Kathi531 wrote: I don't think dredging this up again is in their best interest....

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BZuppke wrote: Agenda? What was Freeh's agenda?

Oh, I don't know....maybe we should ask Richard Jewell what Freeh's agenda was when FBI honcho Louis decided to pin the bombing at the Atlanta Olympics squarely on poor Richard's shoulders. From hero to Public Enemy Numero Uno back to hero, no thanks to Louis save for that "Public Enemy" part.

Haste makes waste, right, Louis??

We certainly know what the agenda of the Paterno family and the various lawsuits are.

Okay, please do share. You did say "know", right? Wait...you said "certainly know." As in you're certain. Let's here it. As Joe Friday used to say on Dragnet, "Just the facts, ma'm."

Anyone who pretends to believe that Paterno and company were blissfully ignorant of Sandusky's crimes for over 10 years is either a fool or has an agenda.

Unlike you, I don't "pretend" or "guess" at anything involving this case. It's much too serious for that.

I deal in facts in my line of work. It's in my DNA, how I've been trained for over four decades in my workplace. I know...bad habit that I just can't seem to shake but it's served me well. I'm interested only in the facts surrounding this case (few of which you personally have managed to provide here) and not dot-connecting or opinions or stating "facts" with nothing to back them up (e.g. Louis Freeh and, ummm, you). I seek nothing more than justice for all in a court of law, nothing more and nothing less. You on the other hand have not once expressed the same. Not one time.

Btw, I also laughed at that little "students of history" snippet you included in a previous post. I bet the unjustly accused and publically vilified members of the Duke Men's LAX team would get a kick out of that. Think they appreciated their right to due process before their public hanging?? Are you good at tying knots?

BZuppke wrote: Regardless of the qualifier, for one to wish he had done more is in itself an admission that he had knowledge of the situation and the power to do something about it.

Zookenation wrote:

Kathi531 wrote: I don't think dredging this up again is in their best interest....

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I would like to see Joe Paterno's legacy occasionally brought up in public on occassion just so it can have a giant piss taken on it over and over again.  Same goes for anyone that defends his legacy.

BZuppke wrote: Glad to know you're for due process. Yes we know what the Paterno family agenda is: To resurrect Joe's legacy. As for the governor and congressmen: Votes from those who are pissed off their favorite football team got nailed. As for Freeh: He was hired by the PSU BoT. Was their and his agenda to incriminate PSU, Paterno and others? The BoT itself was slapped for not being more involved. So what is Safehaven's agenda? Diehard PSU/Paterno fan? Inveterate NCAA hater? Patriotic defender of due process?

SafeHaven wrote:

BZuppke wrote: Regardless of the qualifier, for one to wish he had done more is in itself an admission that he had knowledge of the situation and the power to do something about it.

LMAO!!

"With the benefit of hindsight, I sure do wish I would have picked those last two winning lottery numbers so I would've won a helluva lot more than a measly fifty bucks.

Dammit all, where was "the knowledge", "the power" to pick those two numbers when I really needed it?!?!

BZuppke wrote: 

Anyone charged with a crime has and will receive due process. The standard for NCAA violations does not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 

The "standard for NCAA violations" as per their very own bylaws does not now nor has it ever applied to criminal cases, not even in the aforementioned Duke Men's LAX case with the caveat that the NCAA (rightfully) added an extra year's eligibility to affected team members that had been wrongfully suspended by the University for a crime they, in a court of law, were found not to have committed.

And as for that "not proof beyond a reasonable doubt" diatribe, why was Auburn's Cam Newton not immediately disqualified from participating in any games the season the Tigers won the MNC trophy. The NCAA would have us believe there "was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt", hence Newton played. 

In my opinion, Louis Freeh's opinion, the NCAA's opinion the PSU BoT, Dick Thornburgh's opinion (until recently) Governor Corbitt's opinion (until recently) and many others, there was more than sufficient evidence to reasonably conclude that Paterno and others knew what was going on and made the decision to look the other way. Not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

The lack of subpoena power is always going to be a thorn in the NCAA's side. Just look at how the NCAA tried to illegally circumvent that little shortcoming of their's in the University of Miami fiasco re their feeble, amateurish attempts to flex their muscles no matter the legality.  There's a reason, and a damn good one at that, re why the NCAA cannot set itself up as chief judge, jury, and executioner in even quasi-criminal matters absent subpoena power.

If PSU wanted to fight the NCAA they had that option.

No, they most certainly did not have that option, not via the NCAA. PSU was denied the opportunity to contest the sanctions thru the NCAA's very own Infractions Appeals Committee, purportedly a first in NCAA history that this process was denied a member institution. PSU was not only denied the time to study and respond in kind to the sanctions levied, they were denied an audience.

They could have rejected the conclusions of the guy they hired... 

The PSU Bot never so much as read the Freeh Report prior to Freeh's PC. The report was accepted "as is," the BoT never once believing it would be used as a tool by Emmert to levy sanctions and that the report's sole purpose would be to right the wrongs re Freeh's recommendations to improve University governance. No NCAA investigator(s) were ever assigned to the case, another first (you can look it up).

...and forced the NCAA to prosecute them through the regular NCAA process.

Wrong again. PSU was denied that opportunity as noted above. Look it up.

If that didnt work out they could have appealed to a court of law. Why did they agree to a consent decree instead of fighting? 

Because PSU was faced with accepting the sanctions as presented or they were faced with the death penalty. Classic case of either/or. Want proof? Take another look at ESPN's Bob Ley's post-PC Q&A with both Mark Emmert and his right hand henchman, Ed Ray, in separate interviews, one immediately following the other. Emmert and Ray actually contradict each other re the death penalty being in play. It was.

Because in my opinion they knew there was sufficient evidence against them.

Fine and dandy. You're an "opinion" kind of guy. I prefer to stick to the facts. And to do my homework in the process. Speaking of, remember that Page 53 in the Freeh Report....

iluvrt wrote:

SafeHaven wrote:

BZuppke wrote: Regardless of the qualifier, for one to wish he had done more is in itself an admission that he had knowledge of the situation and the power to do something about it.

LMAO!!

"With the benefit of hindsight, I sure do wish I would have picked those last two winning lottery numbers so I would've won a helluva lot more than a measly fifty bucks.

Dammit all, where was "the knowledge", "the power" to pick those two numbers when I really needed it?!?!

Why not go kiss the Paterno statue's arse.  He will probably like it.  Losers trying to get out of the punishment they accepted.  The culture of ped state u, where Paterno is king, and kids need not hope for protection.

SafeHaven wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

SafeHaven wrote:

BZuppke wrote: Regardless of the qualifier, for one to wish he had done more is in itself an admission that he had knowledge of the situation and the power to do something about it.

LMAO!!

"With the benefit of hindsight, I sure do wish I would have picked those last two winning lottery numbers so I would've won a helluva lot more than a measly fifty bucks.

Dammit all, where was "the knowledge", "the power" to pick those two numbers when I really needed it?!?!

Why not go kiss the Paterno statue's arse.  He will probably like it.  Losers trying to get out of the punishment they accepted.  The culture of ped state u, where Paterno is king, and kids need not hope for protection.

Honest question....can you read and comprehend anything in this thread or is that challenging? Education and knowledge = power. Name calling and sophomoric references is juvenile. Maybe that explains things.

douglascountyillinifan wrote: 
Honest question.  Why do you care so deeply about what a bunch of sophomoric juveniles post on a fan board?   Here's another honest question...how in the hell could a man of JoePa's power and esteem NOT know about the actions of his underlings for so long?  in my opinion, he either knew and chose to protect the reputation of PSU instead of doing what was right, or he was just a doddering, clueless old figurehead.  Either option doesn't really reflect well on this "legacy" does it?

douglascountyillinifan wrote: Here's another honest question...how in the hell could a man of JoePa's power and esteem NOT know about the actions of his underlings for so long?  in my opinion, he either knew and chose to protect the reputation of PSU instead of doing what was right, or he was just a doddering, clueless old figurehead.  Either option doesn't really reflect well on this "legacy" does it?

TheDawson wrote: I'm not sure whether they're a bunch of scumbags or they're just the dumbest family in the US

They're trying to save face - plain and simple.  I appreciate what they're trying to do, but the sports critics aren't buying it.  This "report" was commissioned with a purpose that doesn't include the facts; just the facts to draw attention away from JoePa.  Sandusky did it, JoePa knew and didn't do more to stop it.  That's what it boils down to.

SafeHaven wrote:

douglascountyillinifan wrote: Here's another honest question...how in the hell could a man of JoePa's power and esteem NOT know about the actions of his underlings for so long?  in my opinion, he either knew and chose to protect the reputation of PSU instead of doing what was right, or he was just a doddering, clueless old figurehead.  Either option doesn't really reflect well on this "legacy" does it?

"Joe's legacy" at this point is the absolute least of my concerns. It is what it is no matter how the upcoming trials/testimonies play out re what really happened.

There's at least one poll that's been conducted where a sizable number of those responding identified Paterno as the actual perpetrator of the crimes and not Sandusky. Not sure what that says about our society at large but I know with absolute certainty it's not good.

You're entitled to your opinion. I choose to wait and see before finalizing any opinions as there are way too many unanswered questions that deserve definitive answers as opposed to mere speculation without substantiation (e.g. the Freeh Report). If those awaiting trial are found guilty as charged, have at them. I'll be in the same line as you awaiting my turn. If convicted, they will have done imo irreparable harm to a great University and would be deserving of the maximum sentencing possible.

But what if there really is more to this story such as there was in the Duke LAX scandal (just to site one criminal proceeding) back in 2007?? I want and hope for all the truth to come out in the Sandusky scandal...just as it ultimately did in the Duke case...no matter whom is affected.

SafeHaven wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

SafeHaven wrote:

BZuppke wrote: Regardless of the qualifier, for one to wish he had done more is in itself an admission that he had knowledge of the situation and the power to do something about it.

LMAO!!

"With the benefit of hindsight, I sure do wish I would have picked those last two winning lottery numbers so I would've won a helluva lot more than a measly fifty bucks.

Dammit all, where was "the knowledge", "the power" to pick those two numbers when I really needed it?!?!

Why not go kiss the Paterno statue's arse.  He will probably like it.  Losers trying to get out of the punishment they accepted.  The culture of ped state u, where Paterno is king, and kids need not hope for protection.

Honest question....can you read and comprehend anything in this thread or is that challenging? Education and knowledge = power. Name calling and sophomoric references is juvenile. Maybe that explains things.

SafeHaven wrote:

Zookenation wrote:

Kathi531 wrote: I don't think dredging this up again is in their best interest....

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nc...o?ncid=webmail1

I would like to see Joe Paterno's legacy occasionally brought up in public on occassion just so it can have a giant piss taken on it over and over again.  Same goes for anyone that defends his legacy.

Sure do hope it wasn't a UIUC education that prompted that little whizbang.

I defend the right to due process for all, even you. Nothing more than that. And if it comforts you, I will defend that right to my dying day. It's one of the things I take great pride in having fought for. From personal experience, be thankful you live in this country.