1. Agreed about Thomas. 
2. Agreed about Beckman hire, but hoping he proves me wrong. 
3. Disagree about Groce hire, but hoping he proves me right.

Beast = Ignore this Member

TheBeastisback wrote: - a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

Great original thought. This hasn't been discussed on here ad nauseum.

Hair.  You may be 100% correct, but I just don't believe such final and sweeping judgments of MT or TB can be made this early in their careers here.

RG kept a balanced budget and did a fairly good job raising money.  He had good relations with a lot of boosters because he had a long history here and is a good person.  BUT, our facilities have always lagged somewhat, our marketing was terrible, having Illini broadcasts on WIND in Chicago is horrible and most spectacularly, none of his football hires (or in Tepper's case extension) worked out.

MT is shaking things up.  The Chicago broadcast rights are up and MT is reviewing our options.  Let's see what he does here before we condemn him.

MT is pushing forward with the Assembly Hall renovation.  Again, let's see how this turns out before we judge him.

Marketing.  In addition to the Chicago broadcast rights, the new scoreboard, new slogan, he is pursuing an entire re-branding of Illinois athletics - something not done since Neale Stoner introduced the Chief symbol.  He's also placed renewed emphasis on our relationship and presence in Chicago.

Coaching hires.  Each took over a disaster or near disaster.  We can't judge the coaches until they are given a few years to see what they can do.  And as for Zook's bowl teams, they were on a 6 game losing streak 2011 and heading downwards.  I think we were led to believe the team was better than it was due to back to back bowl games, but when you look at the utter lack of depth on this team, we were lucky to have slipped into a bowl game in 2011 before the personnel bottom fell out.

In some respects, due to RG's benign neglect the last portion of his AD tenure and due to his hanging on to poor coaches way too long, Illinois atheltics had to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.

In my crazy way, I think we should support MT and coaches in this effort in the silly belief that my initial (and emotional) reaction to a 2-10 season just may be wrong.

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Are you freakin serious? You think any coach is gonna to accept those terms??

a mil would be double what anyone else would pay him.

jacktotherack wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Are you freakin serious? You think any coach is gonna to accept those terms??

take a number. It's a long line.

IlliniLandShark wrote: Beast = Ignore this Member

TheBeastisback wrote: a mil would be double what anyone else would pay him.

jacktotherack wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Are you freakin serious? You think any coach is gonna to accept those terms??

The interim tag is almost as insulting going into a whole new season as the offer he got, Beast. You either make him HC after the bowl game or you don't.

BleedingOandB wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: a mil would be double what anyone else would pay him.

jacktotherack wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Are you freakin serious? You think any coach is gonna to accept those terms??

The interim tag is almost as insulting going into a whole new season as the offer he got, Beast. You either make him HC after the bowl game or you don't.

Sounds to me like Beast is out of his league here....

Beast,

Drinking and posting is dangerous.

TheBeastisback wrote: - a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

- a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

---------------------------------------------
Wow, another negative thought from the weasel guy. I'm not a Beckman fan but I am a huge fan of Groce.

today was a great day. Let's hope it's a trend.

PaytonP wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

- a MISERABLE FB hire because he (MT) couldn't get ANY successful high major coach to work for him.

- a substandard BB hire, again because noe of his top targets would accept the dough because they didn't want to work with him.

He's better hope that Beckman and Groce figure things out, If they don't, he should be fired for the extremely sucky results of hjis poorly planned poorly executed searches.

Fire Mike Thomas.

---------------------------------------------
Wow, another negative thought from the weasel guy. I'm not a Beckman fan but I am a huge fan of Groce.

Aside from Stoner who had begun to raise some serious funds, RG secured more money for facilities and scholarships than all his predecessors combined, but, as you say, there's still plenty to be done after decades of neglect.

Hogan brought in MT to clean house, make the trains run on time.  He can be bristly and isn't much of a schmoozer.  He didn't handle the sacking of the coaches smoothly, but those transitions weren't going to be easy or pleasing.  And he wasn't known for bringing in a lot of dough at Cincy.  On the other hand, he is a hard-charging organizer.  It remains to be seen if he has a vision for the Illini athletic department, and can implement it.

He's hired a bunch of seemingly talented people to perform in roles where he's weak.

All our eggs are in the MT basket, so cross your fingers and say your prayers that he and his hand-picked team succeed over time.

BZuppke wrote: Hair.  You may be 100% correct, but I just don't believe such final and sweeping judgments of MT or TB can be made this early in their careers here.

RG kept a balanced budget and did a fairly good job raising money.  He had good relations with a lot of boosters because he had a long history here and is a good person.  BUT, our facilities have always lagged somewhat, our marketing was terrible, having Illini broadcasts on WIND in Chicago is horrible and most spectacularly, none of his football hires (or in Tepper's case extension) worked out.

MT is shaking things up.  The Chicago broadcast rights are up and MT is reviewing our options.  Let's see what he does here before we condemn him.

MT is pushing forward with the Assembly Hall renovation.  Again, let's see how this turns out before we judge him.

Marketing.  In addition to the Chicago broadcast rights, the new scoreboard, new slogan, he is pursuing an entire re-branding of Illinois athletics - something not done since Neale Stoner introduced the Chief symbol.  He's also placed renewed emphasis on our relationship and presence in Chicago.

Coaching hires.  Each took over a disaster or near disaster.  We can't judge the coaches until they are given a few years to see what they can do.  And as for Zook's bowl teams, they were on a 6 game losing streak 2011 and heading downwards.  I think we were led to believe the team was better than it was due to back to back bowl games, but when you look at the utter lack of depth on this team, we were lucky to have slipped into a bowl game in 2011 before the personnel bottom fell out.

In some respects, due to RG's benign neglect the last portion of his AD tenure and due to his hanging on to poor coaches way too long, Illinois atheltics had to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.

In my crazy way, I think we should support MT and coaches in this effort in the silly belief that my initial (and emotional) reaction to a 2-10 season just may be wrong.

We went back and forth on this in PM's and Beast insisted that giving Vic an interim tag was the right option.

The guy's hopeless and has absolutely zero knowledge about college athletics.

It's a useless task in trying to inject logic because he will never understand it.

STLINI wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Yeah, because giving a head coach an interim tag is really going to help him build relationships with recruits.  So basically, your saying that if it didn't work, you not only screw recruiting for the season Vic is here, but then you also screw the next season when you hire a new coach and give him limited time to build a class.  That sounds like a great way to build a football program.  I'm sure a great OC would love to jump at that job too, when he would basically have a 1 year of security. 

And of course, Vic did have a great track record as a head coach so that makes great sense too.  3 years at Wyoming, 5-29.  3 years prior to him at Wyoming, 22-13.  3 years after him at Wyoming, 15-20.  Yeah, seems like a great head coaching candidate.

Maybe the single best post I have ever seen on this board.  Fantastically well done.

BZuppke wrote: Hair.  You may be 100% correct, but I just don't believe such final and sweeping judgments of MT or TB can be made this early in their careers here.

RG kept a balanced budget and did a fairly good job raising money.  He had good relations with a lot of boosters because he had a long history here and is a good person.  BUT, our facilities have always lagged somewhat, our marketing was terrible, having Illini broadcasts on WIND in Chicago is horrible and most spectacularly, none of his football hires (or in Tepper's case extension) worked out.

MT is shaking things up.  The Chicago broadcast rights are up and MT is reviewing our options.  Let's see what he does here before we condemn him.

MT is pushing forward with the Assembly Hall renovation.  Again, let's see how this turns out before we judge him.

Marketing.  In addition to the Chicago broadcast rights, the new scoreboard, new slogan, he is pursuing an entire re-branding of Illinois athletics - something not done since Neale Stoner introduced the Chief symbol.  He's also placed renewed emphasis on our relationship and presence in Chicago.

Coaching hires.  Each took over a disaster or near disaster.  We can't judge the coaches until they are given a few years to see what they can do.  And as for Zook's bowl teams, they were on a 6 game losing streak 2011 and heading downwards.  I think we were led to believe the team was better than it was due to back to back bowl games, but when you look at the utter lack of depth on this team, we were lucky to have slipped into a bowl game in 2011 before the personnel bottom fell out.

In some respects, due to RG's benign neglect the last portion of his AD tenure and due to his hanging on to poor coaches way too long, Illinois atheltics had to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.

In my crazy way, I think we should support MT and coaches in this effort in the silly belief that my initial (and emotional) reaction to a 2-10 season just may be wrong.

Your guy Beckman had an 0-fer in conference and yet you insist he was a good choice. How can you deny that Vic would have done better than your guy Beckman? What part of 0-fer do you not understand? You'd better hope he can accomplish something this year. Your guy Beckman is on track to be worse than MOELLER 

ed: the other option would have been retaining Vic as DC. He just might have taken it, and we would have been better with a DC who was not out of his league, like Banks. 

ahsftbll32 wrote: We went back and forth on this in PM's and Beast insisted that giving Vic an interim tag was the right option.

The guy's hopeless and has absolutely zero knowledge about college athletics.

It's a useless task in trying to inject logic because he will never understand it.

STLINI wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: I would have given Vic a mil, told him to find a competent OC, give him an interim tag and tell him it would come off immediately with a 6 figure bump if he won 4 conference games.

Yeah, because giving a head coach an interim tag is really going to help him build relationships with recruits.  So basically, your saying that if it didn't work, you not only screw recruiting for the season Vic is here, but then you also screw the next season when you hire a new coach and give him limited time to build a class.  That sounds like a great way to build a football program.  I'm sure a great OC would love to jump at that job too, when he would basically have a 1 year of security. 

And of course, Vic did have a great track record as a head coach so that makes great sense too.  3 years at Wyoming, 5-29.  3 years prior to him at Wyoming, 22-13.  3 years after him at Wyoming, 15-20.  Yeah, seems like a great head coaching candidate.

Beckman is very suspect as a FB coach.  His record as a defensive coach is mediocre at best.  His head coaching record is also suspect because it appears that his assistants were the foundation.  He put together a poor staff his first year at IL.  There is nothing that suggests he has the background to be a first rate BCS coach capable of winning big time. He will have a chance to show he can win at Illinois.  He at least has put together a decent class this year and also is solving some of the staff problems from last year whether it is his decision of MT behind the scenes.  Beckman will have his chance to show he can do the job.  Let's keep our fingers crossed that he does.

Groce looks like a good hire. Beckman not so much.

I was hoping for an offensive coach with a pass first offense.

We do have to keep in mind their were not a lot of options out there when we were hiring.



Any coaches like Mackovic available.  former NFL coach sitting on sidelines hoping to get back into coaching?

Maybe a coach like coach White with a bit of NCAA issues? The only one that comes to mind is OSU's former coach.

We've got to cut Beckman some slack in his first season.  By extension, we need to do the same for Thomas.

Beast, on the other hand, has been posting for many seasons, and deserves no slack. 

As fans we judge ADs by the wins and losses in the fball and bball programs.

Reality is way more complex.  they are managing budgets in the millions and the upgrade of facilities that cost millions.  all with government oversight because this is a public institution.  winning at Illinois isn't easy, despite what we want to believe.  trying to judge MT this early in his tenure is foolhardy at best when you cannot quantify the money side of what he has to do as the AD.