UIEightyThree wrote: its certainly a tad troublesome at this point. We dont know whether some of these were asked to leave or did so on theri own. The replacement coach will tell us alot about this.

Do we have a new D/C?

It is troubling to say the least that there is so much turnover on the staff regardless of the reasons.  As for MT, unless you're close to him and know this for sure, I wouldn't guarantee he's in denial.  Last year there was a lot of speculation that MT would fire Beckman if he had a strong replacement ready to go.  If this were true, we can only surmise he didn't have a home run replacement so it didn't make sense to fire Beckman.  MT may be ready to fire Beckman this year if things aren't going well (on the field and in recruiting).  Assistant coaches may have gotten wind of this and figured they'd take a stable job elsewhere rather then be out in the marketplace this fall.  We also surmised that with a sword hanging over his head, TB would have trouble finding strong assistants.  Is this what we're seeing?

If he thought that it would lead to him scrambling for recruits I wouldn't put it past him.

What do we have? 7 new JUCO recruits. Pretty safe to assume he needs to turn it around fast. Losing some of his talented incoming players due to losing a few coaches wouldn't exactly be the fastest way to turn a program around. Sure its shady if this is what went down but you can't exactly Blame Becks for doing it. Still he hasn't exactly shown the best judgement in his tenure.

---------------------------------------------
--- UIEightyThree wrote:

619illinibooyah wrote: You think Beckman held onto the coaches to keep the current recruiting class and then maybe sent out the signals that if you stay your job might not be safe?

that is certainly one way to view things and I dont know that we will get a chance to know the 100% truth in the short term.   

Truth is,  the first staff he assembled was weak at the coaching part of the duties.   Whether the new staff is better wont be known until late September.    Its certainly been an unusual Jan-Feb for the staff.

---------------------------------------------

You just can't let a thread go by without over the top hyperbole. There are competent coaches from Pop Warner to the NFL. Give it a break one-trick-pony.

TheBeastisback wrote: how can ANYONE (except Mike Thomas, publicly) deny that Tim Beckman is out of his league?

619illinibooyah wrote: You think Beckman held onto the coaches to keep the current recruiting class and then maybe sent out the signals that if you stay your job might not be safe?

LOL.  Are you serious?   

These coaches are all bailing out of a sinking ship .

Every single one of them has upgraded to a more stable situation.

They all know the situation here is beyond repair.

What I don't understand is why half this board fails to realize this?

I don't see the big deal.

It was a bad year, changes were needed, changes were made.

The secondary was bad last year and shouldn't have been.

I've been supportive of the staff hoping for the best but the big deal is Why? are guys like Clinksdale leaving. He's been close to TB.

the people that speak negatively about MT firing TB after one year need to remember that we are already paying BW and RZ to not coach at UofI.  it is possible that even if he wanted to fire TB last year that he was told he cannot due to funding issues.

i don't think MT is in denial about TB, but i do think there were a lot of $$$ reasons not to fire him after one year.  i think if TB slaps up another stinker he is gone.

i think the criticism of MT is over the top.  his track record is good.  he's 4/5 on hires (Kelly, Jones, Cronin, Groce).  his hands are likely tied because of $$$.  he had a hell of a time even hiring TB because two members of the BoT wanted a black candidate. 

ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts.

Not sure rational thoughts are allowed around here. 

illiniranger wrote: the people that speak negatively about MT firing TB after one year need to remember that we are already paying BW and RZ to not coach at UofI.  it is possible that even if he wanted to fire TB last year that he was told he cannot due to funding issues.

i don't think MT is in denial about TB, but i do think there were a lot of $$$ reasons not to fire him after one year.  i think if TB slaps up another stinker he is gone.

i think the criticism of MT is over the top.  his track record is good.  he's 4/5 on hires (Kelly, Jones, Cronin, Groce).  his hands are likely tied because of $$$.  he had a hell of a time even hiring TB because two members of the BoT wanted a black candidate. 

ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts.

It may have been a combination of money, lack of a home run replacement and the unprecedented action of firing a guy after one year. As for money, I thought his buy out was not that bad. If we're able to offer Sumlin $3mm I think we can afford TB's buyout. Another year like this one and we can't afford not to fire him. Finally with the major rebranding coming out we need to be competitive or starting with a new guy.

Most of us realize the situation, we just don't feel the need to whine about it in almost every thread. Get a grip.

Illinibat wrote:

619illinibooyah wrote: You think Beckman held onto the coaches to keep the current recruiting class and then maybe sent out the signals that if you stay your job might not be safe?

LOL.  Are you serious?   

These coaches are all bailing out of a sinking ship .

Every single one of them has upgraded to a more stable situation.

They all know the situation here is beyond repair.

What I don't understand is why half this board fails to realize this?

illiniranger wrote: the people that speak negatively about MT firing TB after one year need to remember that we are already paying BW and RZ to not coach at UofI.  it is possible that even if he wanted to fire TB last year that he was told he cannot due to funding issues.

i don't think MT is in denial about TB, but i do think there were a lot of $$$ reasons not to fire him after one year.  i think if TB slaps up another stinker he is gone.

i think the criticism of MT is over the top.  his track record is good.  he's 4/5 on hires (Kelly, Jones, Cronin, Groce).  his hands are likely tied because of $$$.  he had a hell of a time even hiring TB because two members of the BoT wanted a black candidate. 

ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts.

"ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts."

Amen!

felix7 wrote: Most of us realize the situation, we just don't feel the need to whine about it in almost every thread. Get a grip.

Then why do you post the same thing in response to almost every thread?

illiniranger wrote: the people that speak negatively about MT firing TB after one year need to remember that we are already paying BW and RZ to not coach at UofI.  it is possible that even if he wanted to fire TB last year that he was told he cannot due to funding issues.

i don't think MT is in denial about TB, but i do think there were a lot of $$$ reasons not to fire him after one year.  i think if TB slaps up another stinker he is gone.

i think the criticism of MT is over the top.  his track record is good.  he's 4/5 on hires (Kelly, Jones, Cronin, Groce).  his hands are likely tied because of $$$.  he had a hell of a time even hiring TB because two members of the BoT wanted a black candidate. 

ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts.

1.  MT is responsible for operating within a budget his own office sets for itself.  If he screwed up and limited his options by hiring and firing too many coaches at the same time, then he most certainly deserves criticism for that.

2.   There is no $$$ decision that rationalizes keeping a failing coach at this level.  None.  Zero.   The damage done by one more year of dumpster fire Tim is going to be FAR greater than the cost of admitting the mistake, firing him TODAY and starting over --- as opposed to one year from now ... Every day that goes by compounds this problem on multiple levels.  MT made the wrong decision after the season and is continuing to make the wrong decision each day this debacle is allowed to continue ...

3.  If, as you say, 'someone' is telling him what to do, he should resign in protest.  What BCS athletic director lacks autonomy in the hiring and firing of the football coach?   At any program where football is expected to generate revenue, that decision is the single most important function of the entire job.

4.  MT doesn't get a "pass" because his hiring of coaches in other sports.  That's like 95% irrelevant.  The football program is what counts and its nearly ALL that counts.  Even at a basketball school like Illinois, the entire system is designed so that football funds everything.  The entire sports program is a failure when the football program is a failure.

Stuff like this is obsurd.  By all accounts, he made a very competitive offer to Kevin Sumlin.  Sumlin just happened to get an offer by a much more attractive job.  I get tired of re-hashing the past, just because somebody has an agenda and wants to ignore known things like that.  Nobody here knows whether or not money will be a factor in Beckman's future.  He's had one year.  For an already unattractive job, firing a guy after one season isn't going to do anything to make the job look better.  Beckman was not going to be fired after one season.  Anybody with an ounce of common sense would know that. 

Illinibat wrote: 1.  MT is responsible for operating within a budget his own office sets for itself.  If he screwed up and limited his options by hiring and firing too many coaches at the same time, then he most certainly deserves criticism for that.

1.  i think your argument isn't that cogent.  in point 1 you say it's MT's fault for firing too many coaches at once and that it's his fault that there is no money.  then in point 2 you say "there's no reason to keep a coach failing at this level."  If point 2 is correct, then he had to fire both BW and RZ, thereby making point 1 invalid.  Or, if point 1 is valid, then point 2 must be invalid.  that begins from an assumption that both BW and RZ were failing, which I believe.

2.  taken without the context, i don't really disagree with you.  if TB isn't the guy, then he isn't the guy.  but i think there is a lot of context we don't know and never will. 

3.  this point is redickulus.  if we all resigned because somebody above us told us what to do we would all be out of a job.  MT, like any AD, answers to people.  if he resigned because he wouldn't answer to those people, he would be unemployable, because no other University would want a guy that fundamentally can't follow orders.  you think he wants to put himself and his family into that position?  Also, please save any rebuttals on this point.  I served in combat and did multiple deployments.  I was told many times by my commanders to do things I didn't agree with.  I made as strenuous an objection as was appropriate, but when the decision was made, i executed within his framework to the best of my ability.  My men couldn't resign - i wasn't about to either.

4.  this point isn't even remotely accurate.  first, the context of the comment is that MT has been successful in the past.  when you are looking at hiring and firing someone you are essentially look at two things.  what have they done in the past and what is their potential in the future?  looking at his past, MT has done a pretty solid job of hiring coaches.  looking at his potential, he took Cincy to a better place, so why not Illinois?  ultimately, i don't know MT well enough to determine his potential, but I would be interested to see what the financial house looks like before passing judgement.  Also, your point about fball driving the engine... well, Duke seems to be doing pretty well for themselves without much of a football program.  Same for KU, IU, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville (until recently.  Their bball team was good enough to get YUM to fork over money for one of the best facilities in the country), Pitt, and so forth.  These athletic depts aren't in crisis because their fball teams are mediocre at best.

Illinibat wrote:

illiniranger wrote: the people that speak negatively about MT firing TB after one year need to remember that we are already paying BW and RZ to not coach at UofI.  it is possible that even if he wanted to fire TB last year that he was told he cannot due to funding issues.

i don't think MT is in denial about TB, but i do think there were a lot of $$$ reasons not to fire him after one year.  i think if TB slaps up another stinker he is gone.

i think the criticism of MT is over the top.  his track record is good.  he's 4/5 on hires (Kelly, Jones, Cronin, Groce).  his hands are likely tied because of $$$.  he had a hell of a time even hiring TB because two members of the BoT wanted a black candidate. 

ultimately, we are all speculating about something we have little to no information about other than 3rd hand accounts.

1.  MT is responsible for operating within a budget his own office sets for itself.  If he screwed up and limited his options by hiring and firing too many coaches at the same time, then he most certainly deserves criticism for that.

2.   There is no $$$ decision that rationalizes keeping a failing coach at this level.  None.  Zero.   The damage done by one more year of dumpster fire Tim is going to be FAR greater than the cost of admitting the mistake, firing him TODAY and starting over --- as opposed to one year from now ... Every day that goes by compounds this problem on multiple levels.  MT made the wrong decision after the season and is continuing to make the wrong decision each day this debacle is allowed to continue ...

3.  If, as you say, 'someone' is telling him what to do, he should resign in protest.  What BCS athletic director lacks autonomy in the hiring and firing of the football coach?   At any program where football is expected to generate revenue, that decision is the single most important function of the entire job.

4.  MT doesn't get a "pass" because his hiring of coaches in other sports.  That's like 95% irrelevant.  The football program is what counts and its nearly ALL that counts.  Even at a basketball school like Illinois, the entire system is designed so that football funds everything.  The entire sports program is a failure when the football program is a failure.

BZuppke wrote: It is troubling to say the least that there is so much turnover on the staff regardless of the reasons.  As for MT, unless you're close to him and know this for sure, I wouldn't guarantee he's in denial.  Last year there was a lot of speculation that MT would fire Beckman if he had a strong replacement ready to go.  If this were true, we can only surmise he didn't have a home run replacement so it didn't make sense to fire Beckman.  MT may be ready to fire Beckman this year if things aren't going well (on the field and in recruiting).  Assistant coaches may have gotten wind of this and figured they'd take a stable job elsewhere rather then be out in the marketplace this fall.  We also surmised that with a sword hanging over his head, TB would have trouble finding strong assistants.  Is this what we're seeing?

Thats exactly what his response was when I  directly asked him, what gave him any indication that Tim Beckman would be successful at Illinois?

I respond to the folks who post over the top hyperbole or uselessly dog the coaches and/or AD because I think many here are tired of the repeated nature of the posts many of you make. Most here already know your views. Isn't that pretty clear by now? Anytime you want to stop looking like juveniles crying about a broken toy, that would be appreciated by those like me, who just want to follow their favorite team.

Illinibat wrote:

felix7 wrote: Most of us realize the situation, we just don't feel the need to whine about it in almost every thread. Get a grip.

Then why do you post the same thing in response to almost every thread?

chiefrunninggame wrote: I don't see the big deal.

It was a bad year, changes were needed, changes were made.

The secondary was bad last year and shouldn't have been.

Cincinnati is a better job than Illinois, changes were made because coaches left, not because coaches were fired. 

Look at the quality of coaches we've landed vs the quality of coaches we've lost

We lost the most talented coach, Gilmore and replaced him with a guy who was coaching D3 football last year.
We lost our OL coach and replaced him with a guy that was unemployed.
We lost our WR coach and replaced him with a guy who has never coached receivers in college.

Also, tell me why the secondary should have been good? Hawthorne, Green, Hull, and Sanni? There will never be another secondary more overrated than that pair in Illinois history.

ATTENTION:  NOBODY DISAGREE WITH felix7 FROM NOW ON!  HE WOULD APPRECIATE NO MORE DISAGREEMENT!   ONLY POSTS SUPPORTING THE TEAM,  TIM BECKMAN AND MIKE THOMAS WILL BE ALLOWED BY felix7 GOING FORWARD!

felix7 wrote: that would be appreciated by those like me, who just want to follow their favorite team.