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Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits

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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:38 PM

Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)


If you are skeptical about the flow of money to recruits, the article below might be interesting.  While many had long ago accepted that some top recruits get paid, I had been skeptical.  Then my increasing suspicions got a giant boost when Pitino very suddenly dropped Deuce Bello and Quincy Miller after their visit - an event which simultaneously left me feeling more confident that UofL is running much cleaner ship.  Any lingering doubt was removed when I noticed the repeated, sudden, late-in-the-process jumps of top recruits to schools such as UK, Baylor, Kansas, UNLV, SMU, and [add your own favorite here.]  

Since then, I've read some convincing comments from writers such as Dana O'Niel who live in that world and occasionally write in-depth articles.  Below is a link to one such article.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08...ggins.html?_r=2

You may not wish to read the entire article - it does mention UofL prospect Tyus Battle - but here is the smoking gun comment:

. . . some generally acknowledge that at the highest level of college basketball, some players have been known to be illegally compensated beyond room, board and tuition. . .

. . . For those who do wish to be paid, the money could be significant. The largest figure I heard being offered in exchange for one top prospect spending a year in college was $125,000, paid by a combination of an athletic department’s boosters and a sneaker-company sponsor. The money is nearly impossible to trace: A recruit’s mother might receive a box in the mail filled with $250 American Express debit cards; a father accompanying his son to a Las Vegas tournament might find a stack of chips on his bed.
"I ignore the jealous . . . malicious . . . ignorant . . . paranoid."  - Rick Pitino, 10/6/2011

Last edited 7/31/2014 4:42 PM by NVcard

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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:46 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


There is zero doubt sneaker companies and runners are paying people and keeping it away from the college coaches.   To many smoking guns for this not to be happening.  Even with coach COW and his NBA track record with recruits.   I guess their motto is if you aint cheatin you aint tryin!!!!

Glad we have CRP!!!!
NVcard wrote: If you are skeptical about the flow of money to recruits, the article below might be interesting.  While many had long ago accepted that some top recruits get paid, I had been skeptical.  Then my increasing suspicions got a giant boost when Pitino very suddenly dropped Deuce Bello and Quincy Miller after their visit - an event which simultaneously left me feeling more confident that UofL is running much cleaner ship.  Any lingering doubt was removed when I noticed the repeated, sudden, late-in-the-process jumps of top recruits to schools such as UK, Baylor, Kansas, UNLV, SMU, and [add your own favorite here.]  

Since then, I've read some convincing comments from writers such as Dana O'Niel who live in that world and occasionally write in-depth articles.  Below is a link to one such article.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08...ggins.html?_r=2

You may not wish to read the entire article - it does mention UofL prospect Tyus Battle - but here is the smoking gun comment:

. . . some generally acknowledge that at the highest level of college basketball, some players have been known to be illegally compensated beyond room, board and tuition. . .

. . . For those who do wish to be paid, the money could be significant. The largest figure I heard being offered in exchange for one top prospect spending a year in college was $125,000, paid by a combination of an athletic department’s boosters and a sneaker-company sponsor. The money is nearly impossible to trace: A recruit’s mother might receive a box in the mail filled with $250 American Express debit cards; a father accompanying his son to a Las Vegas tournament might find a stack of chips on his bed.

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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:00 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


You know its funny re-visiting this. Bello and Miller were going to commit to us that day, of course we know they didnt. Well, Im not insider nor have I ever claimed to have been. BUT.....BUT - there were big time rumbling those kids were looking for a hand out. And its no wonder we dropped them right after the visit.

All-in-all. Thats really depressing but not surprising. The "Glory Days" of college sports....are far past.

KCCO!!
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  • Purvis
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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:03 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
I have had the name PURVIS for 25 years longer than a certain person in North Carolina!
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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:14 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 



Purvis wrote: What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
Snitching won't do anything but ruin relationships that may hurt your recruiting efforts down the road. There will always be schools/boosters willing to pay recruits and there will always be recruits looking to get something on top of what is "legal" by NCAA.  Luckily, on the other hand, there will also always be good recruits that aren't looking for that hand out and Pitino is proving to be one of the best at finding the best of those types of recruits. 

This type of thing really doesn't even bother me anymore and just a nature of the game that cannot and will not be fixed. 

This article sheds a lot of light on the mindset of the people willing to fork over the cash to illegally pay recruits: 

MEET THE BAG MAN: HOW TO BUY COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS, IN THE WORDS OF A MAN WHO DELIVERS THE MONEY
http://www.sbnation.com/colleg...g-man-interview

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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:18 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


No way, no how. It's really remarkable.

Purvis wrote: What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
Let the stud feeding begin.
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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:19 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


With all the ridiculous NCAA rules how can you expect a coach to speak up without causing trouble to his own program? While I have zero doubt Pitino does not do what a Cal, or Drew does I am sure at times he needs to work in the grey area cause that is just how the game is played now and the rules.that the NCAA made in the 40's are just plain idiotic. If any coach calls out another coach you can bet they'll find something on you and hell it might just put your program on probation.
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Posted: 7/31/2014 5:25 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


That code of silence really is bizarre.  In fact, that's why I was always skeptical - "if this were really happening, wouldn't someone report it?"  But it must be a real phenomenon.  Here's part of an old article about our buddy Bruce Pearl that mentions this:


When Bo Ryan left UW-Milwaukee for Wisconsin in 2001, UWM was the only Division I school in the country willing to take a risk on Bruce Pearl.


Pearl had been blackballed by big-time college basketball because of an incident that had his career track seemingly stuck forever at D-II Southern Indiana. Even UWM seemed like a remote dream at the time for a guy like Pearl.

Pretty much everyone knows the story. For those who don't, Pearl was an Iowa assistant in the late-'80s. The Hawkeyes and the University of Illinois were fighting over the same Chicago recruit, Deon Thomas. After Thomas chose the Illini, Pearl turned over to the NCAA a tape he had secretly recorded between Thomas and Illinois assistant Jimmy Collins. Pearl claimed Illinois offered Thomas a car and cash. The NCAA didn't bust Illinois over Thomas, but it later came down on the Illini for other things. Thomas publicly called Pearl "a snake." Collins would not shake Pearl's hand when Collins coached Illinois-Chicago.

Somewhere today, Collins is probably laughing.


It was sort of like Pearl had violated some sort of  honor-among-thieves code. **** Vitale called Pearl's move "career suicide," and for a long time it looked like Dickie V. was right . . . at least until the Panthers came calling with a job offer.



Purvis wrote: What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
"I ignore the jealous . . . malicious . . . ignorant . . . paranoid."  - Rick Pitino, 10/6/2011
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Posted: 7/31/2014 7:07 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


Wow, great article, but not that surprising to serious fans. Thanks for posting.

At the top, the EYBL (and probably the other AAU style leagues) is nothing but a cesspool of crooked coaches, shady handlers, greedy parents and gullible players. I realize there are clearly exceptions, but still, what a mess. I'd probably be embarrassed to be involved in that as an adult in any capacity - AAU coach, recruiting analyst, etc. Ugh.

On another note, I'm glad we have a coaching staff and program (unlike certain others) that remain ethical and refuse to put up with any of the nonsense. Proud of the types of recruits we get (Adel and Spalding for example) and proud to be a UofL fan!

Last edited 7/31/2014 7:09 PM by wbb240gocards

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Posted: 7/31/2014 7:33 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


The code of silence goes far beyond the coaches.  Literally everybody involved in the game knows the slime that permeates its walls, but nobody will speak up.  The whole country knows shoe companies pay handles.  The whole country knows boosters are paying families.  The whole country knows college basketball is entirely controlled by shoe companies getting behind various AAU programs, which dictate places a kid can and cannot play if they want a future.  It's a complete farce, and even further indication of how the system is corrupted from the top down.  The worst part is a lot of the basketball being played isn't even quality ball.  There are some great players, but overall, it's not a high end product.  The system would be better to identify the top 100 players, allow them to participate in 2 months camp settings, filled with qualified instructors, organized games, and educational and life coaching sessions throughout.  This is how kids who are going to earn money playing the game should spend their summers.  It certainly shouldn't be traveling around playing for some low rank coach who only cares about how he can get paid from pushing a kid this way or that.
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:22 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)



Purvis wrote: What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
I'd say the reason for this is that that probably 90% of head coaches have skeletons in their closets. Some much worse than others, but I'm assuming that most have something to hide.
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:50 PM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


Even if a coach knows he hasn't done anything wrong, how can he be sure no one else has?  That new assistant you just picked up from IU?  Maybe he's using something besides his charm to connect with all these 5* players.  And what about all those rabid fans?  How can I be sure 4evercard or Senore aren't slipping C-notes to some kid?

BakedCracker wrote:
Purvis wrote: What gets me there is a "Mafia style" code of silence in the coach community.  They will NOT snitch on another coach no matter how often they are screwed. How can things change if they don't speak up.noidea
I'd say the reason for this is that that probably 90% of head coaches have skeletons in their closets. Some much worse than others, but I'm assuming that most have something to hide.
"I ignore the jealous . . . malicious . . . ignorant . . . paranoid."  - Rick Pitino, 10/6/2011
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  • nawals13
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Posted: 8/1/2014 6:03 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)


If a school can filter cash to a recruit and their family undetected through third parties, then surely a coach could manage to filter information through to media, etc without having themselves indicted or investigated.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 7:07 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


Since everyone from sneaker companies to the NCAA to the media are making their living of the product, nobody wants to be the spoiler who kills the goose laying the golden eggs. This stuff will get worse before it gets better. Should the cheating come to light, I expect very minimal action to be taken by the NCAA.
ACC, ready or not, here we come! Old 41-9 is back! Rick Pitino Hall of Fame. What a great time to be a Louisville Cardinal fan!  Go Cards!
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Posted: 8/1/2014 8:36 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits 


It will get worse unless somebody from the media has the balls to actually produce an investigative piece to expose the corruption.  It used to be what defined a journalist's worth.  Now, they are all scared that they would be out of a job.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:13 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)



scoutguru wrote: It will get worse unless somebody from the media has the balls to actually produce an investigative piece to expose the corruption.  It used to be what defined a journalist's worth.  Now, they are all scared that they would be out of a job.
Do you think the 'journalists' are not also receiving a slice of that pie? It would be easier to duplicate Woodward and Bernstein than go into some SEC school hotbed and write articles exposing the local team.

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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:22 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)


So you are saying guys like Jody are on the payrolls of shoe companies, agents/runners, and slimey AAU programs?  Never thought of it that way.  I don't think that's true, but I think it's going to take a moral and ethical person, who has the fortitude to actually do their job, regardless of backlash, to expose the industry for what it has become.  All the rules and regulations simply cannot stop the corruptions that has magnified over the last decade or so.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:30 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)



scoutguru wrote: So you are saying guys like Jody are on the payrolls of shoe companies, agents/runners, and slimey AAU programs?  Never thought of it that way.  I don't think that's true, but I think it's going to take a moral and ethical person, who has the fortitude to actually do their job, regardless of backlash, to expose the industry for what it has become.  All the rules and regulations simply cannot stop the corruptions that has magnified over the last decade or so.
What would be the point of actually suckering people to subscribe to fan websites in the first place when any of the info, 'insider' or not is available anytime with a bit of digging. Information, and the directed dissemination of said information is just as valuable as the cash to a program, especially collegiate and lower where the pay has to be hidden to some extent from the useless NCAA. The whole thing is rotten, it will collapse under its own weight at some point.

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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:40 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)


I think fan sites, and their paid subscribers, exist for fan community just as much as so called "inside information".  I think we all pay for it if we feel like it's worth it.  That being said, who's job is it to actually be a real journalist and dig for not just the rose colored glasses stories?  That's my point.  Everybody wants to talk about that it's not their job...this site covers recruiting, but is corruption of the recruiting industry totally off limits?  It's like telling a political reporter to cover a campaign, but never to expose any of the inconsistencies or violations that take place during said campaign.  A journalist's job to report about the subject at hand.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:46 AM

Re: Another piece of evidence on $ and recruits Post Rating (1 vote)



The problem with that, though, we have seen dozens of times before. Allegations from unnamed sources are more than likely not going to get the NCAA involved; they'll be treated as rumor and hearsay, and the NCAA will repeat the company line of "We cannot investigate every single rumor" to cover their butt.

If a coach truly has damning info on another coach/school, and he's serious about wanting them penalized, then the only way to make sure it at least gets looked into, is to put his name behind the allegations.
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--- nawals13 wrote:

If a school can filter cash to a recruit and their family undetected through third parties, then surely a coach could manage to filter information through to media, etc without having themselves indicted or investigated.

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