me three. He's really trying hard to prop up his guy Beckman. Alas, the scoreboard is not responding.

Stigmata35 wrote: I agree with your assessment of Ash.

---------------------------------------------
--- tmbenne wrote:

I try not to be one of the posters who just take shots at people because I can hide behind a computer, I think its rather cowardly and immature, but you might be the most annoying poster on here. Post some facts instead of just saying others are wrong. Its obvious you dislike the former coach and you think any anti-Beckman posts must be from a pro-Zook poster, but most on here dont need to pick sides.

Whats sad is you are in your 30's and sound like a high school poster. 

ahsftbll32 wrote: You talk about people being "clueless" then post a bunch of bullshit jargin sounding like a moron....well done.

It's also funny how you call people "merrymen" for saying let's wait and see what happens instead of pounding the table calling Beckman a moron.

rats60 wrote:

BigTenPaul wrote:

rats60 wrote: Zook took over a team that had won 4 games the previous 2 seasons. Beckman took over a team that had won 14 games the previous 2 seasons. So, people weren't suprised by Zook only winning 2 games, Beckman going 2-10 was a shock.

There was also optimism about recruiting with Zook bringing in the #4 class in the B1G with 6 4 star recruits and 1 top 100 player. Beckman has a worse class with guys decommitting left and right.

There is no question Beckman did a horrible job of coaching last year. And I agree that it was no shock that Zook did poorly in year 1 and it was shocking for Beckman. However, in hindsight, Beckman had much less to work with than our rose colored glasses thought coming into the season. A very mediocre, borderline bowl team that loses multiple playmakers and replaces them with young, inexperienced, poorly rated recruits is no longer a bowl team. Add in a TON of injuries to the returning starters and their backups, and you have a disaster on your hands. Beckman did about as bad of a job handling that as possible, but maybe it shouldn't have been such a shock that we did so poorly. Of course, you and others are so biased against Beckman that you would never concede an inch to admit that last year's team likely wouldn't have been bowling under most coaches.

And as far as recruiting goes, the bias continues. The 2013 class is plenty good to be optimistic. It's just those of you who are on an anti-Beckman campaign that can't allow yourselves to appreciate the players coming in. There are 7 guys in this class that are rated as borderline 3/4 star or better. That's equivalent to guys like Mikel, AJ Jenkins, Foster, Jon Davis, O'Toole, Millines, etc. But again, since you don't like Beckman, let's just cut the data how we want, point out the lack of 4 stars and assume that all the players are MAC-caliber players.

You are truely clueless just like STLINI and ahsftbll32. Do you really think that we should be optimistic about Beckman like we were about Zook? Beckman did a horrible job of coaching last year, who said that? Anyone who was on this board in 2005 knows that it was a much more positive place than now. That's the facts. Sorry if the Beckman merrymen can't handle the truth.

As far as anti-Beckman, no it's reality. We all want Illinois to win. We know Beckman is the coach next year and we'll just have to wait and see what happens, but it is hard to be optimistic when there is so little positive going on in the program. Recruiting was the one bright spot, but it has been dimmed by all the decommits. I'm sorry if you guys are so disconnected from reality that you can't see this.

---------------------------------------------

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

not tracking...

iluvrt wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

as in "the Grocely incompetent MT" i.e. he hired Groce too.  If you are still not tracking, it is too much of a reach on my part.

well, I wasn't trying for a pun. But, yeah, Groce isn't looking like a great hire. Better than Beckman, maybe, but not great.

iluvrt wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

as in "the Grocely incompetent MT" i.e. he hired Groce too.  If you are still not tracking, it is too much of a reach on my part.

TheBeastisback wrote: well, I wasn't trying for a pun. But, yeah, Groce isn't looking like a great hire. Better than Beckman, maybe, but not great.

 

Really?  It's a bit early to say the Groce hire was a failure.  The vibes around the football and basketball program are like night and day.  There is a dark pall over the FB program.

Whereas there is great optimism and enthusiasm around the basketball program...especially now that they had two more marquee wins with wins over #1 IU and #18 Minny. And his first class looks pretty good as well.

Whether or not he's a great hire won't be known for another 2-3 years but so far he's been solid taking the refuse of Weber ball's dysfunctional and disjointed roster and making them into a dangerous and fun to watch team.

TB?  It has gone bad since his presser.  Few have optimism with him in charge. Would love to be wrong but I've seen enough.

He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

SCOREBOARD. 

You don't like what I post? Tough.

felix7 wrote:

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

It's not a matter of liking it or not, or disagreeing with it or not. It is a matter of it's boring, whiny, futile, juvenile and repetitive nature.

TheBeastisback wrote: SCOREBOARD. 

You don't like what I post? Tough.

felix7 wrote:

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

Thomas is one hell of a wheeler dealer. I thought this was interesting.

If you look at what it cost each school in HC comp for each of their wins 7 of the 10 schools with returing coaches are within 60 to 70k of the median. There are 3 outliers. NU is getting a tremendous bargin with Fitz, kudos to Jim Phillips and our boy MT and the Iowa AD are idiots. Thomas should go to Beckman and seek to restructure his contract over the summer. He should tell Beckman, I will give you a firm 2 year commit, and since you think you are Urban Meyer I will give you the same per win rate he gets of 358k. Beckman's tipping point is 5 wins. Anything over 5 is a windfall for him, anything under 5  he takes a pay cut. He breaks even with 10 wins over 5 years over the life of the contract. If he balks, I fire him pay his buyout and elevate Cubuit as HC for 2013

Pay for perfomance Timmy, something Thomas and Beckman know very little about:


My guess is Mike thomas thought we were going to get 6 wins in 2012 and structured accordingly


     

School

Wins

HC Comp

Cost per Win

1	Iowa	4	3900000	$     975,000
2	Illinois	2	1750000	$     875,000
3	OSU	12	4300000	$     358,333
4	IU	4	1300000	$     325,000
5	Mich	11	3200000	$     290,909
6	Neb	10	2900000	$     290,000
7	Penn St	8	2300000	$     287,500
8	Mich St	7	2000000	$     285,714
9	Minnesota	6	1300000	$     216,667
10	NU	10	1300000	$     130,000

felix7 wrote:

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

</blockquote

It would be great if all sports were pay for performance based. The reality is that many aren't.

The scoreboard is irrelevant to the fact that your post useless jibberish.  Such as stating Thomas failed with his hiring of Groce.  Were you expecting to make the NCAA tournament this year?

TheBeastisback wrote: SCOREBOARD. 

You don't like what I post? Tough.

felix7 wrote:

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

Beckman's legacy? Tis just a vapor.

The princess and the pea... She felt a pea under 14 mattresses. Beckman is that pea.

Even with all the losses last season what I don't get is Beckman's salary.  We could have had Vic as HC for probably much less and he would have been better.  Beckman should be getting 1/2 of his current salary.  Hope at Purdue was paid less than a million with more experience.  Why Thomas ever paid Beckman 4 x his Toledo salary is just gross negligence with regard to financial issues, especially with the DIA not in great shape.

I agree that his contract should have been renegotiated or tell him to take a hike and go elsewhere.  Nobody would pay Beckman that much on the current market based on his POOR performance.

the first is not true. AQs for the second, I said the Groce hire was not looking good after we lost a bunch of conference games at home. He seems better now. And yes, I thought we had the talent to get to the Tourney with competent coaching.

But this thread is about Thomas and how he whiffed on his top choices and the second tier, like Jones and Fedors, didn't want to work with him either.

The scoreboard says TB is out of his league. Any objective evaluation of the FB hiring process shows that MT miscalculated his ability to attract an experienced high major coach.

ahsftbll32 wrote: The scoreboard is irrelevant to the fact that your post useless jibberish.  Such as stating Thomas failed with his hiring of Groce.  Were you expecting to make the NCAA tournament this year?

TheBeastisback wrote: SCOREBOARD. 

You don't like what I post? Tough.

felix7 wrote:

Great, two more repetitive whiny posters about Beckman.

Get a life guys. Disappear until Beckman is gone because it's obvious you don't want him here. We get it.

Many folks, like me, are tired of every thread being filled with your garbage and hyperbole. Dogging the coach, like you folks do, at this point, does nothing at all. He is the coach until he isn't the coach, and that is MT's decision and MT isn't going anywhere. His job is not at stake just because you say it is. You guys didn't hire either of them and you can't fire either of them. You can only whine like babies on a sports blog and pound the table hoping you have some sort of say in what's going to happen.

CaliLama wrote:
He won't get three years...produce next year or bye bye..MTs job at stake..you are wrong about Groce..good enough to buy MT enough time to find a new football coach if Beck crashes and burns again but he won't wait three years without improvement
---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

---------------------------------------------

Good call on Groce. I suspect you're now singing a different tune, but will continue to change tunes with the wind.

You are out of your league when it comes to evaluating coaching.


---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

well, I wasn't trying for a pun. But, yeah, Groce isn't looking like a great hire. Better than Beckman, maybe, but not great.

iluvrt wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

as in "the Grocely incompetent MT" i.e. he hired Groce too.  If you are still not tracking, it is too much of a reach on my part.

---------------------------------------------

I am honestly happy that he turned it around, but he's got to make the Tourney to prove I was wrong. I was right about bubble bruce. My opinion of Beckman seems pretty solid, too. And Guenther. And Legion. and many others. 

And you are a weasel.

703Illini wrote: Good call on Groce. I suspect you're now singing a different tune, but will continue to change tunes with the wind.

You are out of your league when it comes to evaluating coaching.


---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

well, I wasn't trying for a pun. But, yeah, Groce isn't looking like a great hire. Better than Beckman, maybe, but not great.

iluvrt wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

as in "the Grocely incompetent MT" i.e. he hired Groce too.  If you are still not tracking, it is too much of a reach on my part.

---------------------------------------------

And when he makes the tourney, I assume you'll come here and proclaim to everybody that you jumped ship when things got bad, called Groce "out of his league", insulted the seniors without end, and basically gave up prematurely?

I agree with you on Beckman. He's not going to win here. But I think it's beyond absurd to be throwing Groce into the same conversation as Beckman.

---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

I am honestly happy that he turned it around, but he's got to make the Tourney to prove I was wrong. I was right about bubble bruce. My opinion of Beckman seems pretty solid, too. And Guenther. And Legion. and many others. 

And you are a weasel.

703Illini wrote: Good call on Groce. I suspect you're now singing a different tune, but will continue to change tunes with the wind.

You are out of your league when it comes to evaluating coaching.


---------------------------------------------
--- TheBeastisback wrote:

well, I wasn't trying for a pun. But, yeah, Groce isn't looking like a great hire. Better than Beckman, maybe, but not great.

iluvrt wrote:

iluvrt wrote:

TheBeastisback wrote: beckman's legacy? The suckiest coach we have had since Moeller. The only reason why he'll get 3 years here is because MT will get fired after year 2. I sure don't want the grossly incompetent MT to hire another major coach.

When you state "grossly incompetent", were you getting a subconscious dig at the Grocery Man?

as in "the Grocely incompetent MT" i.e. he hired Groce too.  If you are still not tracking, it is too much of a reach on my part.

---------------------------------------------

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