other kids on the floor that'll determine how far in the season/post-season a team goes.
Posted: 2/18/2013 10:00 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 10:07 AM
IstillLikeHarv wrote: ksustephens wrote: Just some ramblings this morning for conversation. Why do people focus so much on "well can he recruit?". I say what exactly is expected? I looked at his current class and it looks pretty similar to Franks last two classes. And Bruce is doing better with those players. So if he continues the type of success he had with similar players is that not good enough? Everyone points to Bill Self as such a great recruiter. Bill Self would not be getting those types of four and five star players at KState either. Kansas is a big draw in itself because of their dominance and tradition. What exactly is expected from Weber recruiting realistically?Only time will tell, but the "Weber can't recruit" thing is a myth according to the rankings. It is easier to recruit at UI than at KSU, but Weber had top 20 classes in 2009, 2010, and 2011, which were his last three at UI. Even with Meyers Leonard turning pro as a soph, Coach Groce inherited 6 consensus (RSCI) top 100 recruits from Weber at UI. Even the 2007 class including McCamey, Tisdale, and Davis had some players who did well although only McCamey was a consensus four-star.The fair question is what went wrong at UI, and there are lots of opinions on that. If you go by the facts, we know that Weber can win with the right players. Some only apply that to the 2005 team of Self recruits, but Weber made the Sweet Sixteen at SIU with his own recruits (he had to rebuild that program, btw), and Lowery made another Sweet Sixteen at SIU with some Weber players as well. Weber placed second in the Big Ten to MSU in 2009, but Chet Frazier broke his hand and could not play in the BTT or NCAAs, and he was the MVP on a team that lived off its defense. In 2011 Weber's UI team made the NCAA Round of 32 by beating Lon Kruger's UNLV squad convincingly before losing to Bill Self's KU one-seed team (with five-star Jereme Richmond benched for conduct issues). The point is that it's not like 2004 through 2007 when he won 80% of his games were the only good years Weber has had in his 14 plus year career. He has a decent chance of getting to 340 career wins in his 15th season (I think he needs seven more wins), and you don't do that if you can't coach or recruit.The tough question is why a guy who obviously can coach on the court and who was getting pretty good recruits had a run from 2008 through 2012 where he had two bad seasons and the others decent but not great seasons. My personal opinion is that it wasn't the quality of the players he recruited, but the mix of players he recruited that caused the problem. Specifically, I think he got too concerned with getting four-star and five-star players (of which he got a bunch in 2009-2011) instead of getting the right players for his system. He is better off with multiple guys with good point guard skills to have a lot of success with his system, and we had virtually no depth at the point after 2009.If you look at Weber's recruits right now playing for Groce, they have wins over Butler, Gonzaga, Ohio State, Indiana, and Minnesota among others. UI will likely make the NCAA tourney at this point, so Weber left some talent at UI in spite of the collapse at the end of 2012. I watched a fair amount of your game against Baylor, and it was classic Weber with the right players for his system. It wasn't under the best of circumstances at either school, but my guess is that both KSU and UI will be happy with their new coaching staffs over the coming years.Good luck against WVU. I don't mean to put the whammy on you, but this could easily be a trap game since you guys beat them at their place already. It's hard to convince 18-22 year-olds that this is a whole new game, and the last game doesn't mean squat.Stay in first place!
Posted: 2/18/2013 10:11 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 10:13 AM
Last edited 2/18/2013 10:16 AM by FeartheIllini
Posted: 2/18/2013 10:25 AM
"I showed I could sling it a little bit." Daniel Sams
Posted: 2/18/2013 11:05 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 11:18 AM
Posted: 2/18/2013 11:25 AM
EMAW1 wrote: Ill Todd: it remains to be seen how much the Illinois experience will shape Bruce at KState and moving forward. the nature of many fans is to be optimistic.'other Ill' posters on here clearly have it 'bad' for Bruce...I don't dismiss their 'experience' but to suggest that he can't/won't have learned from any job he's ever had and can't/won't grow or change seems to paint a picture of someone interested only in complaining.See it here all the time.
Posted: 2/18/2013 11:43 AM
What do all K-State fans and most KU fans have in common...........They didn't graduate from KU.
Posted: 2/18/2013 12:10 PM
Posted: 2/18/2013 12:11 PM
FeartheIllini wrote: Jeez, Todd has me laughing hard. weber had 9 years of recruiting. He couldn't win with lower stars, he couldn't win with higher stars. He wouldn't--not couldn't--recruit PGs. He didn't even recruit Pullen--who as you know can't stand weber because of it. We are seeing a massively different DJ and Tyler Griffey this year under Groce, because he has forced them to expand their games. DJ was know as a slasher coming into our program. weber turned him into a one-dimensional jumpshooter. He's now showing his complete game, after 3 years of one-dimensionality under weber.Throw him a bone? Omg. Our AD kept extending and giving him raises in the face of not just mediocrity, but among the worst 5 year rolling periods in our history. 118 periods, and weber comes in bottom 10%. Some of you guys may want someone to blow sunshine up your butts about weber. Some of you may want to be forewarned.
Posted: 2/18/2013 12:14 PM
FeartheIllini wrote: Oh yeah, that should make you feel better. You've got a coach who can't even tell what players are good for his system, according to Harv.Personally, I think weber is purely a systems coach with very poor actual Xs and Os ability. Terrible at in-game adjustments--as evidenced by 9 years of second half versus 1st half performances, and completely unable to coach 'em up. And to top it all off, he's a coach who has trouble relating to certain players and getting them to play for him (again according to Harv). Like all coaches, good and bad, he will have the occasional right mix, but left to his own devices, he'll have much more of the latter.You guys are underselling Martin. He went out an constructed a roster that has a good PG, and can bang or finesse. Weber will construct one-dimensional rosters, as he always did at Illinois. That's a certainty.
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