CaptainOver wrote: You seriously need to seek help.  Devoting this much energy to defending a pederast and his enablers is not healthy.

indynittany wrote:

blahblahblahblahblah bunch of horse crap

RavesIllini wrote:

indynittany wrote:

We need to be better than this!

Oh god, my sides.

If there is one good thing that came out of the absolute horse **** Paterno report, it has allowed the crazies to come back out of the wood work and put on displays like this.  It's...fantastic.

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

indynittany wrote:

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

You will never understand this story until you understand the differences between the alumni and the board of trustees.  And you will never understand this story as long as you think it has anything to do with Sandusky and anything to do with football. 

The board's leadership has been abysmal at best.  The BOT hired Freeh to validate its actions when this crisis first broke.  It was a transparent attempt and while it provided more red meat to a press that lacks curiosity, it did not fool the alumni who examined this closely from day one.

It's a mistake to say that PSU is trying to reverse the sanctions.  Penn State wanted the sanctions in the hope that people would stop asking questions.  PSU is not part of the lawsuit filed by the governor.  And for his part, he's just trying to save his political bacon. 

In fact, the governor, who by virtue of being governor sits on the BOT, is in this up to his neck.  He was attorney general and has deep ties to Sandusky's charity.  He is now being investigated by the new AG for his handling of the Sandusky case.

There are various state child welfare and law enforcement agencies who allowed Sandusky to adopt six children, to foster dozens more and dropped the ball back in 1998 and since.  There is the Second Mile itself, which Sandusky founded.  None of these has received the scrutiny they deserve.

There is a much bigger story here and it is beginning to unfold.  The Paterno report has exposed those who have tried to hide behind the Freeh report to cover their actions.  Things will be decided in the courts and the media will be forced to tell the truth.

Finally, anyone who says that those fighting this lack concern for the victims have not read the Paterno report.  The Clemente section in particular is heavily focused on educating the public on the nature and identification of acquaintence, good guy child predators.

IlliniBigDog89 wrote:

indynittany wrote:

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

You will never understand this story until you understand the differences between the alumni and the board of trustees.  And you will never understand this story as long as you think it has anything to do with Sandusky and anything to do with football. 

The board's leadership has been abysmal at best.  The BOT hired Freeh to validate its actions when this crisis first broke.  It was a transparent attempt and while it provided more red meat to a press that lacks curiosity, it did not fool the alumni who examined this closely from day one.

It's a mistake to say that PSU is trying to reverse the sanctions.  Penn State wanted the sanctions in the hope that people would stop asking questions.  PSU is not part of the lawsuit filed by the governor.  And for his part, he's just trying to save his political bacon. 

In fact, the governor, who by virtue of being governor sits on the BOT, is in this up to his neck.  He was attorney general and has deep ties to Sandusky's charity.  He is now being investigated by the new AG for his handling of the Sandusky case.

There are various state child welfare and law enforcement agencies who allowed Sandusky to adopt six children, to foster dozens more and dropped the ball back in 1998 and since.  There is the Second Mile itself, which Sandusky founded.  None of these has received the scrutiny they deserve.

There is a much bigger story here and it is beginning to unfold.  The Paterno report has exposed those who have tried to hide behind the Freeh report to cover their actions.  Things will be decided in the courts and the media will be forced to tell the truth.

Finally, anyone who says that those fighting this lack concern for the victims have not read the Paterno report.  The Clemente section in particular is heavily focused on educating the public on the nature and identification of acquaintence, good guy child predators.

Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

indynittany wrote:

IlliniBigDog89 wrote:

indynittany wrote:

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

You will never understand this story until you understand the differences between the alumni and the board of trustees.  And you will never understand this story as long as you think it has anything to do with Sandusky and anything to do with football. 

The board's leadership has been abysmal at best.  The BOT hired Freeh to validate its actions when this crisis first broke.  It was a transparent attempt and while it provided more red meat to a press that lacks curiosity, it did not fool the alumni who examined this closely from day one.

It's a mistake to say that PSU is trying to reverse the sanctions.  Penn State wanted the sanctions in the hope that people would stop asking questions.  PSU is not part of the lawsuit filed by the governor.  And for his part, he's just trying to save his political bacon. 

In fact, the governor, who by virtue of being governor sits on the BOT, is in this up to his neck.  He was attorney general and has deep ties to Sandusky's charity.  He is now being investigated by the new AG for his handling of the Sandusky case.

There are various state child welfare and law enforcement agencies who allowed Sandusky to adopt six children, to foster dozens more and dropped the ball back in 1998 and since.  There is the Second Mile itself, which Sandusky founded.  None of these has received the scrutiny they deserve.

There is a much bigger story here and it is beginning to unfold.  The Paterno report has exposed those who have tried to hide behind the Freeh report to cover their actions.  Things will be decided in the courts and the media will be forced to tell the truth.

Finally, anyone who says that those fighting this lack concern for the victims have not read the Paterno report.  The Clemente section in particular is heavily focused on educating the public on the nature and identification of acquaintence, good guy child predators.

Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

Not a problem.  I'm sure you'll figure it out when ESPN tells you what to think.

indynittany wrote:

IlliniBigDog89 wrote:

indynittany wrote:

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

You will never understand this story until you understand the differences between the alumni and the board of trustees.  And you will never understand this story as long as you think it has anything to do with Sandusky and anything to do with football. 

The board's leadership has been abysmal at best.  The BOT hired Freeh to validate its actions when this crisis first broke.  It was a transparent attempt and while it provided more red meat to a press that lacks curiosity, it did not fool the alumni who examined this closely from day one.

It's a mistake to say that PSU is trying to reverse the sanctions.  Penn State wanted the sanctions in the hope that people would stop asking questions.  PSU is not part of the lawsuit filed by the governor.  And for his part, he's just trying to save his political bacon. 

In fact, the governor, who by virtue of being governor sits on the BOT, is in this up to his neck.  He was attorney general and has deep ties to Sandusky's charity.  He is now being investigated by the new AG for his handling of the Sandusky case.

There are various state child welfare and law enforcement agencies who allowed Sandusky to adopt six children, to foster dozens more and dropped the ball back in 1998 and since.  There is the Second Mile itself, which Sandusky founded.  None of these has received the scrutiny they deserve.

There is a much bigger story here and it is beginning to unfold.  The Paterno report has exposed those who have tried to hide behind the Freeh report to cover their actions.  Things will be decided in the courts and the media will be forced to tell the truth.

Finally, anyone who says that those fighting this lack concern for the victims have not read the Paterno report.  The Clemente section in particular is heavily focused on educating the public on the nature and identification of acquaintence, good guy child predators.

Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

Not a problem.  I'm sure you'll figure it out when ESPN tells you what to think.

IlliniBigDog89 wrote:

indynittany wrote:

IlliniBigDog89 wrote:

indynittany wrote:

BZuppke wrote: To me it says much about the "the Penn State way" that Freeh described.  At the time it all hit the fan, they were willing to accept the Freeh report and the NCAA sanctions.  Now that they've recovered themselves, they're trying to get out of the punishment.  The thing that is lacking more than anything now and then (again as Freeh pointed out) - is any regard for the victims.  The desire is still to protect PSU football and Paterno's legacy, first and foremost.  As Tallyrand said of the restored Bourbon dynasty in France:  "They have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing."

You will never understand this story until you understand the differences between the alumni and the board of trustees.  And you will never understand this story as long as you think it has anything to do with Sandusky and anything to do with football. 

The board's leadership has been abysmal at best.  The BOT hired Freeh to validate its actions when this crisis first broke.  It was a transparent attempt and while it provided more red meat to a press that lacks curiosity, it did not fool the alumni who examined this closely from day one.

It's a mistake to say that PSU is trying to reverse the sanctions.  Penn State wanted the sanctions in the hope that people would stop asking questions.  PSU is not part of the lawsuit filed by the governor.  And for his part, he's just trying to save his political bacon. 

In fact, the governor, who by virtue of being governor sits on the BOT, is in this up to his neck.  He was attorney general and has deep ties to Sandusky's charity.  He is now being investigated by the new AG for his handling of the Sandusky case.

There are various state child welfare and law enforcement agencies who allowed Sandusky to adopt six children, to foster dozens more and dropped the ball back in 1998 and since.  There is the Second Mile itself, which Sandusky founded.  None of these has received the scrutiny they deserve.

There is a much bigger story here and it is beginning to unfold.  The Paterno report has exposed those who have tried to hide behind the Freeh report to cover their actions.  Things will be decided in the courts and the media will be forced to tell the truth.

Finally, anyone who says that those fighting this lack concern for the victims have not read the Paterno report.  The Clemente section in particular is heavily focused on educating the public on the nature and identification of acquaintence, good guy child predators.

Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

Not a problem.  I'm sure you'll figure it out when ESPN tells you what to think.

This is what I mean - you are here defending yourself against a group you don't even know anything about.  Not very familiar with the level of respect we have here in the middle of the country for opinions provided by the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network, are you?

BZuppke wrote: "Hopefully, this won't work."  I agree.  They shouldn't compromise at all.  The NCAA should have given PSU the death penalty.  I'm not trying for hyperbole here.  I'm dead serious.

This is nonsense.  There are no facts to support any sanctions, let alone what came down.

Don't forget, the Freeh report criticized the BOT as well as failing to exercise enough oversight.

Window dressing!  He got paid a lot of money to shape this narrative.  He had to make it look good.  Even so, he still failed.

You also say the BOT and Second Mile don't want more of an investigation because they don't want people to find out which of them had "prior knowledge about Sandusky".  Really?  How could anyone have prior knowledge since guys close to Sandusky like Curley, the "coach" et al. were totally and utterly fooled by him (he was considered a "saint" you once said).

The professionals messed this up going back to 1998.  Corbett slow played the investigation for three years so as not to derail his quest to become governor.  There is more to all this than what has come out.

You really show your cards in this last post:  "We want out of the sanctions so PSU football can continue to be our life and passion"

You're being shallow.  I'm not worried about PSU football.  We've got the best young coach in the country and he's killing it!  PSU will survive the sanctions and be stronger than ever. 

The cards I am showing have been consistent for over a year.  Paterno got screwed.  He and his family did not deserve what Penn State did to him.  Those responsible, including Corbett and Emmert, need to be exposed and held accountable.

IlliniBigDog89 wrote: 
Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

illinijwp wrote:

IlliniBigDog89 wrote: 
Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read!  Lets remember back 2-3 years ago.  Illinois is in a state of shambles.  They fire the president.  There is major controversy in the state.  Actually the state issues are still taking place and have been for the last 50+ years.  There is a culture of corruption in our state that is now a joke among everyone nationally.  They now coin it "the Chicago way" or "the Chicago Machine."  Under this system people have been murdered, hundreds of millions have been squandered, and if you look hard enough you could probably find human trafficking/sex exploitation (it is the largest industry in the world).   By your reasoning everyone who lives in the state is responsible.  If thats going to far...then you could say for a fact everyone in Chicago is responsible.  Everyone stands by and does nothing to change the establishment.  They actually add to it because they do nothing and are apathetic about it.  

Currently the PSU situation is the first thing on your mind but there will come another story just as heinous in a couple of months that will be just as abhorrent and this message board will make a thread about it how terrible those people are who let it happen all the while their state and their system is broken and they do nothing to stand against it, stop it or even speak against it because they have accepted it.  I'm not an outsider...I live in Chicago.

Quit throwing pebbles when we deserve a boulder...

illinijwp wrote:

IlliniBigDog89 wrote: 
Speaking of "you will never understand" scenarios, I have one for you.  Apparently you and your fellow PSU defenders on here will never understand that it is people EXACTLY LIKE YOU who are responsible for this whole situation to begin with.  Sandusky thrived in a culture that obviously cared far more about the football team and its reputation than anything else including the safety and well being of innocent vulnerable children.  There were clearly many that knew of or strongly suspected him of his crimes for years or decades.  He skated for so long because of the football team being valued above all else.  THAT EXACT SAME ATTITUDE is clear and prevalent in your backward-*** strategy of going to extreme, time consuming lengths to attempt to come here and defend him on a fan forum that has no direct ties to the Penn State community whatsoever.  Your latest post above can be simply translated to "it's everyone's fault but Penn State's".  YOU ARE REINFORCING OUR OPINIONS OF HOW THOROUGHLY DESPICABLE PENN STATE FOOTBALL FANS/DEFENDERS ARE.  YOUR LENGTHY RANTS ARE NOT GOING TO EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER CHANGE ONE PERSON'S OPINION HERE.  HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS?!?!

I'm done.

This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read!  Lets remember back 2-3 years ago.  Illinois is in a state of shambles.  They fire the president.  There is major controversy in the state.  Actually the state issues are still taking place and have been for the last 50+ years.  There is a culture of corruption in our state that is now a joke among everyone nationally.  They now coin it "the Chicago way" or "the Chicago Machine."  Under this system people have been murdered, hundreds of millions have been squandered, and if you look hard enough you could probably find human trafficking/sex exploitation (it is the largest industry in the world).   By your reasoning everyone who lives in the state is responsible.  If thats going to far...then you could say for a fact everyone in Chicago is responsible.  Everyone stands by and does nothing to change the establishment.  They actually add to it because they do nothing and are apathetic about it.  

Currently the PSU situation is the first thing on your mind but there will come another story just as heinous in a couple of months that will be just as abhorrent and this message board will make a thread about it how terrible those people are who let it happen all the while their state and their system is broken and they do nothing to stand against it, stop it or even speak against it because they have accepted it.  I'm not an outsider...I live in Chicago.

Quit throwing pebbles when we deserve a boulder...

Illinigrad wrote: ....so we could all just forget about the school for a couple of years and the dreadful baggage the FB program continually carries and will for decades.

BZuppke wrote:  So even the AG was scared to take on the Penn State way.