chilihorn11 wrote: The question is what does ESPN get out of this?

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

MegaPack wrote: It's pretty heavily backloaded. Maryland said they were getting something like $13.5MM from the TV contract when they left (I don't have the link handy).

Here is the NC State associate athletics director sayig the first year on the contract paid $12.3MM:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2012/05/s ome-insight-into-the-accs-new-tv-deal.html?page=al l

Link with FSU receiving $16.9MM from the ACC last year including bowl money, CCG money, NCAA tourney money, etc:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-14/spo rts/os-florida-state-acc-tv-deal-0613-20120614_1_f su-acc-budget-deficit

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

indyrckstar wrote: We should really make a post on money differences with ACC vs Big 12 so we don't have to always rehash this.

indyrckstar wrote:

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

The difference would be how we handle our Tier 3s and the Champ Bowl tie in.  For example, if WVU was in the ACC right now, we would make about 8 million less as our Tier 3 from previous vs what we just signed for is roughly 6 million and the Champs Bowl pays out 2 million more per average than the Orange Bowl in terms of base pay.

With that said, I don't see any ACC teams leaving.  Some of those schools are either really in love with what they have going on or not having ideal situations to leave and be left on island or doesn't have an invite in the first place.

MegaPack wrote: It's pretty heavily backloaded. Maryland said they were getting something like $13.5MM from the TV contract when they left (I don't have the link handy).

Here is the NC State associate athletics director sayig the first year on the contract paid $12.3MM:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2012/05/s ome-insight-into-the-accs-new-tv-deal.html?page=al l

Link with FSU receiving $16.9MM from the ACC last year including bowl money, CCG money, NCAA tourney money, etc:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-14/spo rts/os-florida-state-acc-tv-deal-0613-20120614_1_f su-acc-budget-deficit

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

yallreadyforthis wrote: This is still under the old deal.  ACC wasn't scheduled to get 17 mil until Pitt and Syr joined which hasn't happened yet.  19 mil won't show up until the following year when Lou and ND join.

MegaPack wrote: It's pretty heavily backloaded. Maryland said they were getting something like $13.5MM from the TV contract when they left (I don't have the link handy).

Here is the NC State associate athletics director sayig the first year on the contract paid $12.3MM:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2012/05/s ome-insight-into-the-accs-new-tv-deal.html?page=al l

Link with FSU receiving $16.9MM from the ACC last year including bowl money, CCG money, NCAA tourney money, etc:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-14/spo rts/os-florida-state-acc-tv-deal-0613-20120614_1_f su-acc-budget-deficit

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

chilihorn11 wrote: The question is what does ESPN get out of this?

chilihorn11 wrote: The question is what does ESPN get out of this?

rboggs1 wrote:

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

Guess I'll pile on as well. $19 million is what we all expected the ACC would get from ND, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking the ACC is only going to be $1 million behind the Big 12 in revenue.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 TV is just the tip of the iceberg. Tier 3 TV, Sugar Bowl money, and better bowl tie-ins will keep the Big 12's cash flow well above anything the ACC can offer. But, as indy said, money isn't going to be enough to shake more ACC teams away. I still think they'll leave eventually, but it's probably going to take a long time for that to happen just as it took a long time to kill the Big East.

geauxnoles wrote:

indyrckstar wrote:

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

The difference would be how we handle our Tier 3s and the Champ Bowl tie in.  For example, if WVU was in the ACC right now, we would make about 8 million less as our Tier 3 from previous vs what we just signed for is roughly 6 million and the Champs Bowl pays out 2 million more per average than the Orange Bowl in terms of base pay.

With that said, I don't see any ACC teams leaving.  Some of those schools are either really in love with what they have going on or not having ideal situations to leave and be left on island or doesn't have an invite in the first place.

Tier 3 is so convoluted and includes so much more than one or two football games per year. It includes coaches shows, radio rights, license and some merchandising rights. 
 
For example FSU is earning 6-7 million so it is not as much as UT but about the same as WVU if WVU's is 6  million.

The Orange Bowl is not a 50 -50 split in fact other than dividing the income between 14 teams versus 10 the income from the Orange Bowl and the Champs bowl is equal. Also every three years the ACC will receive revenue from the Orange Bowl game when it is included in the playoff rotation because they "own" the Orange Bowl game. (Which is why the uneven split, the ACC takes a licensing fee then divides the balance)

The scheduling alliance involves several conferences including the ACC, SEC and Big 12

I agree Indy I do not think that anyone is leaving soon other than GT or UVA and I am not so sure that either of those programs wants to become the bottom feeder in the B1G. MD was bankrupt and had no choice but to consider every option to improving their revenue. GT and UVA are not so desperate.

By the way as I have mentioned I am no longer with the ACC but I did speak to someone who still works there and the rumor is that in addition to the scheduling alliance there are other moves being discussed to derail the B1G and its potential growth.

ACK4WVU wrote: Well, the conversation is not going to be about what the difference is with the Big 12 and ACC, its what the difference will be in the B1G and the SEC versus the ACC my friend, and once that gets all done (and probably before) some ACC teams will move so they don't lose their seat at the big money table.

Those that do not think that the teams mentioned will not move are just kidding themselves, because now ESPN can say, hey, we tried, but actually keep the same content for far less money as teams slowly move from th ACC to the B1G, SEC and Big 12.

That is just how it is gonna be, UNLESS, you ACC members are willing to sign a long term GoR. Also, you would have to be willing to buy back some Tier 2 and Tier 3 content from ESPN (cause ESPN does not want a competing network with the SEC in the SE) and let the FOX in the Hen House to start the ACC network, which would not really compete too much with the B1G, but still.................even that may not happen nor help as ESPN wouldprobably vastly reduce your current $19M to give you back those rights and so why would they since they already have the content tied up as part of the $19M?

Sorry, but the ACC is Facked!!!!!!!!

rboggs1 wrote:

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

Guess I'll pile on as well. $19 million is what we all expected the ACC would get from ND, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking the ACC is only going to be $1 million behind the Big 12 in revenue.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 TV is just the tip of the iceberg. Tier 3 TV, Sugar Bowl money, and better bowl tie-ins will keep the Big 12's cash flow well above anything the ACC can offer. But, as indy said, money isn't going to be enough to shake more ACC teams away. I still think they'll leave eventually, but it's probably going to take a long time for that to happen just as it took a long time to kill the Big East.

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

BenDNole wrote: Yep, it's not about what the ACC makes compare to the Big12.  The Big12 being able to convince ACC teams to head west is not an option any more.  The B1G will have to do the dirty work, and I think it's all about how determined they are to expand.

If they can't get UVa/UNC, will they want to expand enough to consider FSU?  That's all I'm worried about.  If the B1G gets any more teams, I think it's a free-for-all.

ACK4WVU wrote: Well, the conversation is not going to be about what the difference is with the Big 12 and ACC, its what the difference will be in the B1G and the SEC versus the ACC my friend, and once that gets all done (and probably before) some ACC teams will move so they don't lose their seat at the big money table.

Those that do not think that the teams mentioned will not move are just kidding themselves, because now ESPN can say, hey, we tried, but actually keep the same content for far less money as teams slowly move from th ACC to the B1G, SEC and Big 12.

That is just how it is gonna be, UNLESS, you ACC members are willing to sign a long term GoR. Also, you would have to be willing to buy back some Tier 2 and Tier 3 content from ESPN (cause ESPN does not want a competing network with the SEC in the SE) and let the FOX in the Hen House to start the ACC network, which would not really compete too much with the B1G, but still.................even that may not happen nor help as ESPN wouldprobably vastly reduce your current $19M to give you back those rights and so why would they since they already have the content tied up as part of the $19M?

Sorry, but the ACC is Facked!!!!!!!!

rboggs1 wrote:

geauxnoles wrote:

ppk700 wrote: I feel like a lot of folks on here believed it'd be about $19 million, so I'm not surprised either. Won't be enough to save the conference though.

I am curious why the Big 12 is secure because they receive 20 million per team, yet the ACC is dying at 19 million??

Guess I'll pile on as well. $19 million is what we all expected the ACC would get from ND, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking the ACC is only going to be $1 million behind the Big 12 in revenue.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 TV is just the tip of the iceberg. Tier 3 TV, Sugar Bowl money, and better bowl tie-ins will keep the Big 12's cash flow well above anything the ACC can offer. But, as indy said, money isn't going to be enough to shake more ACC teams away. I still think they'll leave eventually, but it's probably going to take a long time for that to happen just as it took a long time to kill the Big East.

Hurtlocker wrote:

BenDNole wrote:

MySources wrote: Well, their current contract is an "average of $17m/year/team," so I take it this will bump them up to $19m? If so, the contract is still heavily backloaded to make it seem higher than it really is, and the ACC will continue to be paid pennies relative to other conferences. Yes, their pay will go up in several years, but by then so too will the pay of the other conferences. They've successfully positioned themselves as a distant #4.

I know that everyone says it's backloaded.  Do we have any evidence of that? 

And I'm not saying it isn't backloaded, but do we know the exact payouts per year, compared with the other conferences?

Backloaded is a bad way of saying it, but what its doing is increasing per year on a set schedule so that the value in the contract stays the same to account for inflation.  It will go up around 3% a year, give or take, LHN is listed at 3.95% in their contract if I remember right.  So let's say the ACC has the same number and go with 4%.  On a 15 year/$240M contract (I'm adding the ND bump in right now by adding $2M to the average, but dividing it by 14 because their split makes the math harder for a board post, the numbers will be inflated a bit), that means the ACC will hit $19M somewhere around the 7 year mark:

2013 = $15.0M
2014 = $15.6M
2015 = $16.2M
2016 = $16.9M < B1G Negotiation>
2017 = $17.6M  
2018 = $18.3M
2019 = $19.1M
2020 = $19.8M
2021 = $18.5M
2022 = $19.2M
2023 = $20.7M < SEC/PAC Negotiation>
2024 = $21.5M < B12 Negotiation>
2025 = $22.3M
2026 = $23.2M
2027 = $24.1M

Now don't take these numbers as anything more than a quick example, but as you can tell the back end of the deal pays significantly more than the front end of the deal.  If someone extends their deal and gets a higher average, this is why.  It its not really giving more value to the deal, its just adding on more years at the end that, when added to the rest of the years, increase the average pay out.  However, for all practical purposes, $24.1M in 2027 is the same value as $15M in 2013 for the same reason your milk or health care costs more every year, inflation.  

So, its not really back loaded, per se, where you're pushing off payments until late, but there is some financial trickery when publicizing average payouts.  All conferences have this, its not just the ACC.  BTN, for example, pays out an average of $112M over 25 years (before expansion), however since the B1G is in the beginning of the contract it is paying out closer to $85M now.  Near the end of the contract it will be paying out around $175M per year (before expansion).

So, when gauging who gets paid what, when, you need to factor in total contract length and a COL of inflationary figure into the mix.  For the ACC, you cannot really compare their average number to the PAC's, for instance, because the PAC has between 4 or 5 less years on their contract and doesn't include the same amount of inventory.  If we did a similar example for the Pac, putting the average at the mid point and adjusting from there, and giving them $5M per year average for the PAC Network, since the ACC deal includes T3, we get:

2012 = $21.0M
2013 = $21.9M
2014 = $22.8M
2015 = $23.7M
2016 = $24.7M
2017 = $25.8M
2018 = $26.8M
2019 = $27.9M
2020 = $29.0M
2021 = $30.1M
2022 = $31.3M
2023 = $32.6M

Now, before you get too worked up about the differences, all I'm doing is putting the reported average in the middle year and doing a basic adjustment front and back to show the difference.  They may turn out very different, for instance the B12 is reportedly paying out $20M this year, which is what they've reported as their average, so there are other factors at play.  However, you can see how just bumping your average up doesn't do much if it is connected to an extension.  In this case you'd think the ACC is pretty close to the PAC, when in fact it may be as much as $10M difference per team per year by the end of the contract.

Great explanation.  I understand a lot of this, but hadn't really thought of all the implications regarding the length of the contract, etc.

Also, do you know if the Big12 $20 million is just the TV payout?