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Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:11 PM
Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I have just finished reading both "The Freeh Report" and "Critique of the Freeh Report: The Rush to Injustice Regarding Joe Paterno". Each report was about 230 pages, but it was fast reading.
I am not a Penn State fan AT ALL, but I have always admired Joe Paterno and how he could be so successful for so long. Yet I was perplexed at how he could reportedly be involved in a conspiracy to conceal a child molestor (Jerry Sandusky).
What I read was both amazing and sad. The Freeh Report (FR) was by all accounts, a failure for which it was conceived. While Louis Freeh is an ex-Director of the FBI, he is not trained to investigate crimes involving child sexual victimization. Investigating a criminal like Sandusky is VERY, VERY much different than a bomber or bank robber. It's all about the context of the situation before, during, and after the crimes are committed.
Two out of the three people who critiqued the FR were EXPERTS in child sexual victimization crimes. They both went on record and said Sandusky was in the top 1% of all "nice guy" child sex offenders they've ever seen in all of their years (a combined 60 expert years in child sexual victimization investigations).
A "nice-guy" child sex (aquaintence) offender is also referred to as a "Piller of the Community" or "Man of the Year" offender. These offenders will "groom" those around them into thinking they are the nicest, most child-loving people on Earth through their actions (like Sandusky's "The Second Mile"). Sandusky not only effectively groomed Joe Paterno, but he also fooled everyone in the Penn State community (including Public Agencies as well as the local Police Department - several times).
After reading all of the expert testimony, I can firmly say that I believe Joe Paterno WILL BE exonerated in the court of public opinion. He was already exonerated by the court of law, unlike the 3 other PSU administrators who were arrested.
This is just a sad, sad situation for all involved...the children who were abused as well as the Paterno family for being stuck with this injustice attached to their name.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of PSU, just a fan of the truth. I would advise all of you to read them yourself and come to your own conclusion, although the conclusion is pretty obvious to me.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:16 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
While I agree with most of what you say, this:
"He was already exonerated by the court of law"
is not true. He was originally praised by the AG and was never charged, but this is pretty different than being exonerated by a court of law.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:19 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
Amazing, isn't it.
Now you see why PSU fans are so up in arms about how the Freeh report was used.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:22 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
PSU2UNC wrote: While I agree with most of what you say, this:
"He was already exonerated by the court of law"
is not true. He was originally praised by the AG and was never charged, but this is pretty different than being exonerated by a court of law. Spanier, Shultz, and Curley were arrested. JP was not. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:24 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote:
Spanier, Shultz, and Curley were arrested. JP was not. You are correct. And again, I feel similarly to what you wrote; I was just clarifying that not being charged is not the same as being exonerated in court (e.g. Spanier was not charged originally, either).
Last edited 3/4/2013 4:36 PM by PSU2UNC
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:26 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
well stated, but you are preaching to the choir. To truly grasp how frustrating this is and has been imagine that saying what you did only lead to people telling you that "you just don't get it", "that you are delusional", "that standing up for Joe means you support molester enablers", and be called all kinds of terrible things for having the nerve to suggest things might not be as the Freeh report claims.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 4:29 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
Que the usual suspects to attempt to completely change his mind and thought process in 3....2.....1.... Fight on State, Fight on!!
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Posted: 3/4/2013 5:49 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks
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Posted: 3/4/2013 6:07 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I agree he's preaching to the choir and needs to start the discussion with his Ohio State fans but I will give him credit that he actually read both reports and could see the gaps (to be kind) in Freeh and the real picture in Clemente. That alone puts him above 99% of the country who refuse to read either report but yet claim to know everything.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 6:10 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
For being a Buckeye fan you have an unusual number of posts about Joe Paterno. All in the last day it appears.
That guy could have played for Penn State back in the 30's.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 6:27 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote: I have just finished reading both "The Freeh Report" and "Critique of the Freeh Report: The Rush to Injustice Regarding Joe Paterno". Each report was about 230 pages, but it was fast reading.
I am not a Penn State fan AT ALL, but I have always admired Joe Paterno and how he could be so successful for so long. Yet I was perplexed at how he could reportedly be involved in a conspiracy to conceal a child molestor (Jerry Sandusky).
What I read was both amazing and sad. The Freeh Report (FR) was by all accounts, a failure for which it was conceived. While Louis Freeh is an ex-Director of the FBI, he is not trained to investigate crimes involving child sexual victimization. Investigating a criminal like Sandusky is VERY, VERY much different than a bomber or bank robber. It's all about the context of the situation before, during, and after the crimes are committed.
Two out of the three people who critiqued the FR were EXPERTS in child sexual victimization crimes. They both went on record and said Sandusky was in the top 1% of all "nice guy" child sex offenders they've ever seen in all of their years (a combined 60 expert years in child sexual victimization investigations).
A "nice-guy" child sex (aquaintence) offender is also referred to as a "Piller of the Community" or "Man of the Year" offender. These offenders will "groom" those around them into thinking they are the nicest, most child-loving people on Earth through their actions (like Sandusky's "The Second Mile"). Sandusky not only effectively groomed Joe Paterno, but he also fooled everyone in the Penn State community (including Public Agencies as well as the local Police Department - several times).
After reading all of the expert testimony, I can firmly say that I believe Joe Paterno WILL BE exonerated in the court of public opinion. He was already exonerated by the court of law, unlike the 3 other PSU administrators who were arrested.
This is just a sad, sad situation for all involved...the children who were abused as well as the Paterno family for being stuck with this injustice attached to their name.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of PSU, just a fan of the truth. I would advise all of you to read them yourself and come to your own conclusion, although the conclusion is pretty obvious to me. Reading the James Clemente report was the first thing I have read that makes sense of this whole mess. I read it fast and then studied it. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 6:40 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
It is encouraging to know someone outside the PSU community would take the time to examine the relevant documents involved. If you're a completist, you may also be interested in the testimony given and read into record at the preliminary hearing for the trials of Curley and Schultz.
I would disagree with only one point you made. You said the Freeh report was a "failure for which it was conceived.". Many of us remember feeling Freeh was hired by the board to quell the uproar after firing Joe, who, according to the AG, reported what he was told to the appropriate authorities and cooperated fully with the investigation. It appeared to many of us that the board had fired the whistleblower (Joe) and then hired Freeh to find any evidence he could that would pin the responsibilty on the football program only. Remember, the incident involved a university employee, Sandusky--who hadn't been with the football program for years--being reported to university authorities by two coaches (joe and MM) for possible improper activity in a shower with a young boy. What happened after that was out of the football program's hands.
Covering thier ***** by somehow placing the blame back on the football program is what many of us suspected the BOT hired Freeh for in the first place, and in that regard, the report certainly did achieve the purpose for which it was conceived.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 7:04 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
You're absolutely right about context being absolutely king in child sex predator cases such as this, especially with a member of the community that has groomed that entire community for decades.
It's why it is pointless to argue with anyone that doesn't get this simple truth: If you don't understand the context in this case, every conclusion you draw will inevitably be tainted. Every single conclusion. Every parsing of testimony or snippet of email. You can't extract bits and pieces from a literally decades long master grooming process. It might seem to make sense outside of the real world of context, but it's just plain false. Every single time.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 7:06 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions.
Last edited 3/4/2013 7:12 PM by kbuckaro
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Posted: 3/4/2013 7:18 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
--------------------------------------------- --- kbuckaro wrote: nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. --------------------------------------------- Link the Clemente report and challenge them to read it with an open mind. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:09 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. Post what you said at the top of the page on Hineygate and many here will come to your defense. I live in Columbus and have talked to many people here about the situation. I got no where with them until the Clemente report came out. It seems that those that have read it now have a more enlightened view and have softened their stance on Joe's role in the events. Even those that are not convinced have said they think the NCAA went too far in the sanctions.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:13 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
psu00 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions.
---------------------------------------------
Link the Clemente report and challenge them to read it with an open mind. I'm going to IM the most popular insider (since he's giving me the most **** about it) and challenge him to use his influence to raise awareness about scum like Sandusky. But he hasn't even read the reports. UPDATE: HE SAID HE DID READ THEM
Last edited 3/5/2013 11:19 AM by kbuckaro
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:14 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote:
psu00 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions.
---------------------------------------------
Link the Clemente report and challenge them to read it with an open mind. I'm going to IM the most popular insider (since he's giving me the most **** about it) and challenge him to use his influence to raise awareness about scum like Sandusky. But he hasn't even read the reports. Nevada??? |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:14 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
NITTANYRAY wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. Post what you said at the top of the page on Hineygate and many here will come to your defense.
I live in Columbus and have talked to many people here about the situation. I got no where with them until the Clemente report came out. It seems that those that have read it now have a more enlightened view and have softened their stance on Joe's role in the events. Even those that are not convinced have said they think the NCAA went too far in the sanctions. I will. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:18 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote:
NITTANYRAY wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. Post what you said at the top of the page on Hineygate and many here will come to your defense.
I live in Columbus and have talked to many people here about the situation. I got no where with them until the Clemente report came out. It seems that those that have read it now have a more enlightened view and have softened their stance on Joe's role in the events. Even those that are not convinced have said they think the NCAA went too far in the sanctions. I will. We have something in common, getting hammered on the OSU premium board haha.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:23 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I appreciate the fact that the OP took the time to examine the reports and then draw his own conclusions. He didn't buy into the BS being peddled by the MSM for over a year so bravo to him. While I wish more people would do this, I know that they wont. When you don't have anything personally invested in a situation it is much easier to go along with crowd than have to defend the opposition argument. The problem with this type of group think is that these persons often know the least but make the most noise. See Steven A. Hole Smith for example. As for posting on the Buckeye Board good luck with that. There are 3 places that you can't objectively discuss PSU and the Sandusky Scandal. OSU, Pitt, and Rutgers Boards. Its not what they actually believe but instead what they want to believe. In their minds PSU deserves to be punished, and if they can gain personally from this punishment all the better.  "We want the warriors, that's all we want."
Fitz
Last edited 3/4/2013 8:25 PM by Ldandy
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:39 PM
RE: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I agree with the OP, but even if the 4 put their head in the sands and ignored Sandsuky in 2001, blaming them for Sandusky is close to criminal as you get it is doing such a disservice to the victims and future victims. So many people that were suppose to be trained in this type of things missed the signs but for some reason and 75 year old football coach was supposed to stop it all.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:41 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :) Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 8:53 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered. Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett. We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake. *Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:00 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I find it ironic that outsiders love to say its 'all about the kids' yet they completely ignore (and won't even read) the Clemente report because their hate of Penn State/ Paterno is more important to them and more of a driving force than the actual safety of kids. The Clemente report should be required reading for every teacher/ parent- it was just a flat out outstanding report by an FBI agent with over 30 years of experience investigating and prosecuting child sex crimes. It explained how these perps operate and get away with their actions for so long. And guess what- these guys exist in Columbus, Iowa City, and Ann Arbor too. I don't care if they still hate PSU- they need to read this report anyway and understand how this happens for the kids in their community.
Last edited 3/4/2013 9:10 PM by psu00
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:06 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
Looked at Hineygate for first time in awhile. The post on the Paterno Report, with 1500 replies and and only 5500 views is just a few posters going back and forth and not alot of interest from the majority of the Hineygate board.
Some of the OSU posters on that thread would fit right in on the Pitt boards.
Last edited 3/4/2013 9:08 PM by MarylandLion
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:26 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
psu00 wrote: I find it ironic that outsiders love to say its 'all about the kids' yet they completely ignore (and won't even read) the Clemente report because their hate of Penn State/ Paterno is more important to them and more of a driving force than the actual safety of kids. The Clemente report should be required reading for every teacher/ parent- it was just a flat out outstanding report by an FBI agent with over 30 years of experience investigating and prosecuting child sex crimes. It explained how these perps operate and get away with their actions for so long. And guess what- these guys exist in Columbus, Iowa City, and Ann Arbor too. I don't care if they still hate PSU- they need to read this report anyway and understand how this happens for the kids in their community. Those outsiders don't really care or are too lazy to read. That is really what it comes down to.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:30 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett.
We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake.
*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light. That's complete nonsense. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:35 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
--------------------------------------------- --- roncampb wrote: psu00 wrote: I find it ironic that outsiders love to say its 'all about the kids' yet they completely ignore (and won't even read) the Clemente report because their hate of Penn State/ Paterno is more important to them and more of a driving force than the actual safety of kids. The Clemente report should be required reading for every teacher/ parent- it was just a flat out outstanding report by an FBI agent with over 30 years of experience investigating and prosecuting child sex crimes. It explained how these perps operate and get away with their actions for so long. And guess what- these guys exist in Columbus, Iowa City, and Ann Arbor too. I don't care if they still hate PSU- they need to read this report anyway and understand how this happens for the kids in their community. Those outsiders don't really care or are too lazy to read. That is really what it comes down to. --------------------------------------------- I agree and that's where I draw the line. If you haven't read the Clemente report then don't ever tell me its 'about the kids' as some type of insult to PSU. I don't care if you're an Ohio State or Iowa fan or if your a pompous Ed Ray from Oregon State who keeps making references as if Penn Staters don't care or 'get it'. If you can't even bring yourself to read that report then you really don't care about the kids. If you did- you'd be all over that info to protect kids in the future. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 9:42 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
kufta4 wrote:
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett.
We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake.
*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light.
That's complete nonsense. It really is. Anyone who has spent more than a few minutes critically thinking about the events realizes that the idea there was an intentional cover-up is absurd. You simply don't go around notifying people of an event if you're trying to cover it up. It is really a sad indictment of society that Freeh was able to hypothesize such a ridiculous notion and most people bought it. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 10:09 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
...*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light. It's simple. Piece it together. Joe Paterno was and is more valuable to Penn State than Bear Bryant was and is to Alabama. Corbett had the last word to the board before they voted to fire Joe. Later that night, he and his entourage were seen celebrating in downtown State College. After Joe's death, things had quieted down as far as he was concerned. Freeh could have more easily concluded that Joe had no clue, that Spanier was in charge and approved everything. There would have been no need to take down the statue and they could have told the NCAA to keep its nose out of it. The alumni would have "moved on". Just like the BOT supposedly wanted. The press would have moved on. So why did Freeh go completely out of his way to crush Joe's legacy? Why did he leak the emails? Why did he stage the server problems the morning the report was released? Why did he hold his presser an hour after the release of the report? Why did the conclusion of his report bear so little resemblance to the body of the report? Freeh had the perfect opportunity to put this to bed. Instead, he made it go nuclear. Why?
"Truth is not the halfway point between two untruths."
- Ludwig von Mises
http://mises.org/ |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 10:20 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett.
We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake.
*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light. I'm not talking about Corbett/BOT etc. I'm talking about a cover up orchestrated by Paterno - that is absolute b u l l *******. If it was a cover up, it was one of the worst cover ups in history. There is absolutely no way Paterno knew Sandusky was butt raping children and covered it up. It flies in the face of a life time of good works / character. A much more likely scenario is detailed in the Clemente report. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 10:54 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
I echo the kudos to the OP for taking the time to actually look at this case objectively. You are a rarity, sir.
Why do the people who know the least know it the loudest?
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Posted: 3/4/2013 11:03 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
I'm not talking about Corbett/BOT etc. I'm talking about a cover up orchestrated by Paterno - that is absolute b u l l *******. If it was a cover up, it was one of the worst cover ups in history. There is absolutely no way Paterno knew Sandusky was butt raping children and covered it up. It flies in the face of a life time of good works / character.
A much more likely scenario is detailed in the Clemente report. Kind of flies in the face of a lifetime of being personally involved in the betterment of hundreds if not thousands of young people, personally donating millions and raising over a billion for an institution that has done the same for hundreds of thousands more young people, doesn't it?
Why do the people who know the least know it the loudest?
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Posted: 3/4/2013 11:06 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
Any substantial proof of this around. Not doubting...I just would like to see some proof...to jam it up his arse if available. indynittany wrote:
Corbett had the last word to the board before they voted to fire Joe. Later that night, he and his entourage were seen celebrating in downtown State College.
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Posted: 3/4/2013 11:16 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
psengr82 wrote: Any substantial proof of this around. Not doubting...I just would like to see some proof...to jam it up his arse if available.
indynittany wrote:
Corbett had the last word to the board before they voted to fire Joe. Later that night, he and his entourage were seen celebrating in downtown State College.
I highly doubt this is true. Corbett was calling into the BoT meeting, he was not at Penn State. Unless he drove up from Harrisburg that night, which seems unlikely. |
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Posted: 3/4/2013 11:52 PM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett.
We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake.
*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light.
I'm not talking about Corbett/BOT etc. I'm talking about a cover up orchestrated by Paterno - that is absolute b u l l *******. If it was a cover up, it was one of the worst cover ups in history. There is absolutely no way Paterno knew Sandusky was butt raping children and covered it up. It flies in the face of a life time of good works / character.
A much more likely scenario is detailed in the Clemente report. If you want to criticize others of being closed minded, it would be good for you not to be closed minded yourself. Are you saying we know everything? Are you saying that there are no questions left to be answered? Are you saying we know what they said to Second Mile? Are you saying that just because Paterno wasn't involved in a coverup, that none of them were? Are you saying the Clemente report covers all the basis and anyone who doesn't give all of them a complete free pass based on the Clemente report is closed minded? I have read through a good portion of the Clemente report and it does a good job of explaining a lot of their actions. IMO it matches a lot of what indy had been saying. With the information we have available to us today, I was buying a lot of what indy was saying even before the Clemente report came out. I'm trying to operate off of best case scenerios because these guys do have a history of doing the right thing. With that said, there are still a lot of questions to be answered. The story still doesn't make sense to me. I still don't know why with all that they did and with all the measures they took that they did not ensure that the child's parents were contacted. I mean what the h.e.double hockey sticks, they all testified that they took all those measures including banning Sandusky from bringing children to campus because they, at a minimum, thought Sandusky was doing something inappropriate with a child. If that was one of their children, I'm sure every one of them would have wanted to be notified. Why, when they could have just asked Sandusky for the child's contact information, did they not notify his parents? This is why I say I can buy a coverup just as easily as I can buy that they were fooled and made an innocent mistake. They admit in testimony that they, at a minimum, thought Sandusky was doing something inappropriate with a child. They admit in testimony that they thought a naked Sandusky was in the showers alone with a naked child late at night in a locked Lasch Building. They knew Sandusky well and if they didn't want to involve DPW could have easily asked him for the child's contact information and notified the child's parents yet they didn't. Why? So, it is because of this question that I can buy that there was some kind of coverup. I'm not saying they knew Sandusky was molesting a child. It is because of everything that they did do and all the measures that they did take, which I think might prove damning at trial, and the one thing that they did not do (ensure the child's parents were notified) that I can buy that there was some kind of coverup. I'm not saying there was a coverup, I'm just saying I can buy a coverup just as easily as I can buy that they were fooled and made an innocent mistake. I am waiting until we know more information before coming to any conclusion, though. I'm hoping that all my questions get answered. If not, I don't know that I'll ever be able to come to a conclusion on who did what. If you want to criticize others for being closed minded, though, I would suggest that you not be closed minded too. Keep open the possibility that they may have covered something up, even if it wasn't knowledge about Sandusky molesting a child. They may have just covered up knowledge of Sandusky doing something inappropriate with a child.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 12:45 AM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
MarylandLion wrote:
psengr82 wrote: Any substantial proof of this around. Not doubting...I just would like to see some proof...to jam it up his arse if available.
indynittany wrote:
Corbett had the last word to the board before they voted to fire Joe. Later that night, he and his entourage were seen celebrating in downtown State College.
I highly doubt this is true. Corbett was calling into the BoT meeting, he was not at Penn State. Unless he drove up from Harrisburg that night, which seems unlikely. Okay. It was the next night.
CommentaryFight on StateIn wake of scandal, power struggle spread from Penn State campus to state capitalUpdated: April 4, 2012, 7:03 PM ET By Don Van Natta Jr. | ESPN The Magazine .....One senior member of the Penn State faculty recalls seeing Corbett, surrounded by his security detail and friends, at the American Ale House & Grill in State College on Thursday evening, Nov. 10, the night before the regularly scheduled board meeting. "He was just effusive," the faculty member says. "It was like a victory celebration. I remember thinking at the time that it just seemed a strange thing … a kind of gratuitous political piling on." The faculty member, who was sitting near Corbett and overheard much of his conversation, added that the governor "left the impression that he was much more engaged, and really influential, in the board's discussions up to that point.".... http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/st...e-state-capital
"Truth is not the halfway point between two untruths."
- Ludwig von Mises
http://mises.org/
Last edited 3/5/2013 12:46 AM by indynittany
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Posted: 3/5/2013 7:41 AM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
indynittany wrote:
MarylandLion wrote:
psengr82 wrote: Any substantial proof of this around. Not doubting...I just would like to see some proof...to jam it up his arse if available.
indynittany wrote:
Corbett had the last word to the board before they voted to fire Joe. Later that night, he and his entourage were seen celebrating in downtown State College.
I highly doubt this is true. Corbett was calling into the BoT meeting, he was not at Penn State. Unless he drove up from Harrisburg that night, which seems unlikely. Okay. It was the next night.
CommentaryFight on StateIn wake of scandal, power struggle spread from Penn State campus to state capitalUpdated: April 4, 2012, 7:03 PM ET By Don Van Natta Jr. | ESPN The Magazine
.....One senior member of the Penn State faculty recalls seeing Corbett, surrounded by his security detail and friends, at the American Ale House & Grill in State College on Thursday evening, Nov. 10, the night before the regularly scheduled board meeting. "He was just effusive," the faculty member says. "It was like a victory celebration. I remember thinking at the time that it just seemed a strange thing … a kind of gratuitous political piling on." The faculty member, who was sitting near Corbett and overheard much of his conversation, added that the governor "left the impression that he was much more engaged, and really influential, in the board's discussions up to that point."....
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/st...e-state-capital Yeah, I was just about to link to that story. The story is a long one, but I'd encourage everyone to read it all. I think that the Corbett "conspiracy" story has some legs. It's just too bad that it seems no one is really pursuing it.
Last edited 3/5/2013 7:41 AM by Goobis
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Posted: 3/5/2013 8:14 AM
Re: Joe Paterno and the Freeh Report
blue2002white wrote:
kufta4 wrote:
UBUCKEYE2 wrote:
JoepaWhalePants wrote:
kbuckaro wrote:
nit7777 wrote: If you feel this strongly about it, post it on the Ohio State boards.
Most folks here are well aware of what has went down.
But, I do appreciate your comments.
Thanks I have (on the premium board), and I'm getting hammered but holding my own because they are using the typical excuses and asking the same old questions. You've got some guts friend :)
Here's what people need to understand - Nice guy pedophiles can fool entire communities for years and years. It's a shame they won't open their eyes / ears up to this - their own children would be safer if they could acknowledge and understand the Clemente report. To be fair, there are still a lot of questions left unanswered.
Some of the Ohio State posters over there are having a strong reaction to posters like indynittany* who are over there acting like there is no way there was a coverup, that there's no way Paterno, Curley and Schultz did anything wrong and that everything is the result of a vendetta by the BOT and Corbett.
We don't know what actually happened. With the information that's available, I can believe that a coverup occurred just as easily as I can believe that everyone was fooled and the non-reaction was an innocent mistake.
*Note: I've listened indynittany and find some of what he has to say to be credible. I don't buy the Corbett/BOT vendetta, though. Maybe that'll change as more info. comes to light.
That's complete nonsense. It really is. Anyone who has spent more than a few minutes critically thinking about the events realizes that the idea there was an intentional cover-up is absurd. You simply don't go around notifying people of an event if you're trying to cover it up. It is really a sad indictment of society that Freeh was able to hypothesize such a ridiculous notion and most people bought it. Most people don't critically think for themselves. That's the really sad indictment of our society. Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Names. All Game.
Penn State....known to running backs as Linebacker U.
Joe Paterno - the winningest coach in FBS history.
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