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PRIVATES beat publics again

Posted: 11/10/2012 12:01 AM

PRIVATES beat publics again 


The privates need to play with the other privates in playoffs at least here are some playoff scores all won by private schools Alemany 42-14 over Moorpark , Chaminade 64 - 11 over Pacifica, Mission Viejo 42-10 over Westlake, Serra 49-13 over Oxnard these scores are not even close because the privates get hand picked players that go to their private school for free, you can tell which players are hand picked and on a free ride which  are the stars of the team  and which players are paying full tuition and are getting no plaing time. Let all the private schools including Bonnies and Mater Dei knock each other off like Notre Dame did to OC and let the public schools  battle amongst themselves.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:35 AM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 



sportsfanman wrote: The privates need to play with the other privates in playoffs at least here are some playoff scores all won by private schools Alemany 42-14 over Moorpark , Chaminade 64 - 11 over Pacifica, Mission Viejo 42-10 over Westlake, Serra 49-13 over Oxnard these scores are not even close because the privates get hand picked players that go to their private school for free, you can tell which players are hand picked and on a free ride which  are the stars of the team  and which players are paying full tuition and are getting no plaing time. Let all the private schools including Bonnies and Mater Dei knock each other off like Notre Dame did to OC and let the public schools  battle amongst themselves.
Agree.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:40 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


mission viejo and westlake are both publics with open enrollment.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:50 AM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


just for the record...

In the top 11 divisions... the score was privates won 10 vs publics won 8.

And how about these scores:

West torrance 45 St Joes 20
Lompoc 42 St Francis 7
Camrillo 48 Harvard Westlake 21
Monrovia 50 Viewpoint 0
Gladstone 54 Mary Star 17
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Posted: 11/10/2012 6:39 AM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


Work harder
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Posted: 11/10/2012 8:42 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


MV is not open enrollment (I live in their attendance area) but people do move into the attendance area to play there...

What got a lot of players into MV in the past was the fact that the only active HS agricultural program in OC was very conveniently located at MV...hence if your HS didn't offer ag, you could request a transfer ostensibly to milk cows :)  Program was discontinued a year ago, but the animals are still there...
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:03 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


It should be up to any public if they want to play with the private schools.  My point is it is such an uneven playing field, I don't really like it when stuff like the MP/Alemany game happens.  I don't like it when the odds are stacked so heavily in my favor - not my kind of game.

Ventura

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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:31 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


What's the difference in how bad Moorpark got spanked between Westlake and Alemany
Just that 1 is a private - dumb

Again that mentality just reinforces to your kids ( football team) how life isn't " fair"
What's your excuse when little Jimmy gets recruited by USC and they get beat by Notre Dame
There will always be better players and better teams, coach , teach , inspire to give 110% and leave it all on the field and they won't have any regrets
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Posted: 11/10/2012 11:16 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 



805coach wrote: What's the difference in how bad Moorpark got spanked between Westlake and Alemany
Just that 1 is a private - dumb

Again that mentality just reinforces to your kids ( football team) how life isn't " fair"
What's your excuse when little Jimmy gets recruited by USC and they get beat by Notre Dame
There will always be better players and better teams, coach , teach , inspire to give 110% and leave it all on the field and they won't have any regrets
I don't think I understand your point in paragraph one. 

As far as recruiting goes, college and HS is apples and oranges, of course.  I agree with the effort point you made.  But it seems by your logic there shouldn't even be any different divisions.  My point is that teams that can draw from a 200 mile radius shouldn't be pitted against teams that can draw from a 15 mile radius, as a general rule.

If publics want to compete with privates, I'm fine with that.  As a fan of a team who recruits as much or more than anyone, I just don't like beating teams that can only draw from their area.  It's a rigged game and I don't like being on the winning side in a rigged game.  Not fun for me to root for. 

Ventura
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Posted: 11/10/2012 11:31 AM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


My son is a three year starter. Was asked to play up his freshman and sophomore year but declined for maximum playing time. I pay FULL tuition. You're assumption about all the good athletes at private schools is entirely untrue. Being that my son actually attends one of them I can tell you that the "free rides" are few and far between
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Posted: 11/10/2012 11:57 AM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 



frankieboy1 wrote: MV is not open enrollment (I live in their attendance area) but people do move into the attendance area to play there...

What got a lot of players into MV in the past was the fact that the only active HS agricultural program in OC was very conveniently located at MV...hence if your HS didn't offer ag, you could request a transfer ostensibly to milk cows :)  Program was discontinued a year ago, but the animals are still there...
ive heard about that class... haha they did a nice job with that loop hole!
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Posted: 11/10/2012 11:58 AM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


The truth is somewhere in the middle of the to far extremes. There are many stud players who get a free ride at a private school. Are all getting a freebie? No but there are a fair amount.

The 1st round games don't tell a true story between private and public as you often have a #1 bid public playing against a #3 private. Once you get to the semis and finals is a pretty telling story.

The big difference is the ability to re-load every year by the privates. With the new 30 day rule the privates have a huge advantage.

This has been pulled apart so many times over the years and my thoughts has evolved. So here is my current take.

CIF could still administer all of the Divisions. I would like to see CIF separate the privates and publics. This is easy in the populated areas in Southern California. In the more rural areas like the Central Coast a school like Saint Joe should play as a freelance and then place in the appropriate private school Division for the playoffs.

It is very sad when you look at a school like Moorpark who has a great coaching staff get bent over by having to play in a division filled with stud private schools. Moorpark should still be in a league that plays in the Northern. On the other hand Bonnie and OC plus Westlake until they don't have open enrollment should be playing the the big boy club (pack-5)

Over the last dozen years schools like Nordoff have been bent over by Bonnie and then OC  ...... just not fair to the boys at Nordoff. Many other schools fit this scenario. The Mission in with a bunch of public leagues is horse ****, we all know it.

Time for CIF to really make some major changes.
Meow

Last edited 11/10/2012 11:58 AM by Beercat

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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:07 PM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


Paragraph 1 was in regards to the statement that private Alemany soundly beat public Moorpark
When the week before public westlake beat public Moorpark by about the same score
So my question is what's the difference
Is a beat down from a public school more acceptable than a beat down from a private
So what do you tell those boys- the loss to westlake is ok but the loss to alemany is unacceptable just they "recruit"
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:08 PM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 



805coach wrote: Paragraph 1 was in regards to the statement that private Alemany soundly beat public Moorpark
When the week before public westlake beat public Moorpark by about the same score
So my question is what's the difference
Is a beat down from a public school more acceptable than a beat down from a private
So what do you tell those boys- the loss to westlake is ok but the loss to alemany is unacceptable just they "recruit"
Moorpark beat Westlake.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:08 PM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


Any public school that has open enrollment should be considered private. I look at Westlake and OC the same way.
Meow
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:13 PM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


the real acid test is how not how your #3 team does against a #2 or for that matter, a #1 vs. #4-it's how your #4 in Marmonte compares to #4 in the Trinity or South Coast League...

What got Marmonte releagued was that in the last 2 playoff cycles Marmonte teams went 9-1 in the first round-TO, Moorpark all won first-round games.  The question is: how does Moorpark or TO measure up against Cabrillo, JSerra, San Clemente, Trabuco Hills or Loyola?  The answer to that question determines whether the upper half of the Marmonte plays in the Pac5 or Northern.  Lower half needs to be split off and sent to a lower playoff division.

Promotion/relegation, anyone?
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:23 PM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 




---------------------------------------------
--- Beercat wrote:

Any public school that has open enrollment should be considered private. I look at Westlake and OC the same way.

---------------------------------------------

Can't agree with this. Oak Park treated like OC?

Until there is meaningful (non-anectdotal and selective) analysis of this question we are chasing our tails.

22% of second round teams are private... Exactly in line with their composition in the southern section.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:26 PM

RE: PRIVATES beat publics again 


Last year
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Posted: 11/10/2012 1:43 PM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


The assumption that all stud athletes get full rides at private schools is absurd and ignorant. I'm not saying that there aren't some kids who get free rides, but there are more kids who get free academic rides. You have to remember, these schools are a business, just like anything else. They have to generate revenue, because there are teachers and employees to pay as well as all the bills. Most of the schools have financial aid, which results in lower tuition amounts and they have it figured out to a break even amount that they need to generate per student.

Many publics compete with privates very well, espcially in Orange County and even is San Diego. While you do need talent, you also need quality coaching and programming. Quite frankly, most public schools just don't have that and there is talent at those schools that is just not fostered.

I look at it this way... If you can go to a private school and get a better education and not just be a number that is passed through for the school to get money from the state plus be a part of an actual sports or arts program with better coaching, etc. why not give your child the better opportunities.

Another thing... A top program will always attract top athletes too.  

In closing, free rides are not as common as most of you would believe. Most people say that because they flat out can't compete. Don't think that public school don't recruit either. I know for a fact that achool such as Long Beach Poly, Narbonne, Mission Viejo & Westlake all do. I've known kids at all the schools who don't really live in the area.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:26 PM

Re: PRIVATES beat publics again 


Well put! I would like to add that the administrations at these schools can't give out a lot of "free rides".  The football players make up a small part of the student body. There are plenty of students who's parents (the ones that pay the tuition) don't care about football, at least not enough to see their child's tuition go up to pay for a football player.  My son plays two other sports and I hear it all the time especially from the parents of athletes that don't play football.  In order to keep the peace, there is no way they could give out the freebies that some people assume they are.  Most of the time a discount on tuition is the best you're going to get and usually that depends on your income.  The simple fact is that these young athletes want to go to the private schools. My son was in public school from kindergarten to 8th grade.  He went on a 6 month campaign the beginning of his 8th grade year to convince us to send him to the school he attends. Very happy with our decision. He knew he would have a better chance at making it to the next level with the coaching and exposure he would get. The work ethic that he has acquired from the football program has trickled down into every aspect of his life.  He is far and away a better student then he was 2 years ago.  Always had the brains but was a bit lazy. 

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