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What Am I Missing?

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Posted: 8/21/2014 9:34 PM

What Am I Missing? 


CTC has addressed our glaring weakness from last season. We not only signed one of, if not the best shooting guard in the country, in JBJ. He still has to bring his shot to the college game, but if the Canada trip was a preview, he will be one of the top scorers in the BIG this season. RJ brings a lot of the same, plus he displayed a good handle as well as the ability to defend his position. Plug Yogi and Stan into the backcourt, and you have depth to go along with great skillsets. The one area of improvement that remains to be seen is ball security. If we can maintain a 2.5 to 1 assist to t/o ratio we will be fine. Easier said than done.

Our next lottery pick will start as one of our wings. Is there any doubt that Troy has made the big jump over the summer? We have bodies to fill the other wing positions, but NZ will earn 15-20 minutes a game. This kid can flat out shoot the long Baal. He had the best asst/ to ratio in Canada. He makes good decisions with the ball, and has D1 experience.

Our biggest concern is the paint, HP should show improvement, but it appears DD is ready to be that rebound machine, another player that really worked on his body and game this summer. Feelings are mixed, but I think CTC found a player in Emmitt Holt that is going to be a real player. His stats were consistent at every level. Coaches and team mates rave about him.

Back to the thread title. What am I missing? Probably the melted ice in my glass of Kool Aid. If I was gulping instead of sipping I wouldn't have that problem.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:12 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


The thing (offensively) we'll have to wait and see about is whether or not we can score in the half court.   Same problem we've had since Crean got here.    I have no doubt this team will be able to score effectively in transition.  They'll get and make lots of shots in primary and secondary break...no question.  But in the half court?   A team which plays a decent zone will simply take away the perimeter and force Indiana to score in the paint.     Indiana has been pretty good about this (taking away the 3), and it can be done pretty effectively.   Iowa, Ohio State, Northwestern, and Nebraska were all in the top 40 last season, and Wisconsin wasn't bad.    We've been able to run consistently with Michigan and Michigan State...and had lots of success or close games with both. 

Defensively it boils down to "can we rebound and eliminate 2nd shots," and "can we guard the paint?"

I don't think you're missing anything, but I don't think it's as simple as saying "we just need shooters!"  Losing Vonleh, Sheehey, Gordon, etc means we lost 38 points and 22 rebounds a game.  We're awfully young and awfully inexperienced.  That matters in the Big Ten.
"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."  -  Homer J. Simpson

Last edited 8/21/2014 10:13 PM by gocolts88

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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:31 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 




I think we can make up the 38 points, but the 22 rebounds is a lot . Teams extending their zones to take away our outside shooting should allow our guards to dribble drive and create problems for their bigs. Last season, they sagged and dared us to shoot. Troy,Yogi, and Stan should benefit.
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--- gocolts88 wrote:

The thing (offensively) we'll have to wait and see about is whether or not we can score in the half court.   Same problem we've had since Crean got here.    I have no doubt this team will be able to score effectively in transition.  They'll get and make lots of shots in primary and secondary break...no question.  But in the half court?   A team which plays a decent zone will simply take away the perimeter and force Indiana to score in the paint.     Indiana has been pretty good about this (taking away the 3), and it can be done pretty effectively.   Iowa, Ohio State, Northwestern, and Nebraska were all in the top 40 last season, and Wisconsin wasn't bad.    We've been able to run consistently with Michigan and Michigan State...and had lots of success or close games with both. 

Defensively it boils down to "can we rebound and eliminate 2nd shots," and "can we guard the paint?"

I don't think you're missing anything, but I don't think it's as simple as saying "we just need shooters!"  Losing Vonleh, Sheehey, Gordon, etc means we lost 38 points and 22 rebounds a game.  We're awfully young and awfully inexperienced.  That matters in the Big Ten.

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Posted: 8/22/2014 1:13 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


I would agree with Colts, the problem is, and always will be, do we have a functioning half court offense that can score.  I have not seen one.  Since he's been here. 

So.....how to win a game when the opponent knows, like every  coach that we will play knows now, that we break down in the half court.  The players have to figure it out.  That's not ideally what you'd want, but, that's what we've got.  Not entirely unheard of.  Thinking of old Dale Brown LSU teams, they kind of won in spite of the coach not knowing how, well, ok, maybe defensively, the freak defense.  Yogi must figure out how to get shooters open, ie VJ at the end of the UK game, when Crean told him to go make a senior play during the time out.  He did.  Well, we've got to do that mucho more.  I'm thinking specifically, Yogi.  He's got major, major responsibility.  In the half court.  He had last year to learn from.   So...

Maybe a good start can help.  I mean, I was at the LIU Brooklyn game last November something, and we all knew in our aisle it was the same old thing.  We've got some IQ on the floor, and at guard, in particular.  Would have been great to have Buckner in Yogi's ear this summer.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 7:09 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


Another advanatge IU has is a favorable conference slate.  Except for Wisconsin, our tougher single game opponents (Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan) are at home.  Several winnable road games in a down year for the conference.  I will be disappointed if we don't easily finish above .500 in conference.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 10:49 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


I think the two areas of concern you nailed.  

Unfortunately they are two of the most critical areas.  

If we cut the number turnovers by 40% I think we are in good shape.  

The lack of an inside presence bothers me greatly.  Especially during the conference season.   


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Posted: 8/22/2014 12:18 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 



CTC wants to play fast. Increase possessions, and bring fatigue to the opponent. With that style, we will have above average turnovers. Add to that the fact we are young, we will be toward the top in to's in BIG play. I guess the % of turnovers per possession is the number we need to improve on. I'm with you on the lack of inside players. The two big unknowns are HP and a Freshman that hasn't even moved on campus yet.

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--- jmsgws wrote:

I think the two areas of concern you nailed.  

Unfortunately they are two of the most critical areas.  

If we cut the number turnovers by 40% I think we are in good shape.  

The lack of an inside presence bothers me greatly.  Especially during the conference season.   



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Posted: 8/22/2014 4:03 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


Disagree.   Bob Knight's teams led the Big Ten in scoring almost every year and played at a quick pace most of the time offensively (the "slow down" narrative about his offense is a myth).   His teams didn't turn the ball over, and many teams who play quickly don't turn it over excessively.  I think excusing turnovers is dangerous business...especially for a coach.
Dyedinthewool wrote:
CTC wants to play fast. Increase possessions, and bring fatigue to the opponent. With that style, we will have above average turnovers. Add to that the fact we are young, we will be toward the top in to's in BIG play. I guess the % of turnovers per possession is the number we need to improve on. I'm with you on the lack of inside players. The two big unknowns are HP and a Freshman that hasn't even moved on campus yet.

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--- jmsgws wrote:

I think the two areas of concern you nailed.  

Unfortunately they are two of the most critical areas.  

If we cut the number turnovers by 40% I think we are in good shape.  

The lack of an inside presence bothers me greatly.  Especially during the conference season.   



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"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."  -  Homer J. Simpson
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Posted: 8/22/2014 4:53 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


There is above average  and then there is ABOVE AVERAGE.  

Last year we were ranked 329 out of 345.   That is ABOVE AVERAGE.  

The low was around 8 per game.  we were slightly over 15.  

Average is somewhere around 11.  I wouldn't complain as much about that number.


Last edited 8/22/2014 4:54 PM by jmsgws

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Posted: 8/22/2014 7:18 PM

Re: What Am I Missing? 



jmsgws wrote:

There is above average  and then there is ABOVE AVERAGE.  

Last year we were ranked 329 out of 345.   That is ABOVE AVERAGE.  

The low was around 8 per game.  we were slightly over 15.  

Average is somewhere around 11.  I wouldn't complain as much about that number.

Wow, if that's not an indictment, hard to figure out what one is.  Amazing stat there.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 8:41 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


I don't see how the same posters that complain about turnovers can also criticize the Zeisloft signing.  That's one of the main reasons he was brought in.

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Posted: 8/23/2014 9:56 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


GC one of the huge differences between the two coaches, is how they deal with careless turnovers. CTC let's them play through turnovers. Hence, we have players making the same mistakes over and over. One that drives me crazy, is leaving your feet with nowhere to go. RMK had a special place for careless ball handling . A reserved seat on the bench. Continued sloppy play would sometimes land players in the doghouse. The mental to's we're not tolerated in practice, or games.

How many travel calls do we have off the first dribble? Sorry, but that is a fundamental miscue. Perhaps with a 3 guard lineup we won't have as many empty possessions this year.


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--- gocolts88 wrote:

Disagree.   Bob Knight's teams led the Big Ten in scoring almost every year and played at a quick pace most of the time offensively (the "slow down" narrative about his offense is a myth).   His teams didn't turn the ball over, and many teams who play quickly don't turn it over excessively.  I think excusing turnovers is dangerous business...especially for a coach.
Dyedinthewool wrote:
CTC wants to play fast. Increase possessions, and bring fatigue to the opponent. With that style, we will have above average turnovers. Add to that the fact we are young, we will be toward the top in to's in BIG play. I guess the % of turnovers per possession is the number we need to improve on. I'm with you on the lack of inside players. The two big unknowns are HP and a Freshman that hasn't even moved on campus yet.

---------------------------------------------
--- jmsgws wrote:

I think the two areas of concern you nailed.  

Unfortunately they are two of the most critical areas.  

If we cut the number turnovers by 40% I think we are in good shape.  

The lack of an inside presence bothers me greatly.  Especially during the conference season.   



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Look, I gotta go, my Avatar is calling.

Last edited 8/23/2014 3:20 PM by Dyedinthewool

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Posted: 8/23/2014 10:58 AM

Re: What Am I Missing? 


I completely agree with that, and turnovers are not okay.   A few will happen throughout the course of a game...I get that.   But Knight used to talk about errors of omission vs. errors of commission.   Errors of commission happen..physical mistakes.     Errors of omission (leaving your feet with no place to go.  Setting a "Pritchard" - that's a moving screen 40 feet from the rim.  Stuff like that which has plagued every Crean team..   Makes me crazy.   Pace of play has nothing to do with those things.   It's simple "details."  Nothing more or less, and I don't think Crean's very good at coaching those.
Dyedinthewool wrote: GC one of the huge differences between the two coaches, is how they delay with careless turnovers. CTC let's them play through turnovers. Hence, we have players making the same mistakes over and over. One that drives me crazy, is leaving your feet with nowhere to go. RMK had a special place for careless ball handling . A reserved seat on the bench. Continued sloppy play would sometimes land players in the doghouse. The mental to's we're not tolerated in practice, or games.

How many travel calls do we have off the first dribble? Sorry, but that is a fundamental miscue. Perhaps with a 3 guard lineup we won't have as many empty possessions this year.


---------------------------------------------
--- gocolts88 wrote:

Disagree.   Bob Knight's teams led the Big Ten in scoring almost every year and played at a quick pace most of the time offensively (the "slow down" narrative about his offense is a myth).   His teams didn't turn the ball over, and many teams who play quickly don't turn it over excessively.  I think excusing turnovers is dangerous business...especially for a coach.
Dyedinthewool wrote:
CTC wants to play fast. Increase possessions, and bring fatigue to the opponent. With that style, we will have above average turnovers. Add to that the fact we are young, we will be toward the top in to's in BIG play. I guess the % of turnovers per possession is the number we need to improve on. I'm with you on the lack of inside players. The two big unknowns are HP and a Freshman that hasn't even moved on campus yet.

---------------------------------------------
--- jmsgws wrote:

I think the two areas of concern you nailed.  

Unfortunately they are two of the most critical areas.  

If we cut the number turnovers by 40% I think we are in good shape.  

The lack of an inside presence bothers me greatly.  Especially during the conference season.   



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"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."  -  Homer J. Simpson
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