Oh, so now it's because of the administration that Zook didn't succeed...what a crock of **** statement by a joke of a poster.

Illinigrad wrote:

It is simple really:

If Zook had not been undercut by the administration for three years running, he could have recruited.  He was a lame duck coach and could not recruit, especially the last two years.  That is why we are where we are.  

Regardless:  Zook would have done MUCH better last season because he had a competent coaching staff, especially on D, and he would have replaced Petrino. Also, 

"his" players would have played there butts off for him.  Even in Zook's last season, if Thomas had not undercut Zook and sold the team out, they probably would have picked up at least one or two more wins. I am still convinced that the overall program would have been better by retaining Zook.  At IL you don't fire a coaching staff that takes a team to two straight bowls and start over. You just don't.  But Thomas did and if Beckman does not get the job done I would prefer that Thomas NOT select the next coach.

Beckman: Very questionable coach and weak staff.  Showed nothing.  There was not a single redeeming aspect of last season.  You could not trash a returning bowl team any worse than Beckman and his staff did.  The team did not buy in, obviously, and was woefully unprepared for games.  Beckman was simply out coached through the entire season and acted like a bumbling guy on the sidelines. He needs to prove a lot of us wrong by really showing he can coach the boys up.  The staff he is putting together appears to be better.  So, there is a SLIGHT glimmer of hope, but only slight.

Another quality, insightful post from this clown.

iluvrt wrote:

STLINI wrote: So make your point then, don't lie about the facts and make the claim that your observations are based on fact.  I know by now that about 1% of what you say is based on any sort of fact. 

TheBeastisback wrote: the original point was that tb was a result of a poorly organized, failed coaching search and I don't want mt hiring his successor.

STLINI wrote: Very little that you say is ever truthfull.  Zook did not succeed on 0-fer.  Turner won 1 conference game in his last season.  Zook won 2 in his last season before TB.  Zook did not have a "great" recruiting class until his 3rd season. 

As usual, you twist numbers and make claims that they are facts to support your rant.  Now follow up with some more garbage.  We all know that Illinois didn't win a conference game last year, and that Beckman will be gone if he can't improve.  If you can't present any new material, what's your point? 

TheBeastisback wrote: we fire coaches for 0-fers. Zook got a pass because he succeeded an 0-fer and had 0-fer talent, with a great recruiting class.

Beckman did not have 0-fer talent. Maybe the talent wasn't bowl talent, but it was not 0-fer. The talent gor 0-fer coaching. As for the recruits, This is a good class, but not a great class. The new coaches seem to be better than what we have, abd Cubit's experience could be very helpful. I think Beckman gets 3 years, but we need progress in a hurry.

My opinions are conclusions based on observable fact. A conference 0-fer is such a fact. 

Don't cut me any slack. I'm happy to debate the issues with people who are more open minded than that idiot ahs.

ahsftbll32 wrote: Oh, so now it's because of the administration that Zook didn't succeed...what a crock of **** statement by a joke of a poster.

Illinigrad wrote:

It is simple really:

If Zook had not been undercut by the administration for three years running, he could have recruited.  He was a lame duck coach and could not recruit, especially the last two years.  That is why we are where we are.  

Regardless:  Zook would have done MUCH better last season because he had a competent coaching staff, especially on D, and he would have replaced Petrino. Also, 

"his" players would have played there butts off for him.  Even in Zook's last season, if Thomas had not undercut Zook and sold the team out, they probably would have picked up at least one or two more wins. I am still convinced that the overall program would have been better by retaining Zook.  At IL you don't fire a coaching staff that takes a team to two straight bowls and start over. You just don't.  But Thomas did and if Beckman does not get the job done I would prefer that Thomas NOT select the next coach.

Beckman: Very questionable coach and weak staff.  Showed nothing.  There was not a single redeeming aspect of last season.  You could not trash a returning bowl team any worse than Beckman and his staff did.  The team did not buy in, obviously, and was woefully unprepared for games.  Beckman was simply out coached through the entire season and acted like a bumbling guy on the sidelines. He needs to prove a lot of us wrong by really showing he can coach the boys up.  The staff he is putting together appears to be better.  So, there is a SLIGHT glimmer of hope, but only slight.

With a 2-10 record and getting totally blown off the field in several games, I think the JOKE is on us.

---------------------------------------------
--- Illinigrad wrote:

ahsftbll32 wrote: Oh, so now it's because of the administration that Zook didn't succeed...what a crock of **** statement by a joke of a poster.

Illinigrad wrote:It is simple really:

If Zook had not been undercut by the administration for three years running, he could have recruited.  He was a lame duck coach and could not recruit, especially the last two years.  That is why we are where we are.  

Regardless:  Zook would have done MUCH better last season because he had a competent coaching staff, especially on D, and he would have replaced Petrino. Also, 

"his" players would have played there butts off for him.  Even in Zook's last season, if Thomas had not undercut Zook and sold the team out, they probably would have picked up at least one or two more wins. I am still convinced that the overall program would have been better by retaining Zook.  At IL you don't fire a coaching staff that takes a team to two straight bowls and start over. You just don't.  But Thomas did and if Beckman does not get the job done I would prefer that Thomas NOT select the next coach.

Beckman: Very questionable coach and weak staff.  Showed nothing.  There was not a single redeeming aspect of last season.  You could not trash a returning bowl team any worse than Beckman and his staff did.  The team did not buy in, obviously, and was woefully unprepared for games.  Beckman was simply out coached through the entire season and acted like a bumbling guy on the sidelines. He needs to prove a lot of us wrong by really showing he can coach the boys up.  The staff he is putting together appears to be better.  So, there is a SLIGHT glimmer of hope, but only slight.

With a 2-10 record and getting totally blown off the field in several games, I think the JOKE is on us.

---------------------------------------------

ahs, if you disagree with a poster, try and argue with 150 words why the post is invalid, not 15 saying the poster is invalid. I just don't know how much of a contributor you are to the spawn of any legitimate ideas or thoughts.

Illinigrad. I agree that Thomas did Zook no favors. To this day, I believe Petrino was the smelly turdberg that sunk the S.S. Zook, and I'm still sad to see the Zooker gone...

...but if I were in Thomas' shoes, I just don't think I could justify giving Zook his 4th offensive coordinator, no matter how tempted I'd be to do it.

ahsftbll32 wrote: Another quality, insightful post from this clown.

iluvrt wrote:

STLINI wrote: So make your point then, don't lie about the facts and make the claim that your observations are based on fact.  I know by now that about 1% of what you say is based on any sort of fact. 

TheBeastisback wrote: the original point was that tb was a result of a poorly organized, failed coaching search and I don't want mt hiring his successor.

STLINI wrote: Very little that you say is ever truthfull.  Zook did not succeed on 0-fer.  Turner won 1 conference game in his last season.  Zook won 2 in his last season before TB.  Zook did not have a "great" recruiting class until his 3rd season. 

As usual, you twist numbers and make claims that they are facts to support your rant.  Now follow up with some more garbage.  We all know that Illinois didn't win a conference game last year, and that Beckman will be gone if he can't improve.  If you can't present any new material, what's your point? 

TheBeastisback wrote: we fire coaches for 0-fers. Zook got a pass because he succeeded an 0-fer and had 0-fer talent, with a great recruiting class.

Beckman did not have 0-fer talent. Maybe the talent wasn't bowl talent, but it was not 0-fer. The talent gor 0-fer coaching. As for the recruits, This is a good class, but not a great class. The new coaches seem to be better than what we have, abd Cubit's experience could be very helpful. I think Beckman gets 3 years, but we need progress in a hurry.

My opinions are conclusions based on observable fact. A conference 0-fer is such a fact. 

Don't cut me any slack. I'm happy to debate the issues with people who are more open minded than that idiot ahs.

Oh boy arsehatfootballs is in the building providing his insightful Becks love....

yeah. They're too dumb to be weasels. They are

I love how Jack Cornell has become an all-star in retrospect on this board, rather than the guy who split time with various guys like Tyler Sands.

I love how Nate Bussey and Trulon Henry too have become irreplaceable in retrospect ... when both were minor contributors until their senior year ...

Zook never had problems replacing guys ... from Derek Walker, going to Will Davis, going to Jerry Brown, going to Clay Nurse, going to Whitney Mercilus ... we never had a problem

Buchanan, Staples and Denmark were ready to step right in and would have ...

The team won 7 games, lost Liuget, LeShoure and Martez Wilson, and they won 7 games the next year ...

We might as well rename the Beckman era, the 'blame Zook' era ...

UofIL25 wrote:

 

Comparable??  Interesting

Players who were on the 2 bowl teams that weren't on Beckman's team:
Allen (NFL draft pick), Bussey (NFL), Cornell (Starter), Dimke (S), Henry (S), Hunt (S), Jenkins (NFL), LeShoure (NFL), Liuget (NFL), Mercilus (NFL), Thomas (S), Martez (NFL), Tavon (NFL),

Freshman impact contributors that Zook left Beckman:
Null set

So, Zook eeked in (thanks to an '07 NCAA rules adjustment) to 2 bowl games, and left that   "talent" to Beckman minus 11-12 of the biggest contributors on the team (8 of which were NFL draft picks) and left him 3 consecutive poor recruiting classes

That roster is "comparable" only to the incredibly uneducated

None of the players you listed were freshman impact contributors.  So, your entire post is a logical fallacy.

And, as has been proven ad nauseum, we had at least enough talent such that the pre-season (and independent) universal consensus expected us to win at least 7 games this past year. 

Therefore, you have no legitimate argument.  All you've got is hindsight and your desperate searching for a scapegoat to deflect blame off the guy who embarrassed the university by general overall failure, the dipping fiasco, falling down on the sidelines, and screaming about lasagna.

you left out the part about insulting the weaselcats without backing it up, thus ensuring that Fitz would run up the score on us and put a MANAGER in at halfback. At least we stopped that.

Illinibat wrote:

UofIL25 wrote:

 

Comparable??  Interesting

Players who were on the 2 bowl teams that weren't on Beckman's team:
Allen (NFL draft pick), Bussey (NFL), Cornell (Starter), Dimke (S), Henry (S), Hunt (S), Jenkins (NFL), LeShoure (NFL), Liuget (NFL), Mercilus (NFL), Thomas (S), Martez (NFL), Tavon (NFL),

Freshman impact contributors that Zook left Beckman:
Null set

So, Zook eeked in (thanks to an '07 NCAA rules adjustment) to 2 bowl games, and left that   "talent" to Beckman minus 11-12 of the biggest contributors on the team (8 of which were NFL draft picks) and left him 3 consecutive poor recruiting classes

That roster is "comparable" only to the incredibly uneducated

None of the players you listed were freshman impact contributors.  So, your entire post is a logical fallacy.

And, as has been proven ad nauseum, we had at least enough talent such that the pre-season (and independent) universal consensus expected us to win at least 7 games this past year. 

Therefore, you have no legitimate argument.  All you've got is hindsight and your desperate searching for a scapegoat to deflect blame off the guy who embarrassed the university by general overall failure, the dipping fiasco, falling down on the sidelines, and screaming about lasagna.

Did an AD give Zook a shot yet or is he still not coaching college football?  Somebody with his coaching acumen isn't still toxic, right?

TheBeastisback wrote: - a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

Fire Coach Weber: Right move
Fire Coach Zook: Right move
Fire Coach Law: Right move
Hire Coach Groce: Looks good so far
Hire Coach Beckman: Doesn't look good so far
Hire Coach Bollant: Looks good so far

At worst, he's 5 for 6 in key coaching moves.  Light years better than his predecessor

I do not dispute that rg was a disaster.

UofIL25 wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: - a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

Fire Coach Weber: Right move
Fire Coach Zook: Right move
Fire Coach Law: Right move
Hire Coach Groce: Looks good so far
Hire Coach Beckman: Doesn't look good so far
Hire Coach Bollant: Looks good so far

At worst, he's 5 for 6 in key coaching moves.  Light years better than his predecessor

He's far less toxic than Beckman at this moment and if he wanted to be coaching right now he would be ...

---------------------------------------------
--- UofIL25 wrote:

Did an AD give Zook a shot yet or is he still not coaching college football?  Somebody with his coaching acumen isn't still toxic, right?

---------------------------------------------

Not at the college or pro level.  Perhaps there's a Pop Warner team that needs a coach who doesn't know the score of the games

Illinibat wrote:
He's far less toxic than Beckman at this moment and if he wanted to be coaching right now he would be ...

---------------------------------------------
--- UofIL25 wrote:

Did an AD give Zook a shot yet or is he still not coaching college football?  Somebody with his coaching acumen isn't still toxic, right?

---------------------------------------------

Mike Thomas is a good AD, IMO. Most importantly, he's an ambitious guy with big goals, which was RG's biggest problem.

Now I know for certain that you have no idea what you are talking about. 

UofIL25 wrote: Not at the college or pro level.  Perhaps there's a Pop Warner team that needs a coach who doesn't know the score of the games

Illinibat wrote:
He's far less toxic than Beckman at this moment and if he wanted to be coaching right now he would be ...

---------------------------------------------
--- UofIL25 wrote:

Did an AD give Zook a shot yet or is he still not coaching college football?  Somebody with his coaching acumen isn't still toxic, right?

---------------------------------------------

Illinibat wrote:

UofIL25 wrote:

 

Comparable??  Interesting

Players who were on the 2 bowl teams that weren't on Beckman's team:
Allen (NFL draft pick), Bussey (NFL), Cornell (Starter), Dimke (S), Henry (S), Hunt (S), Jenkins (NFL), LeShoure (NFL), Liuget (NFL), Mercilus (NFL), Thomas (S), Martez (NFL), Tavon (NFL),

Freshman impact contributors that Zook left Beckman:
Null set

So, Zook eeked in (thanks to an '07 NCAA rules adjustment) to 2 bowl games, and left that   "talent" to Beckman minus 11-12 of the biggest contributors on the team (8 of which were NFL draft picks) and left him 3 consecutive poor recruiting classes

That roster is "comparable" only to the incredibly uneducated

None of the players you listed were freshman impact contributors.  So, your entire post is a logical fallacy.

And, as has been proven ad nauseum, we had at least enough talent such that the pre-season (and independent) universal consensus expected us to win at least 7 games this past year. 

Therefore, you have no legitimate argument.  All you've got is hindsight and your desperate searching for a scapegoat to deflect blame off the guy who embarrassed the university by general overall failure, the dipping fiasco, falling down on the sidelines, and screaming about lasagna.

Well, there was also consensus that we were a bowl team in 2008 and 2009 seasons. We failed to even be bowl eligible with an immense "talent" advantage over much weaker teams. So this being used as major indictment over Beckman is a bit unfair, particularly when Zook had an even stronger roster and failed miserably, sending our program into a tail spin.

BTW, Thomas was not yet AD in those years, so any administration problems came from the guy who advocated for him. For all of Beckman's silliness this past season, I don't think there is much that will match Zook forgetting the score of a football game he was, umm, "coaching". 

With Beckman's recruiting prowess (big credit Golesh and co too), I think he can improve the roster greatly for us the next two years, even with less than stellar field results. Should be able to hand the next guy a much better roster than he was left in terms of talent and depth in multiple classes. He has to make hay in 2014, and if he doesn't, he may get the pink slip a lot sooner (assuming he has a terrible season).

Both BB hires look good. Maybe the football hire will turn around. Doubtful, but 2/3 okayand a chance for a do over in football next year.

The legend of Ron Zook and his 18 B10 win career grows in legend by people like bat.  2 conference wins in his last season, and you'd swear we got rid of Nick Saban.  As been said 1000 times,  firing Zook was definately the right move.  Anybody that can argue that the Zook era was on its way up is a complete clown.  The Beckman hire is a completely separate issue.  Only on the Illinois scout  board will people rave about a coach that almost lost twice as many B10 games as he won.  Zook's done, get over it.  It has nothing to do with Beckman. 

Illinibat wrote: I love how Jack Cornell has become an all-star in retrospect on this board, rather than the guy who split time with various guys like Tyler Sands.

I love how Nate Bussey and Trulon Henry too have become irreplaceable in retrospect ... when both were minor contributors until their senior year ...

Zook never had problems replacing guys ... from Derek Walker, going to Will Davis, going to Jerry Brown, going to Clay Nurse, going to Whitney Mercilus ... we never had a problem

Buchanan, Staples and Denmark were ready to step right in and would have ...

The team won 7 games, lost Liuget, LeShoure and Martez Wilson, and they won 7 games the next year ...

We might as well rename the Beckman era, the 'blame Zook' era ...

chitownUofI05 wrote: Mike Thomas is a good AD, IMO. Most importantly, he's an ambitious guy with big goals, which was RG's biggest problem.

If he (Thomas) is really ambitious it will be interesting to see how long he hangs on to a guy who can't walk the sideline without embarrassing himself and the program of which he supervises.  Let's hope we see a NEW side of Beckman this coming season. So far, it has been about as unimpressive as it gets. Thank God we have two competent BB coaches.